Eye Bolt mounting location dilemma/opinions

[kmcintyre]

Ok, I've wondered about this and had various opinions. I now have a new Ram 1500 and getting ready to put in the eye bolts.

When I first purchased my Eagle (and put it on a Dodge Dakota), there were two opinions on where to mount the bed eye bolts. The front bolts in the far corners. No real controversy there buttttttt, there seems to be 2 different opinions on where to mount the back bolts. a) right behind the wheel wells so that all 4 turnbuckles pull to the front. b) back closer to the tailgate where you have 2 pulling forward, 2 backwards.

Here's the thought process for each.

a) with this setup you pull the camper towards the front of the truck. After all, the camper is not going to fall off the front. It keeps it up against the front.

b) with this setup you are pulling towards the front and back. It keeps the camper from moving forward or backward.

In my original install I went with a). I've not had any issues.

Now I'm going to do a new install and wanted to see what the consensus is (if there is one).

Thanks!

 

[Vic Harder]

Just did mine last month. Instructions from FWC are to have all four corners pulling to the centre of the camper. Eye bolts oriented to make an X in the truck bed. Front corner mounting is not what I heard either. Seems you want a slight angle on them, and a front corner would make it too much of a forwards pull, and not enough downwards. Instructions are available from FWC.

 

[Beach]

Contact FWC they can advise. I added turnbuckle/chain hold downs to my front jack plates in addition to the standard 4 in the bed. Peace of mind is priceless.

 

[kmcintyre]

Contact FWC they can advise. I added turnbuckle/chain hold downs to my front jack plates in addition to the standard 4 in the bed. Peace of mind is priceless.

I should say that FWC and ATC seem to have slightly different opinions too; hence my dilemma.

 

[ntsqd]

Either all 4 splayed out or all 4 splayed in (as posted above).
I don't like all 4 angled pulling forward because that will load the bed floor - front bulkhead junction potentially to the failure point.

 

[fuzzymarindave]

Either all 4 splayed out or all 4 splayed in (as posted above).
I don't like all 4 angled pulling forward because that will load the bed floor - front bulkhead junction potentially to the failure point.

You make two very good points. I go with splayed out. Easier to access through the little doors in the camper and less interference from the eye bolts when hauling stuff with the camper off.

 

[kmcintyre]

And another question....

I crawled under the truck and checked where I think the new eye bolts would go and there is some bed bracing under there. It's basically a 'U' shaped piece of metal that extends the width of the bed. Probaby how they mount the bed to the frame. Could I put a longer threaded eye bolt through that or am I better off just using a 1/4" plate under the normal bed?

 

[Vic Harder]

i think you want the surface to be as flat as possible. Would you not crush the U shaped piece?

 

[kmcintyre]

i think you want the surface to be as flat as possible. Would you not crush the U shaped piece?

that's kind of what I was thinking

 

[ntsqd]

Unless you can insert a spacer to support the hat section to keep it from collapsing you're better off on the flat next to it.

 

[Vic Harder]

Doing the eyebolt install on my "new" 2006 Silverado... and found this video helpful:

 

[oldhotrod]

Having the tie downs all pulling to the front holds the camper to the front but does little to pull the camper down and may lead to turnbuckle failure. Weight of load (camper) can pivot upward under extreme g force (high speed bump for example). Tie downs should splay outward.

 

[Vic Harder]

Having the tie downs all pulling to the front holds the camper to the front but does little to pull the camper down and may lead to turnbuckle failure. Weight of load (camper) can pivot upward under extreme g force (high speed bump for example). Tie downs should splay outward.

Agreed, and that is what Stan said in the video. Either all pulling to the center of the camper, or all pulling away from the center. Did you hear him differently?

 

[oldhotrod]

Agreed, and that is what Stan said in the video. Either all pulling to the center of the camper, or all pulling away from the center. Did you hear him differently?

I was responding to the original couple of posts before the video was posted...and i have hauled equipment much heavier than a camper so speaking from experience not replying to the video...

 

[Vic Harder]

OK, we're on the same page then.

 

[bike4mee]

Hey
I just bought a new 2019 Ram 1500 and will be putting my 2012 Kestral 4wc on it. It has been challenging since the kestral was made for older tundras and low bed rails. I built a 3.5 inch bed platform topped with a bed mat used for horse trailers. This gets me up out of the bed perfectly
Now the delima. Since it sits higher in the bed, longer turnbuckles are needed. I also had to add oval screwlocks. This, with extending the turnbuckles I have the length I need.
Is there more stress on turnbuckles with the camper sitting up higher in the bed?

Has anybody added ratchet straps to the u-bolts and to the camper that come on the side of the bed ? Seems like a little extra sway protection?

 

[rubberlegs]

I'm gonna do a little guessing here, from the thoughts of a retired structural engineer. I've not studied the frame of either camper or truck.

The engineers of the FWC has assumptions in mind when they sized the camper frame. They know where they want the loads reacted. Same with the truck engineers.

Possibly the front of the camper is not sized to take the sum of forward loads when braking hard, plus the extra load from four turnbuckles pulling forward. The rubber bumpers might be the primary reaction point, and might not be backed up with sturdy framing.

Possibly the front of the truck bed is also not sized for a 2,000 lb camper times whatever G forces that could happen in emergency braking (or an accident). It could fail the truck bed and let the camper slide into the passenger cabin.

Due to a higher CG of the camper, and where it pushes against the front of the truck bed, it will increase the load on the front turnbuckles -- which can be a lot due to the angle. I suppose I could draw a diagram of the forces, but will be lazy for now...

Also the eye bolts as shown in the video are hopefully mounted into the structural part of the truck bed. Forward/aft loads from the camper are sheared into the truck bed, then through other bolts sheared into the truck frame, the most macho part of a truck.

Now if you do what the engineers intended, you know the camper is designed to take loads -- forward, aft, up, down, right, left, plus any torsion trying to twist the entire camper (like an accident when you hit a corner, or if there's a lot of weight on one side, etc.).

Like FWC, I'd also design the camper to have forward-facing turnbuckles and aft-facing turnbuckles, as well as left and right. Then you know where the forces are reacted, and can size the camper frame accordingly. With four very strong points capable of taking loads in multiple directions, at a corner where strong frames go up/down/right/left/forward/aft, then you can easily calculate the strength of the frame. Otherwise you are guessing, and every truck is different, so you really don't know.

Just a few thoughts, not well explained and not completely thought out...

Bottom line is I wouldn't pull the camper forward into the truck bed. Do as FWC says.

 

[klahanie]

I'm gonna do a little guessing here, from the thoughts of a retired structural engineer.

...that could happen in emergency braking (or an accident). It could fail the truck bed and let the camper slide into the passenger cabin.

....plus any torsion trying to twist the entire camper (like an accident when you hit a corner, or if there's a lot of weight on one side, etc.).
.

I'm not an engineer. Am glad that you mentioned "accident" twice. There have been a couple of recent threads about the camper falling off the truck and securing to prevent it, but I'd be more concerned about securing against a possible accident. For that reason alone I'd want at least two tie downs pulling rearward.

The rubber bumpers might be the primary reaction point, and might not be backed up with sturdy framing.

I'd hope they are. I wonder if the large gap some have reported between the truck box front wall and the camper front wall is a good idea, if indeed the bumper could be a fulcrum point (like said, not an engineer) in the event of an accident, allowing the camper rear to tilt up more than if there was no, or little gap, (a second point of contact). Thinking the extra space at the top edge of the box could contribute to the rear tie downs possibility pulling out in a MVA.

 

[ntsqd]

We had a 6.5' camper in an 8' bed for several years (5+?). I placed it centered over the rear axle, so we had a nice storage area between the front of the camper and the front bulkhead of the bed. Front turn-buckles were arranged nearly vertical viewed from the side and slightly angled in at the bottom viewed from the front/rear. Rear turn-buckles were anchored with those bed stake pocket camper tie-downs, which angled them back and out.

We had two "events" with the camper held in place like that. First was a submerged ledge in a huge puddle on Cottonwood Cyn Rd, UT, that I hit too fast (for good reason if I hadn't been driving that rig). The camper moved forwards and to the left a total of about 8" The dent in the bed rail is still there.
The second was a small wash-out hidden by a small rise on an otherwise smooth dirt road in the Mojave Preserve. This caused the camper to lift at the rear off the bed floor.

In neither event did I feel like we were going to loose the camper, but in the second event we proved conclusively that those stake pocket 'anchors' should not be used. Ever. I knew that the design was poor, but they were too easy to use. Never again.
I think it is all too easy to over-think this. Yes, there is a theoretically ideal arrangement. Then there's what the bed structure will allow. Choose tying into bed structure over theory. If you can get both then that's awesome, but if you can't then the theoretically perfect orientation that only ties into single thickness, un-reinforced sheet metal is not what you want. Sheet metal can take fantastic point loads, but those loads have to be applied to it where it is the strongest. In the corners or along the ribs, not in the middle of a flat expanse.

 

[DavidGraves]

BINGO!

Read the post above until you understand it.....

And get under your truck and study the underside of the bed till you find reinforcing cross beams or ribs that the bed "sits on".

These cross beams stiffen the bed and transfer its load onto the frame of your truck.

You want your bed eye bolts near or into these cross beams and the turnbuckles splayed outward and away from center about 2 inches as limited by the bed eye bolt anchor locations.

David Graves