Has anyone thought of going lithium?

E

Ethergore

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2013
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209
Location
Southern California
I'm just getting the wheels rolling on this idea but it seems like there are many benefits to going with a lithium battery setup.

Less weight
Less space
Faster charging
More capacity
More usable amp hours
More cycles
No need to fully charge for good health
Battery nerd points

There are some cons like the price but realistically if you design your own system from cells sourced from a whole same vender the batteries them selvesare not any more expensive. The real down side is investing in a different charger and charge controller and adding an energy management system.

Any thoughts?
 
I've looked at those before and thought they would be amazing in our type of use in a camper. You can apparently discharge them to 80-90% and still have a useable battery.
I've always thought the price was way too high. Maybe you know a better source then mine. It was like $1300 for a 100 amp battery. I don't mind spending some money on my camper, but even this was way over the top for me.
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/lithium-rv-deep-cycle.php
 
Most of us with two batteries have around 200 AH. $2399.99 I can not justify.

med_gallery_1903_734_118240.jpg
 
I was thinking about 4 of these wired in series to make a 400 ah 12.8 volt battery for about $800.

I'm trying to find the dimensions but I know it would be lighter and take up less space than 2 golf cart batteries. That's about $300 more but you would get 320 usable amp hours and faster charging. You should also be able to get 2000 cycles compared to about 500 on an agm getting discharged to 50%.

There would still be a cost for a charger, wiring, battery management system but it seems like a system from scratch could be built for somewhere near $1000 unless they're is something huge I'm not understanding.

The battery quoted in the last post is a plug in play type of battery that is just a drop in replacement so you are paying a high cost for someone doing all the leg work for you.

I also don't like those ones because they have a much bigger footprint. Like the size of a group 31 battery to get 100 ah. Kind of defeats the purpose.
 
Kispiox said:
What do you know about shock resistance? Is there any issue there?
Click to expand...
They use them in electric vehicles, including the zero dirt bike, so I'm sure they should be fine but I have not come across any specific specifications.
 
KILR0Y said:
I like the idea, but if I can get 3-5 years out of my AGM at $200 bones, it's mox-nix because I'm happy with the performance I'm getting. It would be interesting to see some actual reports on how they perform in a FWC though... I'll be watching this thread!
Sent from my SM-G900P using Wander The West mobile app
Click to expand...
It's a lot harder to justify the cost vs. Wet cell batteries but most with FWC choose the sealed battery route.
 
Ethergore said:
I was thinking about 4 of these wired in series to make a 400 ah 12.8 volt battery for about $800....
Click to expand...
Can you provide a link to a source of Li batteries at this price?
 
Several observations from someone interested for my camper, and for my ham radio hobby.
1. These are Lithium Iron Nanophosphate which is likely the A123 technology developed for electrical vehicles and probably good
2. Have heard of demos where a nail was shot into a battery pack under load and nothing exciting happened other than losing that cell.
3. For long term life and maximum performance, chargers may need to be able to equalize individual cells. While you may be able to get to 80% charge in 15 minutes (given sufficient solar PV panels, chortle :) The cells need to be managed differently for the remaining 20%. (http://www.buddipole.com/portablepower.html)
4. I would use marine fuses that attach directly to the battery post/connectors as these batteries can dump incredible amounts of amps into a short circuit. (See http://neverded.com/maxx/ or http://antigravitybatteries.com/microstart/ )
 
PaulT said:
Several observations from someone interested for my camper, and for my ham radio hobby.
1. These are Lithium Iron Nanophosphate which is likely the A123 technology developed for electrical vehicles and probably good
2. Have heard of demos where a nail was shot into a battery pack under load and nothing exciting happened other than losing that cell.
3. For long term life and maximum performance, chargers may need to be able to equalize individual cells. While you may be able to get to 80% charge in 15 minutes (given sufficient solar PV panels, chortle :) The cells need to be managed differently for the remaining 20%. (http://www.buddipole.com/portablepower.html)
4. I would use marine fuses that attach directly to the battery post/connectors as these batteries can dump incredible amounts of amps into a short circuit. (See http://neverded.com/maxx/ or http://antigravitybatteries.com/microstart/ )
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I have noticed it seems most of these batteries are made of the tiny a123 cells. Kind of like playing with Legos.

Ideally, I'd like to build our buy a battery box that will fit into my stock battery compartment and then configure the most a123 cells possible into a large 12.8 volt cell. Seems like this would be the cheapest and most efficient setup. I just can't seem to find a nice how-to anywhere.
 
Electrical shorts are the greatest fire danger with these batteries. In addition to the fuses, I would insist on electrically insulating covers over anything that is attached to the battery terminals on the uphill side of the fuses. Dropping a wrench or screwdriver across the hot terminal and a return path would likely create a very bright flash with tons of UV energy and the vaporization of the tool and the elimination of any remaining hair on one's head. Not to mention the very bright spot in the center of vision for a long time. :unsure:

I do think we will see great strides over the next few years in availability of suitable Lithium based battery packs that would be of use to us intrepid boon docking refrigerator users. My AGM camper batteries are new this summer. Perhaps, better choices will be available at more reasonable costs when they need replacing. However, I know that all my chargers will also need to be replaced.

A not too early adopter.
Paul
 
Ethergore said:
Oops. Forgot to paste the link.
http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4-prismatic-module-3-2v-100ah-10c-rate-320wh-un38-3-passed-dgr.aspx
Click to expand...
4 in series will give you 100Ah at 12.8V.
So still a lot of usable Ah (maybe comparable to a 200Ah lead battery), but you're at 700$ then. So maybe double the price as AGM.
A lot of the explosion issues are less of a concern in LiFePo than in LiPo.

I have a bluetop Optima with 55Ah in the camper we bought.
As an upgrade option, I have LiFePo in mind. My battery management system will be this one from kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/electrodacus/open-source-programmable-solar-bms-development-boa
I hope to get it next month, and then play around with some 2.5Ah 18650 LiPo first - if it turns out comfortable to use, I think about upgrading the battery. But this thing is definitely no plug-n-play solution yet.

The solar panel is the flexible Renogy 100W that will go on a wind deflector above the cab (lots of projects to work on ... )

best,
Mike
 
Wow. I can't believe how little I know about batteries now. I had no idea the amp hours don't increase when the voltage does. That really does increase the cost. Makes it a much more difficult decision.

I think I need to go back and edit some posts about my 2 6-volt golf cart batteries making 400 amp hours.

Any posts you see from me in the future will be from a much more humble person. :-/
 
i had initially planned to install a lithium capable mppt solar controller but the highest wattage rating i could find was a Votronic at 350w, so i eventually settled on a Midnite solar KID for the 390w array. (with a firmware update this controller may be able to do lithiums, idk?)
 
One of these days when the prices come down to something I can stomach. I'm glad someone is leading the charge though :)
 
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