generubin
Electric Baja
Yet again, an attempt to decrease protection, open land for mining and other extractions. http://azwmcl.org/blog/general/stop-h-r-1581-the-no-more-wilderness-act
Are you aware of HR 1581?
- Thread starter generubin
- Start date
I hadn't heard about this, Gene. It sure doesn't represent the way I want our public lands administered.
This is why it's important for citizens who don't want stuff like this to proceed to vote for representatives who will vote their interests and vote against this. Don't succumb to apathy and resignation -- it's important to vote -- both political sides are not the same.
This is why it's important for citizens who don't want stuff like this to proceed to vote for representatives who will vote their interests and vote against this. Don't succumb to apathy and resignation -- it's important to vote -- both political sides are not the same.
chnlisle
Post Master
Where is George Hayduke when we need him most.
Yet again, an attempt to convert our private lands for private use. http://azwmcl.org/blog/general/stop-h-r-1581-the-no-more-wilderness-act
Thanks Gene for the heads up.Hopefully we the PUBLIC can save our lands.A letter to these reps might help.
Frank
Thanks Gene for the heads up.Hopefully we the PUBLIC can save our lands.A letter to these reps might help.
Frank
highz
Retreaded
Thanks, Gene. Yes, I've heard of it and have been writing legislators, but I didn't think to post about it at WtW. Good thinking.
Barko1
Senior Member
BS, the Wilderness release act does nothing to sell off land and this is a great case of many environmental groups distorting the legislation to restrict our use of public lands.
“The bill that was referenced is H.R. 1581. Under this legislation, there is no ‘sell-off’ of land. The bill simply opens certain land to multiple uses, while keeping them under federal ownership. The Department of the Interior has studied these lands and has deemed them unsuitable for wilderness designation.
If you want to use your camper to access the public lands in a responsible manner you should support this bill. Many areas were declared wilderness simply as a way to lock up the land without meeting the legal definition of wilderness, this bill seeks to restore responsible use.
“The bill that was referenced is H.R. 1581. Under this legislation, there is no ‘sell-off’ of land. The bill simply opens certain land to multiple uses, while keeping them under federal ownership. The Department of the Interior has studied these lands and has deemed them unsuitable for wilderness designation.
If you want to use your camper to access the public lands in a responsible manner you should support this bill. Many areas were declared wilderness simply as a way to lock up the land without meeting the legal definition of wilderness, this bill seeks to restore responsible use.
I think there are plenty of roads on public lands already -- enough for my use, anyway. Providing an opportunity for more people to drive on more roads in no way improves my enjoyment of the outdoors.
Declaring an area off-limits to vehicles in no way locks it up. On-foot is the best way to travel if you want to experience what an area is like in its natural state. Not physically able to travel by foot? Well...I don't believe that everything needs to be made handicap accessible. I'm not in good enough shape to hike/climb to some places in the some wilderness areas, and that's fine with me -- it's enough to just know that they're there -- protected.
Declaring an area off-limits to vehicles in no way locks it up. On-foot is the best way to travel if you want to experience what an area is like in its natural state. Not physically able to travel by foot? Well...I don't believe that everything needs to be made handicap accessible. I'm not in good enough shape to hike/climb to some places in the some wilderness areas, and that's fine with me -- it's enough to just know that they're there -- protected.
highz
Retreaded
I think the main point in posting on WtW is to ping us so we get active, and at least write your legislators whichever side you are on.
I think the main point in posting on WtW is to ping us so we get active, and at least write your legislators whichever side you are on.
I think you should get the WTW nickname, "Peacemaker" or "The Diplomat", highz!
I think you should get the WTW nickname, "Peacemaker" or "The Diplomat", highz!
I think there are plenty of roads on public lands already -- enough for my use, anyway. Providing an opportunity for more people to drive on more roads in no way improves my enjoyment of the outdoors.
Declaring an area off-limits to vehicles in no way locks it up. On-foot is the best way to travel if you want to experience what an area is like in its natural state. Not physically able to travel by foot? Well...I don't believe that everything needs to be made handicap accessible. I'm not in good enough shape to hike/climb to some places in the some wilderness areas, and that's fine with me -- it's enough to just know that they're there -- protected.
Nice to know there are clear independent thinkers out there.
I thank the heavens above there are still small remnants of our West where we cannot drive, or need to.
I write. Someday I hope we may get a representative that can read.
Declaring an area off-limits to vehicles in no way locks it up. On-foot is the best way to travel if you want to experience what an area is like in its natural state. Not physically able to travel by foot? Well...I don't believe that everything needs to be made handicap accessible. I'm not in good enough shape to hike/climb to some places in the some wilderness areas, and that's fine with me -- it's enough to just know that they're there -- protected.
Nice to know there are clear independent thinkers out there.
I thank the heavens above there are still small remnants of our West where we cannot drive, or need to.
I write. Someday I hope we may get a representative that can read.
OP
OP
generubin
Electric Baja
I think there are plenty of roads on public lands already -- enough for my use, anyway. Providing an opportunity for more people to drive on more roads in no way improves my enjoyment of the outdoors.
Declaring an area off-limits to vehicles in no way locks it up. On-foot is the best way to travel if you want to experience what an area is like in its natural state. Not physically able to travel by foot? Well...I don't believe that everything needs to be made handicap accessible. I'm not in good enough shape to hike/climb to some places in the some wilderness areas, and that's fine with me -- it's enough to just know that they're there -- protected.
Well said!
Declaring an area off-limits to vehicles in no way locks it up. On-foot is the best way to travel if you want to experience what an area is like in its natural state. Not physically able to travel by foot? Well...I don't believe that everything needs to be made handicap accessible. I'm not in good enough shape to hike/climb to some places in the some wilderness areas, and that's fine with me -- it's enough to just know that they're there -- protected.
Well said!
Barko1
Senior Member
I agree that certain lands should be designated wilderness, no vehicles but what pisses me off is some groups that deliberately lie and distort what the legislation is proposing yet wrap themselves in such a sanctimonious manner. 
EdoHart
Grasshopper
I agree that certain lands should be designated wilderness, no vehicles but what pisses me off is some groups that deliberately lie and distort what the legislation is proposing yet wrap themselves in such a sanctimonious manner.
I have to agree. The idea that this bill would privatize certain public lands is simply not true.
I read the text of the bill and no where did I read that public lands would be turned over to private owner ship. What I did read was that because the lands in question hadn't been designated as wilderness, they would continue to be managed under the regulations under which they are currently managed - by Forest Service regulations on Forest Service Lands and BLM regulations on BLM lands.
I have to agree. The idea that this bill would privatize certain public lands is simply not true.
I read the text of the bill and no where did I read that public lands would be turned over to private owner ship. What I did read was that because the lands in question hadn't been designated as wilderness, they would continue to be managed under the regulations under which they are currently managed - by Forest Service regulations on Forest Service Lands and BLM regulations on BLM lands.
billharr
Senior Member
BS, the Wilderness release act does nothing to sell off land and this is a great case of many environmental groups distorting the legislation to restrict our use of public lands.
“The bill that was referenced is H.R. 1581. Under this legislation, there is no ‘sell-off’ of land. The bill simply opens certain land to multiple uses, while keeping them under federal ownership. The Department of the Interior has studied these lands and has deemed them unsuitable for wilderness designation.
If you want to use your camper to access the public lands in a responsible manner you should support this bill. Many areas were declared wilderness simply as a way to lock up the land without meeting the legal definition of wilderness, this bill seeks to restore responsible use.
Agree 100% areas I used to drive and ride to have been put off limits. I rode dirt bikes in my youth and many of the dirt roads I rode on now require you to be street legal. (Slick Rock Road in Alpine C0.) The areas that have not been closed have been paved so you can take a Winnebago to them. (Road to Spicers Rev in Alpine Co.)
We do need areas open to 4 wheel drive use and not closed off except to hikers. The road less act and Presidents declaring areas National Monuments, closed too many area and open others to only street legal autos. I will write my repetitive to support HR 1581.
“The bill that was referenced is H.R. 1581. Under this legislation, there is no ‘sell-off’ of land. The bill simply opens certain land to multiple uses, while keeping them under federal ownership. The Department of the Interior has studied these lands and has deemed them unsuitable for wilderness designation.
If you want to use your camper to access the public lands in a responsible manner you should support this bill. Many areas were declared wilderness simply as a way to lock up the land without meeting the legal definition of wilderness, this bill seeks to restore responsible use.
Agree 100% areas I used to drive and ride to have been put off limits. I rode dirt bikes in my youth and many of the dirt roads I rode on now require you to be street legal. (Slick Rock Road in Alpine C0.) The areas that have not been closed have been paved so you can take a Winnebago to them. (Road to Spicers Rev in Alpine Co.)
We do need areas open to 4 wheel drive use and not closed off except to hikers. The road less act and Presidents declaring areas National Monuments, closed too many area and open others to only street legal autos. I will write my repetitive to support HR 1581.
And remember the golden rule: whether you are for or against it, civil discussion on the topic is beneficial to everyone involved.
craig333
Riley's Human
I haven't read this bill but I will make a comment about wsa's. It does bother me that you can make a defacto wilderness just by declaring it a wsa. Either its Wilderness quality land or its not. Either recommend it to congress for Wilderness designation or return it to its previous designation. I'd think something like five years should be plenty of time to study an area.
Paved roads. Another example of wasteful government spending.
Paved roads. Another example of wasteful government spending.
Lighthawk
Weekend warrior
Well said!
+2
Opening land to many (ab)uses has already been done to tens of millions of acres. Let's set aside a few for the next two hundred years, and then some!
Think of Yosemite Valley, the Warner Mtns. or pick-your-favorite spot and imagine if it was wide open to OHV use for the last twenty years. What would that be like today or in another fifty years? I've seen what OHV guys leave behind and it ain't pretty and it doesn't go away in a few years.
From my experience: Anywhere you can drive, there will be trash and abuse. Anywhere you can hike? Not so much.
Conservation of land can mean not using it with motorized vehicle which means it will be relatively pristine in the future. If it's not perfectly pristine today, does that mean we should not protect it for your grand kids, and what about their grand kids? It seems to me we are in the golden age of 4wd exploration with lot's of amenities plus GPS & internet research. There's very few places left untouched or lightly touched. How about we agree to leave them that way?
+2
Opening land to many (ab)uses has already been done to tens of millions of acres. Let's set aside a few for the next two hundred years, and then some!
Think of Yosemite Valley, the Warner Mtns. or pick-your-favorite spot and imagine if it was wide open to OHV use for the last twenty years. What would that be like today or in another fifty years? I've seen what OHV guys leave behind and it ain't pretty and it doesn't go away in a few years.
From my experience: Anywhere you can drive, there will be trash and abuse. Anywhere you can hike? Not so much.
Conservation of land can mean not using it with motorized vehicle which means it will be relatively pristine in the future. If it's not perfectly pristine today, does that mean we should not protect it for your grand kids, and what about their grand kids? It seems to me we are in the golden age of 4wd exploration with lot's of amenities plus GPS & internet research. There's very few places left untouched or lightly touched. How about we agree to leave them that way?
highz
Retreaded
Something else to consider: There is increased pressure from the large growth in the number of off-road vehicles. As a single example, look at the sales growth for Polaris (in a poor economy, no less):
http://www.polarisin...11-Results.aspx
Off-road vehicles dominate their product line and profits. I can understand, and maybe even support disabled folks using these machines, but we all know the majority of new buyers are able-bodied. Why don't they want to get out and hike or trail run?
The ads and commercials for these machines tell the real story - adrenaline, power, noise... Not an attitude I personally appreciate in the backcountry. I know there are exceptions to this - some of 'em frequent WtW and are responsible good people. But, I am afraid they may be in the minority, based on the number of rude, clueless, noisy, exhaust-fuming jerks I've encountered on the local FS roads and trails. Sorry to say it. I put a lot of blame on marketing and even X-games.
Finally, if more areas are designated for off-road vehicle use and the sales numbers continue to grow, what areas will be sacrificed in the next bill? Where will this stop?
So much for being a peacemaker, I guess.
http://www.polarisin...11-Results.aspx
Off-road vehicles dominate their product line and profits. I can understand, and maybe even support disabled folks using these machines, but we all know the majority of new buyers are able-bodied. Why don't they want to get out and hike or trail run?
The ads and commercials for these machines tell the real story - adrenaline, power, noise... Not an attitude I personally appreciate in the backcountry. I know there are exceptions to this - some of 'em frequent WtW and are responsible good people. But, I am afraid they may be in the minority, based on the number of rude, clueless, noisy, exhaust-fuming jerks I've encountered on the local FS roads and trails. Sorry to say it. I put a lot of blame on marketing and even X-games.
Finally, if more areas are designated for off-road vehicle use and the sales numbers continue to grow, what areas will be sacrificed in the next bill? Where will this stop?
So much for being a peacemaker, I guess.
highz
Retreaded
But, I think I went off on a tangent and it is important to remember that many organizations think this bill is really about opening lands for resource extraction. Certainly, some of the areas designated in the bill in my neck of the woods - the Sacramento mountains - already allow access by motorized vehicles. However, they don't allow new roads, for say, logging (although logging is ongoing elsewhere in the Sacramentos). It's also good to remember that one of the bill's sponsors has a lot of petroleum industry contributions, and one of the bills lobbyists is the Independent Oil Producers’ Agency.
Just sayin' that it's really not about OHV access. That's pretty much a smokescreen.
Just sayin' that it's really not about OHV access. That's pretty much a smokescreen.
highz, thanks so much for your posts. It just reaffirms to me that I'm hanging around in a good neighborhood here.
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