California State Parks closing
- Thread starter Ted
- Start date
Closing:
Anderson Marsh SHP
Annadel SP
Antelope Valley Indian Museum
Austin Creek SRA
Bale Grist Mill SHP
Benbow Lake SRA
Benicia Capitol SHP
Benicia SRA
Bidwell Mansion SHP
Bothe-Napa Valley SP
Brannan Island SRA
California Mining & Mineral Museum
Candlestick Point SRA
Castle Crags SP
Castle Rock SP
China Camp SP
Colusa-Sacramento River SRA
Del Norte Coast Redwoods SP
Fort Humboldt SHP
Fort Tejon SHP
Garrapata SP
George J. Hatfield SRA
Governor's Mansion SHP
Gray Whale Cove SB
Greenwood SB
Grizzly Creek Redwoods SP
Hendy Woods SP
Henry W. Coe SP
Jack London SHP
Jug Handle SNR
Leland Stanford Mansion SHP
Limekiln SP
Los Encinos SHP
Malakoff Diggins SHP
Manchester SP
McConnell SRA
McGrath SB
Mono Lake Tufa SNR
Morro Strand SB
Moss Landing SB
Olompali SHP
Palomar Mountain SP
Petaluma Adobe SHP
Picacho SRA
Pio Pico SHP
Plumas-Eureka SP
Point Cabrillo Light Station
Portola Redwoods SP
Providence Mountains SRA
Railtown 1897 SHP
Russian Gulch SP
Saddleback Butte SP
Salton Sea SRA
Samuel P. Taylor SP
San Pasqual Battlefield SHP
Santa Cruz Mission SHP
Santa Susana Pass SHP
Shasta SHP
South Yuba River SP
Standish-Hickey SRA
Sugarloaf Ridge SP
Tomales Bay SP
Tule Elk SNR
Turlock Lake SRA
Twin Lakes SB
Weaverville Joss House SHP
Westport-Union Landing SB
William B. Ide Adobe SHP
Woodson Bridge SRA
Zmudowski SB
Anderson Marsh SHP
Annadel SP
Antelope Valley Indian Museum
Austin Creek SRA
Bale Grist Mill SHP
Benbow Lake SRA
Benicia Capitol SHP
Benicia SRA
Bidwell Mansion SHP
Bothe-Napa Valley SP
Brannan Island SRA
California Mining & Mineral Museum
Candlestick Point SRA
Castle Crags SP
Castle Rock SP
China Camp SP
Colusa-Sacramento River SRA
Del Norte Coast Redwoods SP
Fort Humboldt SHP
Fort Tejon SHP
Garrapata SP
George J. Hatfield SRA
Governor's Mansion SHP
Gray Whale Cove SB
Greenwood SB
Grizzly Creek Redwoods SP
Hendy Woods SP
Henry W. Coe SP
Jack London SHP
Jug Handle SNR
Leland Stanford Mansion SHP
Limekiln SP
Los Encinos SHP
Malakoff Diggins SHP
Manchester SP
McConnell SRA
McGrath SB
Mono Lake Tufa SNR
Morro Strand SB
Moss Landing SB
Olompali SHP
Palomar Mountain SP
Petaluma Adobe SHP
Picacho SRA
Pio Pico SHP
Plumas-Eureka SP
Point Cabrillo Light Station
Portola Redwoods SP
Providence Mountains SRA
Railtown 1897 SHP
Russian Gulch SP
Saddleback Butte SP
Salton Sea SRA
Samuel P. Taylor SP
San Pasqual Battlefield SHP
Santa Cruz Mission SHP
Santa Susana Pass SHP
Shasta SHP
South Yuba River SP
Standish-Hickey SRA
Sugarloaf Ridge SP
Tomales Bay SP
Tule Elk SNR
Turlock Lake SRA
Twin Lakes SB
Weaverville Joss House SHP
Westport-Union Landing SB
William B. Ide Adobe SHP
Woodson Bridge SRA
Zmudowski SB
pods8
Contributors
So all those parks were revenue negative each year?
Stan@FourWheel
Senior Member
I don't know how they make the choice on what parks to close?
But I would doubt that they are closing these parks because the parks can't sustain themselves.
If a private party can buy a small campground, get a loan for the land, build campsites, add restrooms, make the loan payments, pay taxes on their profits, etc. etc. (Example: something like a KOA or a private campsite by the beach) and these small businesses can make it work, there is no reason a State Park shouldn't be able to make it work too.
The State Parks still have costs to run the campground, but I don't think any profits would be taxable and the land is owned by the State so there is no debt to worry about (no land loan payments).
I'm not sure how all of this works, but I can only guess that the State(s) are mis-managing the money and losing focus on some important priorities.
Where can they cut spending that will have the least "squak factor" from the people.
If you stopped health care, people will freak out.
If you stopped paying out unemplyoment, people would freak out.
If you stopped giving out money to all sorts of big programs, the voters are going to "squak".
But how many people are going to stand up and fight if a small campsite closes down ?
Probably not many.
People will be mad and bummed out, but I doubt they are going to march the Capital steps because they can't camp anymore.
It is sad.
_____________________________________________________________
So all those parks were revenue negative each year?
.
.
But I would doubt that they are closing these parks because the parks can't sustain themselves.
If a private party can buy a small campground, get a loan for the land, build campsites, add restrooms, make the loan payments, pay taxes on their profits, etc. etc. (Example: something like a KOA or a private campsite by the beach) and these small businesses can make it work, there is no reason a State Park shouldn't be able to make it work too.
The State Parks still have costs to run the campground, but I don't think any profits would be taxable and the land is owned by the State so there is no debt to worry about (no land loan payments).
I'm not sure how all of this works, but I can only guess that the State(s) are mis-managing the money and losing focus on some important priorities.
Where can they cut spending that will have the least "squak factor" from the people.
If you stopped health care, people will freak out.
If you stopped paying out unemplyoment, people would freak out.
If you stopped giving out money to all sorts of big programs, the voters are going to "squak".
But how many people are going to stand up and fight if a small campsite closes down ?
Probably not many.
People will be mad and bummed out, but I doubt they are going to march the Capital steps because they can't camp anymore.
It is sad.
_____________________________________________________________
So all those parks were revenue negative each year?
.
.
pods8
Contributors
Right but if they bring in more than they cost to run then it is a positive thing to keep them open, that is why I was asking if ALL off those are negative earners.
Right but if they bring in more than they cost to run then it is a positive thing to keep them open, that is why I was asking if ALL off those are negative earners.
These are parks, not KFC franchises
These are parks, not KFC franchises
K6ON
Old & Soft
The problem is the money taken in by the parks goes
Back into the general fund. The parks get a budget
Allotment depending on what the Governor and
legislature decide to give them. In lean times no one
gets as much. It's just the way it works. Sucks
but they aren't closed forever. Welcome to
California...
Back into the general fund. The parks get a budget
Allotment depending on what the Governor and
legislature decide to give them. In lean times no one
gets as much. It's just the way it works. Sucks
but they aren't closed forever. Welcome to
California...
OP
OP
The problem is the money taken in by the parks goes
Back into the general fund.
Bingo. How much a park brings in is a factor, but not the only factor. We have camped at four or five of the parks that are closing. You need reservations months ahead of time in the summer. But we stayed at one in January of this year and we were the only ones there. Even at the outragious price for CA state parks ($35/night ) costs are not being covered.
Sucks
but they aren't closed forever.
You are more optimistic than we are. I just don't see the budget for parks ever being fully funded again. And that goes for National Parks as well as CA state parks. I got my BS in Parks Administration in the 80's. A lack of funding was a rallying cry back then and it has steadily gotten worse. We all have opinions about where our tax money should be spent. But those decisions are made by people that rely on donations. And park supporters are at the bottom of that list. Sorry to be so negative, not my usual easy going post. But as a government employee dealing with the public on a daily basis, I feel confident in saying times are changing. It wouldn't surprise me if they start taking corporate sponsership for parks. Maybe not a bad thing... welcome to Wander the West State Park (formerly the California Mining and Mineral Museum).
Back into the general fund.
Bingo. How much a park brings in is a factor, but not the only factor. We have camped at four or five of the parks that are closing. You need reservations months ahead of time in the summer. But we stayed at one in January of this year and we were the only ones there. Even at the outragious price for CA state parks ($35/night
) costs are not being covered.Sucks
but they aren't closed forever.
You are more optimistic than we are. I just don't see the budget for parks ever being fully funded again. And that goes for National Parks as well as CA state parks. I got my BS in Parks Administration in the 80's. A lack of funding was a rallying cry back then and it has steadily gotten worse. We all have opinions about where our tax money should be spent. But those decisions are made by people that rely on donations. And park supporters are at the bottom of that list. Sorry to be so negative, not my usual easy going post. But as a government employee dealing with the public on a daily basis, I feel confident in saying times are changing. It wouldn't surprise me if they start taking corporate sponsership for parks. Maybe not a bad thing... welcome to Wander the West State Park (formerly the California Mining and Mineral Museum).
RJones
Contributors
Bringing these parks back may depend on costs to put them back on line. Day to day maintenance at these facilities will probably be non existent. If the costs are excessive they may be decommissioned as parks if other funding/sponsors are not available.
mtn-high
Campground Host- FUNKYTOWN
Hey....I have an idea...let's cut more taxes!
Tea, anyone?
Tea, anyone?
griz
Senior Member
Thats bull ****. Assuming the parks managing down there is much the same here, we, our grandfathers paid for these years ago, and over and over. TAXES
General rev. I hate that word. If I go in for a open heart surgery, how much goes to the parks. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to figure that one. I am sure we all do not mind the "user pay" thingy. The other is vandalizm will increase big time, as here. Also was some of the land donated as park use. Some of there old boy's will be turning over in thier grave.
Sorry, but it gets me shaking. We can replace, rebuild, put a man on the moon, etc., but when it comes to land??
Gotta go and get another coffee an calm down.
Have a nice weekend all.
I know, log it, burn it, pave it.............
General rev. I hate that word. If I go in for a open heart surgery, how much goes to the parks. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to figure that one. I am sure we all do not mind the "user pay" thingy. The other is vandalizm will increase big time, as here. Also was some of the land donated as park use. Some of there old boy's will be turning over in thier grave.
Sorry, but it gets me shaking. We can replace, rebuild, put a man on the moon, etc., but when it comes to land??
Gotta go and get another coffee an calm down.
Have a nice weekend all.
I know, log it, burn it, pave it.............
pods8
Contributors
These are parks, not KFC franchises
I know they aren't. What I'm saying though is I'm betting some (if not all) of those closed parks actually bring in more than they cost to run. If that is the case it is moronic to close them just because you didn't allot money for them in the budget. In the end it means that even less money comes in while the public gets screwed out of land.
In that sense looking at them as closing a profitable KFC franchise at least should make sense everyone out there.
I know they aren't. What I'm saying though is I'm betting some (if not all) of those closed parks actually bring in more than they cost to run. If that is the case it is moronic to close them just because you didn't allot money for them in the budget. In the end it means that even less money comes in while the public gets screwed out of land.
In that sense looking at them as closing a profitable KFC franchise at least should make sense everyone out there.
chnlisle
Post Master
From what little research I've done since this was first proposed by the Governator, the cost to run state parks is marginally higher than the revenue the parks "directly" produce. The loss of tourism and the effect on local communities however far off sets that number. Business' and other economies are directly and dramatically effected by the park closures. Worse, the effect it has on people that have no other form of vacation type recreation are most effected. The poor especially suffer this loss. The Golden State has some of the finest beach (and other) camping on earth. These facilities are very much within driving distances of urban areas and the loss of these facilities is really painful to those who can't find wholesome outdoor recreation because of their circumstances.
OK Aaron go ahead and say it.
OK Aaron go ahead and say it.
Alley-Kat
Elder Statesman
I did a Google Search using the phrase, "California State Parks closing decision criteria", I found this web site... California State Parks - Newsroom.
If you click on the first link titled... "California State Parks Announces Closures" it will open a 4 page PDF document with the official position.
I try to stay out of the political arena and I wish the state parks & recreation staff would also, however, this document does contain one liberal bias about the GOP. Why that's even there is beyond me, if the pot would just stop calling the kettle black and get on with governing and making some compromises that would make everyone happy (I think). Don't ask me how I really feel... OK, here's my position... "paved roads, just more needless government spending".
Page 4 tries to illuminate the methodology, however, it's still a bit short on details. I wonder if we'll ever really know the decision process.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Here's another... from the "California State Parks Foundation - Statement on Fiscal Year 2011-12 Budget Proposal".
- - - - - - - - - - - -
On the first page of the Google search I did (see above), I found a Legal Memorandum by the Legal Office for the State of California, Department of Parks and Recreation concerning the closing of state parks.
Interesting reading.
I don't seem to be able to copy the web link, so see if you can find it on that first Google search page (towards the bottom) or search for this document...
"09_15_9_%20California_Park_Closures_Legal_Memo[1].pdf".
If you click on the first link titled... "California State Parks Announces Closures" it will open a 4 page PDF document with the official position.
I try to stay out of the political arena and I wish the state parks & recreation staff would also, however, this document does contain one liberal bias about the GOP. Why that's even there is beyond me, if the pot would just stop calling the kettle black and get on with governing and making some compromises that would make everyone happy (I think). Don't ask me how I really feel... OK, here's my position... "paved roads, just more needless government spending".
Page 4 tries to illuminate the methodology, however, it's still a bit short on details. I wonder if we'll ever really know the decision process.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Here's another... from the "California State Parks Foundation - Statement on Fiscal Year 2011-12 Budget Proposal".
- - - - - - - - - - - -
On the first page of the Google search I did (see above), I found a Legal Memorandum by the Legal Office for the State of California, Department of Parks and Recreation concerning the closing of state parks.
Interesting reading.
I don't seem to be able to copy the web link, so see if you can find it on that first Google search page (towards the bottom) or search for this document...
"09_15_9_%20California_Park_Closures_Legal_Memo[1].pdf".
I know they aren't. What I'm saying though is I'm betting some (if not all) of those closed parks actually bring in more than they cost to run. If that is the case it is moronic to close them just because you didn't allot money for them in the budget. In the end it means that even less money comes in while the public gets screwed out of land.
In that sense looking at them as closing a profitable KFC franchise at least should make sense everyone out there.
Yeah I agree. I just don't like the sentiment that parks should be profitable or even self-sustaining. Many of these parks are there to protect a natural or historical landmark and we owe it to future generations to do so. The cost of these parks don't even add up to a single drop in the overall budget bucket. And like Chnlisle said, there is a lot of secondary economic benefit to surrounding communities (this is especially true in the case of the National Parks). Current trends in "fiscal responsibility" are to strip funding for anything and everything that is for the general public good, while continuing to allow giant subsidies for big business, massive military expenditures etc.
I don't buy it for a second.
In that sense looking at them as closing a profitable KFC franchise at least should make sense everyone out there.
Yeah I agree. I just don't like the sentiment that parks should be profitable or even self-sustaining. Many of these parks are there to protect a natural or historical landmark and we owe it to future generations to do so. The cost of these parks don't even add up to a single drop in the overall budget bucket. And like Chnlisle said, there is a lot of secondary economic benefit to surrounding communities (this is especially true in the case of the National Parks). Current trends in "fiscal responsibility" are to strip funding for anything and everything that is for the general public good, while continuing to allow giant subsidies for big business, massive military expenditures etc.
I don't buy it for a second.
pods8
Contributors
Yeah I agree. I just don't like the sentiment that parks should be profitable or even self-sustaining. Many of these parks are there to protect a natural or historical landmark and we owe it to future generations to do so. The cost of these parks don't even add up to a single drop in the overall budget bucket. And like Chnlisle said, there is a lot of secondary economic benefit to surrounding communities (this is especially true in the case of the National Parks). Current trends in "fiscal responsibility" are to strip funding for anything and everything that is for the general public good, while continuing to allow giant subsidies for big business, massive military expenditures etc.
I don't buy it for a second.
Actually I think its more along the lines of "strip the feel good stuff the public will feel" and then push for more taxes, etc. rather than cut the BS. They do that in WA all the time, the parks are one of the first things on the chopping block because they know the public will step up to keep them open since they like them. Where as if they sliced off some welfare, inefficient wasteful gov. program, etc. the public would just let it go. Its all a game to our "leaders".
I don't buy it for a second.
Actually I think its more along the lines of "strip the feel good stuff the public will feel" and then push for more taxes, etc. rather than cut the BS. They do that in WA all the time, the parks are one of the first things on the chopping block because they know the public will step up to keep them open since they like them. Where as if they sliced off some welfare, inefficient wasteful gov. program, etc. the public would just let it go. Its all a game to our "leaders".
clikrf8
Senior Member
Washington state just instituted a $30 yearly State Parks pass with a $10 daily fee. Not bad and we should have done it years ago. Washington state tried closing some state parks a few years ago and people wailed and promised to clean and monitor, whatever it took to keep them open. We all don't have megamansions on the water like Microsofty billionaires.
Other states have always charged admission and I surely do not mind paying for those parks for a ranger/upkeep/facilities/education. We all need to destress and get away from our concrete jungle occasionally. Of course, we enjoy even more the out of the way places on National Forest or BLM land. For example, we like the San Rafael Swell area better than Bryce in Utah.
Other states have always charged admission and I surely do not mind paying for those parks for a ranger/upkeep/facilities/education. We all need to destress and get away from our concrete jungle occasionally. Of course, we enjoy even more the out of the way places on National Forest or BLM land. For example, we like the San Rafael Swell area better than Bryce in Utah.
California just had an proposition on the ballot that would have added $18 to everyone's vehicle license fee to fund state parks. This would have taken funding out of the general fund and the usual budget battles. The benefit would have been people with a current California plate would get free admission. There were good arguments on both sides of the issue. It did not pass.
Just returned home from the snow in Dorrington. Going through the list of parks there are some around my home area that I will still use even if they say closed. How do you close Moss Landing state beach? There is no gate to keep you from using the beach and no fee collected to use it. This beach like most that fit into this category are used by walkers,horse people, surfers,fisher people,and just the ones who like to sit on some sand and watch the world of waves crash in. The whole thing is bull **** as others have said.Us little people(tax payers) get the shaft and our voices don't get heard. You are right there will not be some big march on the capital over this. There is going to be money lost by these closures. The closed parks will still need some sort of maintenance and protection from vandalism .So where is the savings. You can bet there will still be people sneaking into the closed areas. Using a closed beach ,that doesn't charge a fee is different, but some of these closed parks need to be protected so they might as will be opened and collect a fee to help offset the cost.
I know I am rambling on here but it's one of the few things left for the public to have some fun with. Elect me as DICTATOR in charge and I'll get er done.
What can we all do? Not sure but I am on board.
Frank
I know I am rambling on here but it's one of the few things left for the public to have some fun with. Elect me as DICTATOR in charge and I'll get er done.
What can we all do? Not sure but I am on board.
Frank
Just an after thought. Want a place to hold a rally? May be we could take a drive to Sacramento and see if Jerry wants to go camping . IMO just saying.
Frank
Frank
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