Big Bend, Recreation.gov, always booked?

[wicked1]

I'm trying to plan a winter trip, and this is the first year I'm noticing this recreation.gov crud.. I have been a lifetime backpacker, been to most national parks, etc.. Then had a kid 6 years ago and took a break. And now I'm starting to get out again.. everything I used to just pull up to and stay seems to want reservations.. what happened?!?!? Even national forest sites which are always empty, now say they require reservations.

So, was planning on going to bigbend for Christmas and staying on some of their dispersed sites. They're all booked for months. But also, they're free sites, so there are zero consequences for people to think maybe they'll go, and book the site. Then never end up showing up.

I guess I'm wondering.. Is this recreation.gov stuff real? I really can't just drive around in the parks and forests and find a random place to stay, w/out planning my stops months ahead of time?
What happens if I drive out to big bend, and down one of those loooooong roads and it gets dark? Are there still unpublished options for us explorers who might not want to reserve things months ahead of time?

 

[fish more]

Alot of camp sites were blocked out in the Sierra's as well, due to work being performed in campsites, thinning of the forests and brush. They would block out months at a time and you could not reserve any spots.

 

[wicked1]

I just have a hard time believing they enforce this, or that everyone is on board. I mean, what about the old timers who might not be internet savvy? Are they excluded from enjoying the national parks now? I have never in my life planned an outdoor trip, beyond knowing an area I want to be in. I have always driven in to the park and camped, whether that be dispersed, or if I had to pull in to an established camp. There was always a space for me right then, w/out planning ahead.

I know dispersed is still available in the forests. I'm just having a hard time understanding why all the established sites, even way out always empty ones, are saying you have to reserve on recreation.gov now. I really don't think this was a thing 6 years ago, last time I was going out all the time. (either that or I just never bothered looking, because I had been going out my entire life already w/out booking anything)

 

[rando]

For Big Bend anyway, many of the backcountry camp site have not been available for the past few months so there is probably some pent up demand. It is also a double whammy for camping in Big Bend right now - we are entering the usual 'high season' and then with COVID on top of this the overall visitation is way up. In any year your chance of getting a campsite in high season a few weeks out would be low, but particularly this year.

I agree about the low cost of these reservations leading to folks just reserving anything and deciding not to go, but I am not sure about how to address that. Maybe make a 'no show' fee that is way higher than the usual fee?

I too fondly remember the days when you could turn up at Yellowstone in July and get a camp site, but the reality is there are just more people out in the woods than there used to be. How to address this is a thorny problem, and recreation.gov is one way to address it. Other resources (river permits etc) have gone to lotteries. There is no great solution.

And to be clear - no you can't just turn up and camp in Big Bend, you need to be at a designated site, and you need to have a booking.

 

[wicked1]

I too fondly remember the days when you could turn up at Yellowstone in July and get a camp site, but the reality is there are just more people out in the woods than there used to be. How to address this is a thorny problem, and recreation.gov is one way to address it. Other resources (river permits etc) have gone to lotteries. There is no great solution.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I just needed a little hand holding to help me accept the new realities.

I spent about 8 years in my 20's cruising around the country camping. Yellowstone was one of those stops. And yeah.. Drove in. Camped. Same w/ Yosemite, Glacier, etc etc.. But that was 20 years ago. Though even more recently, like I said, as recent as 6 years ago my wife and I were driving into camp grounds and staying. If Recreation.gov was around then, we didn't know and no one seemed to care we didn't.

The biggest issue for me is the entire idea of a trip changes. It's not walking out your door and seeing where you end up.. Just going out on an adventure and choosing which way to turn on the fly. It's prep and research and figuring out how long it will take to get from A to B, again and again, for every day, of however many weeks or months you'll be out.

I mean, I guess it's not that bad.. we still have most national forests and BLM land. But wow, what a change... I finally have something to say about 'the good old days'.

 

[XJINTX]

If you want to see and enjoy Big Bend just stay in any of the Teralingua area privately owned campsites. You can travel in and out of the National Park and still enjoy remote camping. ALSO you can check out the Big Bend Ranch State Park. We travel to the area frequently and have not stayed in the Park for a couple years now.

 

[larryqp]

Hey wicked1,

I hear you and went thru exactly the same stuff you are, times have changed, go with it or sit home and cry in your beer. So here's what is happening at Big Bend N.P. Normally, 1/3 of the sites are first come first serve. But with Covid, they went to an entire reservation system, but did not add the first come, first serve sites into the system so 1/3 of the sites are unavailable and empty. Add the new demand that everyone wants to be outside due to Covid and you have limited opportunity. I just booked 13 nights in the National Park and 8 nights in Big Bend Ranch State Park, for mid January.

I spent multiple days and multiple times a day on the site and spoke to a customer rep a few times, but got it done. Christmas break and and spring break have always been the busy season there even without Covid. So I decided I would grab any reservation in January that I could. First, I got a week at Cottonwood, not my first choice but that was the only thing available, then 2 days latter I found 2 nites in the Chiso Basin and booked that, a couple of days later I was able to book 4 nites at two different drive-in backcountry sites, then a couple of days later I booked 8 days in BBRSP. It was very time consuming but I'm retired so I looked at it like my job and just did the grind.

People cancel all the time, in fact while I was on the phone, I refreshed the screen and a site became available for 7 nights the first week in January, but by then I had already gotten 13 nights and you are only allowed 14 nites. The customer rep told me that as soon as someone cancels, the system refreshes and the site is available, so it is worth checking multiple times a day. Once you log in a counter appears and you only have 15 minutes to complete your reservation.

So grab a coffee in the morning and get to work, then grab a beer in the afternoon and do it again. Don't forget if you have the geezer interagency pass, you don't pay the entrance fee and camping is half price.

I was extremely frustrated like you but now I'm a HAPPY CAMPER. Maybe I'll see you down there in January, I'll be the guy in the F150/Hawk combination with a big smile on my face and a beer in my hand.

Good Luck and be persistent.

 

[wicked1]

Thanks to you both.. It was a shock at first, but just a day later I have better accepted the situation.

XJINTX (or anyone), what are private campgrounds like? I have only ever stayed in BLM/Forest lands.. Other than the occasional NP or park established campground. But have always avoided the privately owned ones, as I have visions of the parking lot style RV parks in my mind.
Are there decent, spread out, attractive private campgrounds? And if so, how do you find them vs your standard RV park?

 

[Foy]

In my experience, the Reservations.gov is most certainly "for real" and I can't imagine it going away. Some attributes of the system not discussed above include:

While online access is encouraged (and is at least reasonably user-friendly), you can call in also. Last time I checked, the call center opens at 10:00 am Eastern time, so callers would be wise to time their call for exactly 10:00 am Eastern.

Similarly, the online system starts accepting reservations for the first open date within the 6 months window at 10:00 am Eastern. That means if you're trying to book, say, July 15, 2021, the earliest you can book is January 15, 2021 at 10:00 am Eastern. Best practice is to be online in the system a few minutes before 10:00 am Eastern and keep refreshing the page until 10:00 sharp, then try to lock in your already filled-in booking info.

Unless there have been changes since the last time I booked through Recreation.gov (August 2020), there is a modest cancellation fee and no penalty if you don't cancel and don't show.

For my August 2020 Montana trip, most if not all of the NF campgrounds which we were interested in could not be reserved via Recreation.gov or any other method (and, absent some sort of special circumstances, I don't think there is any way to reserve other than Recreation.gov). That meant that we had to rely on faith that an hour-long trip up the access road to Twin Lakes campground in the Beaverhead-Deerlodge NF would result in our finding an open site. We found out the hard way that expecting to find campsites available on a Friday or Saturday was not going to happen, so we changed our approach and entered new campground locations on Sunday or Monday. That worked well, as we did not get skunked again after the first time when we entered the Pioneer Mountains late on a Friday evening. On that particular August Friday evening, all of the 7 or 8 campgrounds along the Pioneer Mountains Scenic Byway were full, and all disbursed sites we came upon were occupied. As we explored on day trips later that weekend, we found all other very remote primitive NF campgrounds full, as well. There was apparently lots and lots of pent-up demand in early August 2020.
Foy

 

[ski3pin]

In our very busy neck of the recreation woods, most of our local campgrounds and rentals are 365 days in advance. Yup, if want to be sure to get your campground reservation for next summer, you need to do it a year in advance. The high ticket spots need to be reserved the moment it comes available.

It depends on the region, agency, etc., if sites are available 365 or 180 days ahead. Another little detail to check.

 

[XJINTX]

Thanks to you both.. It was a shock at first, but just a day later I have better accepted the situation.

XJINTX (or anyone), what are private campgrounds like? I have only ever stayed in BLM/Forest lands.. Other than the occasional NP or park established campground. But have always avoided the privately owned ones, as I have visions of the parking lot style RV parks in my mind.
Are there decent, spread out, attractive private campgrounds? And if so, how do you find them vs your standard RV park?

I've been to the area enough times that I have driven to and by most of them. Have a friend that runs one but she does through Air B&B. The smaller ones are well dispersed and few if any facilities. The larger ones are closer together but have facilities. Even at very busy times we were always able to find one. That said we also stay ay the State Park a lot. Recently I have found some great HipCamp sites too https://www.hipcamp.com/discover/texas/study-butte

 

[smlobx]

We had the same experiences as many above regarding camping in NP’s this past summer. Like many hear we had (25 years ago) just rolled into a NP in the morning and could usually get a spot for a few days without any issues.

‘’We’ll we tried that in Glacier and Yellowstone this summer and got a cold water dose of reality splashed in our face. In Glacier the entire East side was closed due to Native tribes restricting access and of course Yellowstone is completely booked online. My wife did however have success in calling the reservation line directly and talking to an agent. We were able to piece together a 7 night stay in YNP so it is worth the effort.

 

[windy]

I'm trying to plan a winter trip, and this is the first year I'm noticing this recreation.gov crud.. I have been a lifetime backpacker, been to most national parks, etc.. Then had a kid 6 years ago and took a break. And now I'm starting to get out again.. everything I used to just pull up to and stay seems to want reservations.. what happened?!?!? Even national forest sites which are always empty, now say they require reservations.

So, was planning on going to bigbend for Christmas and staying on some of their dispersed sites. They're all booked for months. But also, they're free sites, so there are zero consequences for people to think maybe they'll go, and book the site. Then never end up showing up.

I guess I'm wondering.. Is this recreation.gov stuff real? I really can't just drive around in the parks and forests and find a random place to stay, w/out planning my stops months ahead of time?
What happens if I drive out to big bend, and down one of those loooooong roads and it gets dark? Are there still unpublished options for us explorers who might not want to reserve things months ahead of time?

We faced the same dilemma. After a lot of angst we finally had enough and just went, come what may. What we have learned is that 90% of the time it is no problem. I have always lived by the rule that it is much easier to get forgiveness than permission. Part of our success I believe is that we try to go during off times as opposed to peak season.

We just traveled from Texas to Washington, via née Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and Oregon. We stayed at a couple of NP’s, one private RV park and the rest dispersed camping along the way. Never had a problem although we lucked out and did get the last spot at Guadeloupe Mountain NP. It also helps if you are willing to arrive relatively early in the day.

Luck plays a big part but it always helps to maintain patience and a sense of humor. Go and enjoy, you will find a place.

 

[wicked1]

Thanks Windy.. As usual w/ the internet.. Read enough, and you're sure to find the answer you want.. Because what you are saying is my thought on it too. I can't believe the entire country all of a sudden changed a lifetime of travel habits over 2 years because all of a sudden some website shows up.

I mean.. I'm not a big nationalist or anything, but this is 'merica! We're free to drive out of our driveways and go where we go.. Not some pinko commy nation where we plan every stop of our trip ahead of time!!!

 

[Sleddog]

National Park and National Forest campgrounds being crowded isn't something that just happened overnight two years ago because of a website, it is a growing trend that really got going when the first of the baby boomers started retiring in 2012 and buying RVs, resulting in 8 straight years of growth in the RV industry. These people are often inexperienced campers and usually prefer campgrounds to any sort of primitive camping, the campgrounds get busier by the year even though it seems new commercial campgrounds are popping up everywhere. These people are in general risk averse and want to plan their trip well in advance. The new reservation systems merely reflect the wishes of the fast growing RV market.

Throw in the effects of the coronavirus pandemic and all of a sudden all of the dispersed camping sites were full too this summer. We quickly learned to find a dispersed campsite well before dark in order to beat the masses, the earlier in the day the better.

We rarely travel with any sort of itinerary or reservations and have almost always had good luck. I think it helps that we always travel during shoulder seasons and rarely during peak season. Even though campgrounds show full almost immediately after opening a reservation window, at least a few people end up canceling their well laid plans because something came up. There are almost always a few open sites last minute at even the busiest of campgrounds. And if the campgrounds are truly full, there is almost always some sort of public land nearby that allows dispersed camping.

We have also learned that many State Park Campgrounds are reluctant to turn away a weary traveler just before dark and either have an overflow lot or will find a parking spot you can use for the night. This summer I learned to ask about the camp host site during the offseason when it is unoccupied, it probably won't show up on the reservation website but it may be available if you just ask, we ended up with one of the best sites at a campground that was otherwise full.

I expect the number of extra dispersed campers will decline temporarily only to increase with time as more people retire and hit the road in their new RV. Campgrounds will become even busier, pushing even more people onto public lands. I also expect to slowly lose large swaths of dispersed camping areas as disrespectful camping "newbies" continue to cause resource damage, everyone will be corralled into either pay campgrounds or a handful of "designated" dispersed sites. I cannot express my dismay at what has happened around Moab over the last 20 years or so, but I believe it is the way of the future.

As for Big Bend, we spent two weeks there in early January and asking forgiveness was standard procedure. I have never seen so many blatantly illegal campers anywhere in my life. The park is aware of the problem but lacks the funding to hire the personnel necessary to deal with it. Most of the time the illegal campers were a respectable distance from our legally permitted campsite, but not always, and on our last night there I had to run somebody out of our actual campsite at 2am. It all made me wonder why I bothered getting a permit and paying for our campsites in the first place.

 

[wicked1]

I I also expect to slowly lose large swaths of dispersed camping areas as disrespectful camping "newbies" continue to cause resource damage, everyone will be corralled into either pay campgrounds or a handful of "designated" dispersed sites. I cannot express my dismay at what has happened around Moab over the last 20 years or so, but I believe it is the way of the future.

Thanks a lot for your post.. It's a very 'real' take on the situation.

As for the part I quoted, I agree completely, and it's something I worry about every time I go out.
On my last several trips we have come across nature vandalism (graffiti, etc), and also 'dispersed' camps where clearly a homeless drug addict lived there. There were stacks of trash and car parts and here's the scary part... Cans full of used needles and piles of cut open suitcases!! SO, someone stealing suitcases from travelers to sell off items and buy drugs.

And this is literally more than one spot on each trip, various places across the country. We are sure to come across this same scene of needles and cut open suitcases.

Something has to change, and I'm afraid it will be us 'good' campers who pay the price.

 

[ski3pin]

The reality is our public lands are a finite resource. More visitors, more demand, and increasing impacts require changes. Our land managers work to protect the land and come up with countermeasures to limit impacts but also assure the public's access and use. Change is inevitable and, as is usual, will be met with cries of outrage from users. Take a look at the Alabama Hills for an example. It was once a quiet place where you could easily find a great spot to disperse camp. It is now crowded, covered with a spider's web of user created roads and overused and abused bare swatches of ground. I call it the fire ring capital of the world. Most nights there you will be hit by headlights of other campers trying to find a spot. We no longer camp in the Alabama Hills. BLM is currently in the process of developing a plan to address the increasing use and reverse and prevent damage. I expect it to unfold in steps. It will take time but if the trend continues we will see camping only in designated sites on a reservation system. This is much preferable to seeing the beautiful Alabama Hills looking like Quartzsite, AZ - covered with RV's.

Our growing population is the problem. Management options are simply best expressed by the de facto mission statement of the National Park Service - Protect the Park from the people, protect the people from the Park, and protect the people from each other.

"Something has to change, and I'm afraid it will be us 'good' campers who pay the price."

Absolutely. I'm happy to pay a price if I see that change protecting the land and making a difference. As opinionated as I can sometimes come across as, I do try to take a deep breath and see the big picture.

I am resigned to the fact that in a couple of decades there will no longer be free dispersed campsites on our public lands. All will be designated, reserved, and most likely run for a profit by a private corporation such as Disney. Take a look at all our beautiful places. How can we not see it as a huge business opportunity? RV sales, support services, overnight fees.

It is not the land managers' fault. It is not the fault of politicians. It is not the locals' fault. It is all of us.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Ski thanks,that is very nicely said.
Frank

 

[Smokecreek1]

Okay, lets add some positive news here! Just got an Email from the "Friends of the Nevada Wilderness" that the proposed expansion of both Fallon NAS into public lands to the east and Nellis AFB into the Desert Big Horn NWR has been eliminated from the 2021 NDAA (defense bill) for at least the next 25 years! Know the lands near Fallon well-my old stomping grounds (Ski and the Lady have done TR's there of late), never been to the DBNWR before, now I got the time too-maybe visit the Basin And Range NM while I'm at it too! Alas I too agree with Ski and Frank, all we can do is write those letters, send emails and attend every public land planning meeting you can and support those folks trying to properly manage it for us!

Smoke

 

[Taku]

What we experienced in the NP's and National Forests for camping this year was far beyond (in many places) the use we have seen in years past. As one of our folks described it, "it was like the eclipse, every single day." There were dozens, if not hundreds of new dispersed sites that appeared this year and the agencies could not even begin to keep up with it. I do know the Park had people just pulling off the road and camping in the sagebrush since they could not find a campsite and not having a clue the damage they were doing. Lot's of folks with no experience camping - some good stories about the rec folks helping people set up their tents and showing them how to use a campstove. And fielding lot's of complaints about why the outhouses did not have running water. Definitely a different year!