2001 FWC Hawk how to remove uncured seam seal & repair leaking rear door window

E

erika

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Joined
Jun 17, 2016
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39
Location
Durango, CO
We just bought our very first camper after looking for a year - a 2001 FWC "Hawk" for $6500. We have it on our 2010 Toyota Tundra. We have unfortunately discovered some potentially major issues that the seller did not inform us of, and which were not visible inside their garage when we inspected the camper. It was listed as 'excellent condition'. I'm hoping some of you camper guru's may convince me we didn't get ripped off, and ultimately have some solutions to the issues.

The biggest issue is the seam seal on all the vinyl windows of the pop-up, which apparently never cured. Photos at this link:
open
. It is a sticky, gooey mess both inside and outside on all 4 window seams. It has tons of dirt, hair and grime stuck to it and is tacky to to the touch, no matter the temperature outside. (The camper was stored in the garage of seller so this was not obvious in dim light, plus it was a cold day). We discovered this problem after we purchased camper and popped up in the sun, when the seam seal started oozing on the exterior seams. It is like sap, it sticks to everything it contacts. The seller said they never seam sealed it themselves, and were unaware of any issue. This is questionable given that the glue is stuck to anything it contacts when camper is closed down (bed cushions have permanent glue lines, top of cabinets sticky all over, etc).

Is there any way to remove this and not damage the vinyl? A solvent (mineral spirits) was only thing that removed glue off top of cabinets. I have used an old credit card to scrape off every seam and get most of the dirt and grime and big gooey chunks removed once it's heated up in the sun. I have tried rubbing alcohol & Goo Gone and it did nothing. I put plastic down on the bed and top of cabinet before closing camper in order to minimize more of a mess. We have also discovered some thin horizontal cracks in the vinyl (where it folds up) that may need some repair.

The other issue I discovered on our first camping trip last week was that the rear door window leaks and possible the door as well. It was raining pretty hard while driving and I discovered a puddle of water near the door, plus dirt and water oozing out of base of window on inside. The door was closed and locked, and the door seal looks mostly ok. I cannot visually see why the door windows is leaking. Hopefully this is easier to remedy than the seam seal issue?

I further discovered that the camper was likely not taken care of correctly as there is some mold near the top of exterior vinyl, and one of the bed cushions and cover had mold and needs to be replaced. The camper was very musty smelling when we inspected it, however they had left it closed up in their garage for 1.5 years so we assumed the smell would go away. It has not, and has been aired out for almost 2 weeks. I am very allergic to mold so this added to my frustration in buying a camper in a condition different than we were aware of. Being new to truck campers, we have since learned we should have inspected it much more thoroughly.

Thankyou for any help!
 
Stalking Light,

Thankyou for your reply. That is our plan (to re seam seal it) if we can ever get the existing mess off. Seam tape is a good idea too.
 
Both "mineral spirits" and "rubbing alcohol" are pretty mild solvents and usually don't hurt much that's not a tacky substance.

Sometimes cooking oil can be used to remove adhesives from tape ect.

Last resort. Acetone(nail polish remover) and Zippo style lighter fluid are good for removing adhesives but be very careful and use sparingly. I have no idea how the vinyl will react to them. Might try a hidden spot 1st. But I would save these as last resort.

I would think the seam sealant sold in backpacking stores for tents would work fine. But it will show a film. Normally drys hard.

On the door or any hard surfaces I'll just say don't use silicone caulk. That stuff is good for bath tubs and little else. There are better sealants out there by far.

Murphy's oil soap for cleaning the mold and general wipe down and cleaning of the interior. The citronella oil in it smells great too. Might work full strength on the sticky stuff. Won't hurt.

Simple green as well.

As for cracked vinyl do a web search for white water raft repair. The vinyl FWC uses is the same material. There are some brush on coatings I believe.
 
Thankyou Squatch. We tried rubbing alcohol and Goo Gone and neither did a thing. Mineral spirits did work on the top of the cabinets but we are leary to use a solvent on the vinyl and create a bigger problem than we already have. Maybe I will see if I can find an old piece of vinyl to do some tests on.

I have used the backpacking seam sealers many times before on our camping gear, and yes, they do cure hard and should work fine once we get the point of re-doing the seams. Not sure what happened with this Hawk camper that the seam sealer never cured.

I will try Murphy's oil soap and also Simple Green! Great ideas.

Good to know about NOT using silicone caulking on door window.

We do have some raft repair glue and maybe even a patch.
 
Photo link of seam seal mess (also added to original post):
open


Works best to open in new tab, will take you to Google Drive with photos.
 
Erika, it sounds like you've gone through quite a list of cleaning agents. I thought of a few other things you might try.

First, have you considered a strong citrus cleaner? It's a natural cleaner, and can sometimes dissolve stuff other things don't, and shouldn't damage the fabric, but may discolor it somewhat (whitens things). Still probably better than goo though.

Second, you might get results with dishwasher detergent. It's a strong detergent and yet relatively gentle, and as you know creates a very slippery substance. I had an engine oil leak into a radiator once from an inner cooler built into the radiator, that had gone throughout the engines entire cooling system causing an extremely sticky paste, and no rinsing or anything I tried would budge it. I had a recommendation from a radiator shop, to add liquid dishwasher soap into the radiator, and bingo, it totally dissolved the oil paste, just like that.

One other strong grease remover is a product called "Krud Kutter", found at places like Home Depot. It's useful in the kitchen if it
doesn't solve this problem, it totally cuts cooking grease on walls and ceilings.

Diesel fuel might be a petroleum based product, that won't be at risk for flashing light gasoline would, and is another strong possible idea to cut the goo as well.


Anyhow, several more things to try. Start with the cheapest first. Good luck.

Let us know if you do find something that works.


Sent from my iPad using Wander The West
 
That is a mess. I think the mold in the last pic is just more mess spread out. If the mineral spirits worked on the counter and didn't hurt anything I'd try that in one spot. Maybe dip a toothbrush in it and scrub. Or my favorite a green Scotchbrite. Then immediately follow with a terry rag so the solvent doesn't sit long.

That mess kinda reminds me of sticky back velcro. The kind they give you to affix stuff in your car that melts when the car gets hot.

Another idea. You could try carefully taking a hair dryer to it and see if that softens it enough to wipe off.

The murphys is what I wipe down the whole inside of my camper with occasionally.

Once you get it clean and sealed right. Wipe the vinyl down inside and out with 303 protectant to protect it from UV.
 
Erika-

At the time our Hawks were built FWC was using a glue-backed velcro that was glued on and then stitched (for both the windows and storm flaps). Unfortunately, the glue's melting point was too low for the purpose and I believe that's what you are seeing. See this thread, particularly posts 11 and 22 for further explanation. Please note that it's a confusing thread to read through as it contains several topics at the same time.

My windows and flaps have the same problem and I've not yet found a solution. If memory serves I tried Goof Off, Goo Gone Extreme, and acetone without much success. I managed to get some glue cleaned up at the edges of the velcro but I couldn't get it out of the velcro fabric or the stitch lines. At the time (about a year ago) I called FWC customer service and Brenda recommended an orange-based cleaner called Touch of Oranges. I tried that and it did seem to be a good product for cleaning the vinyl in general but it didn't seem to help with the glue problem. I'm thinking my next step would be to try the De-Solv-It product mentioned in post 14 if I want to go further.

The door-window problem may be the one older models like ours tend to have. The window is sandwiched between the inner and outer window trim halves and is held in place by silicone sealant which can fail over time. Mine failed earlier this year and the window slid down and cocked a bit and exposed two edges of the glass. I just got around to re-doing it a few weeks ago. It was only about a two-hour job and most of that was taken up by cleaning the old silicone sealant from the tracks. Like others, I also made a couple of small blocks from scrap to keep the window from sliding down if/when the sealant fails again. See this thread. And this one. I used black GE Silicone II for mine but you may want to check with FWC for a recommendation. Note that some folks have also addressed this problem by simply running a bead of sealant around the window. In either case, you'll want to use masking tape to avoid making a mess as you smooth out the sealant.

For the mold, you might try Concrobium Mold Control. It should be available at your local Home Depot, Lowe's or Menard's.
 
Try dabbing the adhesive with the strongest tape you have. Each dab will physically pull off a little of the offending adhesive. Will take a bunch of dabs.
 
Thankyou everyone for all your replies! Old Crow, thankyou for those threads, that is exactly it and such a bummer there is no solution. It seems we may have bought a lemon as far as FWC go. I've been seriously considering contacting the previous owner regarding the condition being so much worse than disclosed, and now needing so much work to restore... if I can ever get the mold out enough to not get sick. We bought it almost 2 weeks ago. The sellers were very nice people and I think just unaware of these issues with the camper. Does anyone have any thoughts whether $6500 was a fair price given the actual condition and problems with this year Hawk? At the time we bought it, there were a few other Hawks in this year that were similar price. It does not have a fridge, only an ice box.

The Goo Gone I already tried (with no effect) is citrus cleaner. I will order the De-Solve-it mentioned in that thread and give it a try. I did get most of the big gunk and dirt off the inside by scraping with credit card on a hot day when it was almost liquified. As another person stated, it's impossible to get it off the velcro and stitching. The stuff on the outside is much harder to remove, likely due the different fabric material.

Heading out camping for the weekend. I'll try some of the recommended cleaners next week while I wait for the De-Solve-It to arrive. Thanks again everyone!
 
Bill - I did contact FWC right after we bought it to discuss the moldy bed cushion and the seam seal issue. They did not know what to do to remove it, suggested a citrus cleaner or 303 cleaner (and were not aware of the original issue with the velcro that caused it). Reading the specs and reviews for De-Solve-It, that sure sounds like it will be my best bet.
 
Hi erika,
I too have a 2001-2002 fwc with the glie backed velcro issue and have no solutions for you. For me though its only a minor inconvience. I do have a sheet over the bed so that the goo doesnt get on my mattess sheet. The goo that hits the top cabinet over the couch and counter above fridge i just live with. My plan for a solution in the next few years is to have ATC install new canvas. At that point the camper will be about 20 years old. In regards to the canvas only and to the price you paid, its comparable to what i paid for my Grandby a couple years ago...and has been worth every penny!

I hope it all works out for you.

Jared
 
Jared,

Thankyou so much for your reply. Very good to hear the price we paid seems fair. We are slowly attempting to remedy some of the issues with the camper. We have replaced the moldy bed cushions with a really nice air mattress (Lightspeed brand) that will likely be much more comfortable. I did get some De-Solve-It (Ace Hardware carries it) and it seems to work to remove the sticky glue! After I scraped off as much of the goo & dirt as possible on the inside seams, I sprayed and wiped the De-Solve-It with a cotton cloth. This is the only product that even allowed me to rub the seams with a rag. It took a lot of rubbing to get it all off the seams. After I finished, all the seams looked great and were not sticky....until a half hour or so later when I discovered there was more sticky goo on the seams again. I realized that the product was working so well that it was pulling in the excess glue from the exterior seams (through the thread holes & maybe the thread itself). My next task is to clean the exterior seams with the product, and then re-do the interior to see if I can get all the stickiness off. I'll keep y'all posted in case anyone else with this problem decides to tackle it.
 
Sounds like you are making good progress.

Brand new campers require maintenance and then eventually restoration. It sounds like you are doing a bit of both.

I appreciate your concern after making a big purchase. We all evaluate our decisions after the fact and certainly mold and odours can be disheartening.

Many FWC owners replace the cushions in the camper.

I've actually seen cushions etc. for sale on this site, so if you want to go back to the OEM route it's an option. You could even place a wanted ad as there may be someone looking to part with their OEM for custom.

Good luck. It sounds like you are getting there.
 
Thanks, Bill, good to know about the OEM cushions!

I have no problem doing maintenance on our camper; the issue was that the seller did not disclose any issues with the camper. Had we known, we would have asked for a reduced price.

We spent a lot of time trying to clean the exterior glue mess around the velcro yesterday. Unfortunately, the De-Solv-It did not work to clean any of the glue or staining on the exterior. It was a super hot day here (94) so the glue was liquefied and we were able to scrape off a fair amount around the velcro seams. My husband also tried mineral spirits (exterior) and that didn't do anything. We will have to live with the sticky and stained mess on the exterior.

On the interior seams, they were visually clean from using the De-Solv-It a few days ago, but they were still sticky to the touch. I was attempting to remove all the stickiness inside after we removed as much glue as possible from the exterior. This time I tested a more natural citrus cleaner that I regularly use around the house, and this worked just as well as De-Solv-It. It is called CitraSolv (concentrate). It has been around a very long time and any natural grocery store carries it. It is cheaper than De-Solv-It and smells purely of oranges. The Dsi product has a solvent smell even though it says it is natural and non-toxic. The CitraSolv is a better product for anyone sensitive to chemical odors. I used the CitraSolv Concentrate on a thick cotton rag and it easily removed any of the glue residue on the seams that had been wicked inside. (Citrasolv also comes in a spray bottle but it is diluted and will not be strong enough.)

The same thing happened as when I did the first round of cleaning with Dsi on the interior,... after 30 min or so, the stickiness came back even though they are visually clean. A friend suggested putting talcum powder on the stickiness so we will try this next.
 
I'm into auto detailing and actually sold detailing products as a business. I don't have much experience with sticky stuff. One thing I can say with all certainty is 3M is the king of sticky products. Everybody has heard of Scotch tape and Post it notes.

3M owns Meguiar's. I'm quite familiar with the company because Meguiar's helped me set up my business and when it grew 3M threatened to sue me (long story).

You may want to contact 3M or somebody extremely familiar with their product line.
http://3mcollision.com/products/adhesives/adhesive-cleaners-and-paint-removers?WT.mc_id=www.3m.com/product/information/GP-Adhesive-Remover.html

I guarantee they will have a product that meets your needs (while not destroying the vinyl).

My advise is to skip the home remedies and consumer products.
 
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