Blue Sea ACR question

[radarcontact]

Thinking about replacing my stock Surepower 1314A separator with a Blue Sea ACR. As others have pointed out on previous threads, the 1314A will go open circuit if the aux batt voltage drops below 12.7V or thereabouts. I have lots of solar (320W), but in the morning after running the frig and maybe 2 fans at night I'm down to 12.5V or lower. When I drive away in my truck it may take awhile for the separator to connect and charge the camper batteries. I haven't been impressed with how the truck is charging the batteries when it's running. I know I'm limited by the standard 10 ga wire that FWC uses, but I think the separator is taking awhile to close.

I read this chart from Blue Sea:

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/reference/ChooseACR.pdf

I don't feel I need the 7622, as the only additional benefit it offers me is the ability to use the camper batteries to start a dead truck battery - but, this would entail replacing the ACR to truck and camper batteries w/2 ga wire. I run all my electrical through a wiring harness, and carry jumpers that can reach from the camper batteries to the engine compartment.

The 7611 has a lower threshold for the aux battery cutoff, 12.25V when the truck is running, and I feel that would cover my needs, as my camper battery voltage is rarely lower than 12.3 in the AM. What I'm wondering is, will my solar charge my TRUCK battery, if it was low, after my camper batteries are fully charged? When I read that chart I referenced above, it seems that all of the ACRs have the preset ACR settings which, if I'm reading it right, means that above 13.6V solar could feasibly charge a low truck battery. BUT, what if my camper batteries float at 13.5V? Will the solar just cut back on delivering amps like it normally does, and not give any juice to the truck batt, since technically neither battery is at or above 13.6V? If there's solar power available (with my 320W I almost always have some power, even on cloudy days) will that extra power go to the truck battery if needed? I'm thinking yes, but not sure.

 

[rando]

Yes, the 7611 will charge your truck battery from the camper solar once the camper battery goes over 13V (as will the 7610). The term you are looking for is 'dual sensing', ie it monitors both battery voltages when the relay is open.

 

[radarcontact]

Yes, the 7611 will charge your truck battery from the camper solar once the camper battery goes over 13V (as will the 7610). The term you are looking for is 'dual sensing', ie it monitors both battery voltages when the relay is open.

Thanks for the reply. I found a Blue Sea owners manual which had some additional info beyond the chart I posted. They specify 13V for at least 2 minutes for the relay to close, which I think is another way of saying what you said...

 

[Oilbrnr]

One thing to remember here, if you are running anything other than flooded lead acid, which is what your trucks charging system is setup for, your house battery life will suffer running a direct linked relay.

AGMs (and obviously LiPo) require a different charging profile.

RedArc products are now available in the US and this BCDC is going to be replacing my Blue Sea. They do also offer units that have built in MPPT solar charge controllers, though I feel Victron's offerings are much better in that space.

 

[radarcontact]

One thing to remember here, if you are running anything other than flooded lead acid, which is what your trucks charging system is setup for, your house battery life will suffer running a direct linked relay.

AGMs (and obviously LiPo) require a different charging profile.

RedArc products are now available in the US and this BCDC is going to be replacing my Blue Sea. They do also offer units that have built in MPPT solar charge controllers, though I feel Victron's offerings are much better in that space.

I have flooded lead acid in my camper. I looked at the link you provided...that looks like an interesting option. They have chargers for both lead acid and other battery types. I talked w/ Blue Sea today and they told me I couldn't use the smaller ACR in my 3/4 ton, my alternator puts out too much current. I don't want to use the bigger unit they have, takes up too much room in my cabinet.

 

[rando]

There is no issue with you using the smaller units (7610 or 7611) as with 20+ feet of 10 awg wire there is no way you would see anywhere near the 120A current these ACRs are rated for.

The ML series is completely overkill for this application.

 

[radarcontact]

Rando...that's what I told the guy at Blue Sea. In fact, my 1314A separator is only rated for 120A and I haven't had a problem with that particular feature, although I don't really like the way it works. He begged to differ.

 

[Vic Harder]

must i ever saw in my gmc 2500 was 90a. which is another reason for choosing the Renogy 40a dcdc converter... a current limited charger. my understanding is that they like their charge current to be below .5C, or 50a in my case

 

[rando]

Rando...that's what I told the guy at Blue Sea. In fact, my 1314A separator is only rated for 120A and I haven't had a problem with that particular feature, although I don't really like the way it works. He begged to differ.

Unfortunately it sounds like he didn't know what he was talking about. The guy answering the phone is usually a sales guy, who may or more likely may not have a sound understanding of how these things actually work.

 

[ntsqd]

120A alternator on our truck. I used 285 Series 80A breakers with the 6ga. cables running to the camper. Never, ever had one pop.

I use the BEP Marine VSR's. The single sensing first one was rated 120A and the current dual sensing is rated, I think, either 120A or 140A. Not that it matters with the 80A breakers on both ends.

 

[radarcontact]

120A alternator on our truck. I used 285 Series 80A breakers with the 6ga. cables running to the camper. Never, ever had one pop.

I use the BEP Marine VSR's. The single sensing first one was rated 120A and the current dual sensing is rated, I think, either 120A or 140A. Not that it matters with the 80A breakers on both ends.

Is this the one you're referring to?

http://www.bepmarine.com/en/710-140a

Sounds pretty straightforward in terms of operation. I'm having some difficulty wrapping my head around the advantages/disadvantages of one type of relay over another. There are differences. I think a lot of this stuff comes down to personal preference.

 

[radarcontact]

must i ever saw in my gmc 2500 was 90a. which is another reason for choosing the Renogy 40a dcdc converter... a current limited charger. my understanding is that they like their charge current to be below .5C, or 50a in my case

The limited amperage is a good feature. I read the specs on the Renogy, it's easy to understand. The price is right, and it has good reviews. One advantage I'm seeing to the ACR is that I can get some charging of the engine battery, when the engine is off, from my solar once the camper batteries are charged. Having said that, my main reason for replacing the factory battery separator was to improve charging on my camper batteries when the engine is running, so I have to think on this some more. Thanks for input.

 

[Vic Harder]

yes, with the dcdc charger i lose the bi-directional charging ability. not happy about that, as the solar always kept my truck charged during the long cold winter when it was mostly parked for days

 

[rando]

yes, with the dcdc charger i lose the bi-directional charging ability. not happy about that, as the solar always kept my truck charged during the long cold winter when it was mostly parked for days

The issue with no bi-directional charging (which is a biggie for me) and the fact that solar meets 90% of my charging needs is why I have never bothered with a DC-DC charger. If you really need every bit of charging you can get while driving, then the DC-DC maybe a good way to go, but otherwise the drawbacks may out-weight the cost and benefits.

 

[TrapperMike]

Since the original topic was concerning the Blue Sea ACR battery separator, I thought I would post a brief correspondence I had with Blue Sea this past week. Their response is first, followed by my question. Probably old news to most, but new to me:

Thank you for the question. The set point is 13.0 VDC on our ACR. 12.9 on your meter is very close and within tolerances of both meters. So it would be typical for the ACR to combine at these voltages. If it drops even just a tiny bit I am sure it will disconnect.
Please ask if you have any additional questions.
Best Regards,
Blue Sea Systems Tech Support

Subject: Tech Support - 7622 - Small current goes from house to starting battery when engine not running.

Tech support query concerning PN 7622
Small current goes from house to starting battery when engine not running.
When the house battery resting voltage is above the starting battery resting voltage, the unit connects the 2 batteries and allows a small trickle (0.6 Amps) to go to the starting battery. Is this normal when set on auto?
Yesterday, the house battery was at 90% charge (12.9 V) and the starting battery was at 12.64 Volts. When set on "auto" it connected the 2 allowing 0.6 Amps from house to starting battery. I can manually put the switch to "off", but should that be necessary when on "auto"?
Otherwise, when engine is running, the engine battery is at 13.9 volts and current goes to the house battery.

 

[ntsqd]

Is this the one you're referring to?

http://www.bepmarine.com/en/710-140a

Sounds pretty straightforward in terms of operation. I'm having some difficulty wrapping my head around the advantages/disadvantages of one type of relay over another. There are differences. I think a lot of this stuff comes down to personal preference.

That is the unit, yes.

Some are called "Automatic Charge Relays" and some are called "Voltage Sensing Relays". I'm not up on the nuances of all of the differences. Mostly because this unit does what I want it to do. Maybe in the noise the differences would matter to some, dunno. The dual sensing was the one function/feature that I wanted in the single sensing, but wasn't available at the time of purchase.

 

[Wallowa]

So...what is FWC currently [no joke intended] installing in new campers? They install or did, AGM batteries.

 

[Ruck_and_Roll]

Thom,
This is my winter project. My reasons for upgrading are numerous (dislike the trolling motor plug, believe my Surepower 1314 is malfunctioning and I am getting some parasitic drain, and DC charging in addition to my 160 solar). From what I have read on multiple threads on this forum is that this is a very useful upgrade for many. I have a 2008 Hawk I bought used this summer and I've had nothing but headaches with the trolling motor plug as well as getting consistent charging from DC to DC. In August I just disconnected it from the truck altogether, installed solar, and have ran off that since.

I believe I have the necessary components to do the upgrade
-25 ft of 6 ga cables
-(2) 285 80a breakers from bluesea
-Bluesea ACR
-necessary fittings/nuts for the copper wire
-Anderson 6ga connector

My only questions are 1. where exactly have you placed the breakers? Any pictures or schematics/wiring diagrams? and 2. Is it useful to upgrade the battery box wiring to 6ga as well? (currently 10ga)

 

[Vic Harder]

Thom,
This is my winter project. My reasons for upgrading are numerous (dislike the trolling motor plug, believe my Surepower 1314 is malfunctioning and I am getting some parasitic drain, and DC charging in addition to my 160 solar). From what I have read on multiple threads on this forum is that this is a very useful upgrade for many. I have a 2008 Hawk I bought used this summer and I've had nothing but headaches with the trolling motor plug as well as getting consistent charging from DC to DC. In August I just disconnected it from the truck altogether, installed solar, and have ran off that since.

I believe I have the necessary components to do the upgrade
-25 ft of 6 ga cables
-(2) 285 80a breakers from bluesea
-Bluesea ACR
-necessary fittings/nuts for the copper wire
-Anderson 6ga connector

My only questions are 1. where exactly have you placed the breakers? Any pictures or schematics/wiring diagrams? and 2. Is it useful to upgrade the battery box wiring to 6ga as well? (currently 10ga)

I put my breakers 6-12" away from each battery. Under the hood, that means physically 2-3" away from the battery, screwed into the plastic that hold the fuse box in my truck. In the camper, right next to the batteries.

In the battery box, your wires are all so short that there is no technical advantage (power loss) to running fatter wires. That said, do be aware of your max currents. You have 80A breakers, will those 10g wires be subjected to 80A? That exceeds their rating for sure.

The inside breaker is in the upper left of this board in the battery box area of the Hawk I built up...
http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/gallery/image/16961-electric-control-board/

And this is the battery and breaker under the hood

 

[Ruck_and_Roll]

Thanks for the reply Vic.

Maybe I am not understanding or missing the big picture here.

I was going to upgrade the wiring from truck to plug in (was going to do the Anderson plug that others have mentioned) with 6ga....

I'm not sure of the alternator on my truck, it is a stock 2014 Ford F150.

My current setup is completely off the FWC Kit
-30 amp breaker (mounted under hood)
-10 ga wiring
-Anderson trolling motor connection

For Solar I have
Victron 75/15 controller
Renogy 160 watt panel

Everything in the camper is wired with 10ga.

Best,

Luke