How many are towing a vehicle behind your PU camper?

[Durango1]

So in our never-ending quest for the "sweet spot" we're thinking about towing our 2 door Rubicon behind the Ram 2500/Hawk combo. Even though the Hawk breaks down easily it gets a bit tiresome putting everything away to drive five miles to start a hike and then returning to camp at the same spot.

So what tow bar do you use? Braking system? Any and all suggestions welcomed!

Steve

 

[craig333]

Tow bar that came with my Jeep. Looks homemade but plenty stout. No braking system.

 

[Ramblinman]

Durango - is your Ram gas or diesel? I am considering the same - I am wondering how much I am pushing it with 1/2 ton 5.7 chev ???

 

[Durango1]

Durango - is your Ram gas or diesel? I am considering the same - I am wondering how much I am pushing it with 1/2 ton 5.7 chev ???

Hemi gas. And that's with a topped out GVWR with the camper on board. No question that a diesel would pull better. We'll see once I get input on what tow bar to use. I'll test it and report back!

 

[camelracer]

I've flat towed my Jeep for years with no problems. Home made tow bar and no brakes. The CTD has plenty of power but I've also done it with a 318 powered Dodge van.

After popping the ball hitch a couple of times on the trail I converted to a pintle hitch. It's a little noisier but I won't loose the Jeep.

 

[JJ1]

Maxed out GVWR won't make much difference b/c flat-towing a Jeep effectively adds nothing to the axle weights. As long as you're within GCWR with the Jeep, you'll be ok.

I've flat-towed my Wrangler for years with no braking system. I've read that some states require it over a certain weight...been coast to coast twice and several trips halfway across, and never been stopped.

Just don't back up...

 

[coguzzi]

now that i have 2500 6.4L RAM with a Hawk, i have been thinking the same thing, since my wife also owns a jeep Rubicon. I had an 02 Tundra before with the hawk and wouldnt have even considered it.

BUT, food for thought, we a lot of the times took a small motorbike, Honda CT110, on a hitch mount to explore with. might be an option for you. now that i have a 3/4 ton, i can take almost any damn bike i want out of the stable, maybe wifes KLX250s. gotta tell ya though, the laughs per cc on that 110 are unmeasurable.

 

[Foy]

"Mission creep" comes to mind.

The older I get, the more I ponder the legalities of load limits and towing limits. This is a direct result of having operated grossly overloaded pickups, Suburbans, Wagoneers, Troopers, and Scouts for much of the last 42 years. The gross overloads include trailered overloads, most often boats with boat/motor/trailer weights of between 6,000 and 8,000 lbs towed behind half-ton pickups or Suburbans on sketchy salt-water abused trailers without an inkling of trailer brakes. As we all like to say, "I never had a problem" (but boy did I explode some automatic transmissions and burn up some truck brakes!).

Anyway, I envision a scenario where the truck is over GVWR and/or the towed outfit exceeds GCWR or the trailer brakes aren't present or aren't operating properly. Add an accident with injuries (either to my own crew or to others) and then consider how my insurance company may react. In the above theoretical scenario, I think it's a guarantee Nationwide would make every effort to deny some or all of the resulting claims due to my knowingly (or, my favorite liability phrase "or should have known") operating in excess of rated limits. It's entirely possible to have catastrophic financial consequences even with insurance claim limits being provided due to the absurdly low claim limits on most standard policies, but take away insurance and be compelled to pay claims entirely out of pocket would dramatically compound the problems.

For those reasons and for peace of mind for this soon-to-be 60 year-old, I keep close tabs to the actual weights of truck and tow and I'm hyper-sensitive to having trailer brakes fully operational when required by my home state (where generally speaking if you're legal in your home state you're legal everywhere else). I also carry high limit "umbrella" coverage over and above the routine auto policy limits.

Bottom line: a Brake Buddy setup on a flat-towed Jeep is expensive but may very well be worth its weight in gold.

Foy

 

[DesertDave]

With my first setup, a 91 Ford F250, 460 gas, I started flat towing my FJ40. First time I felt it pushing my truck off the side of a cliff when going downhill (somewhere east of Fresno CA) I decided I wasn't going to do that anymore.

In 1994 I bought a trailer for the brakes, and also enjoyed using it as the location for the shower enclosure when camped, the steel deck was great for showering on. It also allowed me to get the vehicle home to repair if I broke something needed otherwise for high-speed travel. Times like when the second cut sidewall with 8 plugs in it got me off the Rubicon made me glad I had the trailer waiting with the tow vehicle.

I have since sold the FJ40 (after 21 years of owning it) and the Jeep TJ backup I had, as well as the trailer. But I still recall that feeling I had when the flat towed vehicle wanted to jack-knife me off a cliff.

 

[Durango1]

Bottom line: a Brake Buddy setup on a flat-towed Jeep is expensive but may very well be worth its weight in gold.

Foy

Like Foy, at 62 I'm all about avoiding unnecessary "drama"! (Insert squawking chicken sound here!)

So I'm leaning toward this braking unit. Pricey but apparently less drama towing and less "installation drama" too. Anyone have any experience with it?

 

[Foy]

Nice piece! No experience with it, but I am totally impressed with eTrailer.com, having purchased several pieces of hardware (most recently a Tekonsha wireless camper trailer electric brake controller) from them in the past couple of years.

We were all young, dumb, bulletproof, and immortal at one time. Now, not so much. Towing legally and safely is a good feeling, and provides little to none of the stress of behaving otherwise.

Enjoy!

Foy

 

[JJ1]

Just for the sake of discussion...

I take Foy's advice seriously, which is why I got a 3/4-ton to start with. That said, the point about insurance companies denying claims rages all over the internet, but I haven't seen a single reported case of it actually happening...or even anyone knowing someone it happened to. Maybe it's out there and I just haven't seen it. In theory, it could happen. (I note that Foy said it was a "theoretical" scenario.) But since it (apparently) doesn't, I would theorize that you'd have to be extra-grossly over your gross weight, and probably doing something stupid on top of that, for it to happen. But it's still better to be safer...so Foy's point stands regardless, IMO.

I should also mention that my problem-free flat-towing experience was all on paved roads. I wouldn't want to tow the Jeep down steep Forest Service roads without a braking system. I still plan to flat-tow the Wrangler behind the 3/4 ton without a braking system, just not on rough terrain.

 

[Foy]

Great points JJ1. I should hasten to add I have never known of an individual whose claims were denied due to overweight issues.

Just 9 months ago, however, my wife hit a whitetail deer while running 75 mph on I-40. Her 2010 Chevy Equinox's front end was caved in and Nationwide totaled it. Their examination of the car was incredibly thorough, right down to measuring the tread depth of all 4 tires, pulling the dipstick to check the oil level for indication of proper maintenance, and examining every square inch of the body for "prior damage". It was primarily an exercise to defend their development of the lowest possible Actual Cash Value (ACV), which the policy contract stated would be the amount they'd pay us if the car was damaged to at least 75% of its ACV (ie, a total loss). Their 20-odd page "valuation report" was delivered to me within 2 days of the wreck. We then discussed, debated, and argued in increasingly strong terms, over a 10 day period, about their figures and whether or not their lowball appraisal allowed the damage estimate to reach the magical 75% of ACV figure which would allow them to total the car under NC insurance law (we wanted the car to be repaired, loathing a need to shop up a replacement). We started off $1,100 apart. Finally, after going through 3 field adjusters and 3 of their managers, we settled for $558 more than their initial figures. They flatly refused to fix the car, notwithstanding the fact that the settled-upon figure was such that the repair estimate was never higher than 72% of ACV

I have never taken the time to read all of the policy contract. I have a sneaky suspicion that it contains language referring to operating the insured vehicle within various legal limits. As tenacious as they were over a < 5% difference in the value of our Equinox, a whopping $1,100, I fully expect the heave-ho if they can find a way to deny any parts of a claim they can get away with denying if the vehicle is operated illegally. Referring to injuries of others may not be the accurate way to describe the potential problem, as the contract requires that they insure the DRIVER for liability. I would not be the least bit surprised to find them denying claims for collision coverage on MY vehicle. Their business model is quite simple: collect premiums, deny claims, nickel and dime at every opportunity, and wage wars of attrition.

Foy

 

[ntsqd]

Flat towed twice with the CTD/camper combo, but flat towed that <-(avatar) dune buggy all over So CA for over a decade. First a '66 Econoline extended body van and later a '67 Ranchero. Never had toad brakes. Wonder what that's like? Neither the Bronc-up or the '84 Xcab push the CTD around like the dune buggy did either of it's tow rigs.

Home-built A-frame type tow bar with rotating lunette & fixed pintle hook for the Xcab, but bought a Falcon 2 tow bar when it came time to tow the Bronc-up.

 

[craig333]

Did I ever tell you of the time I accidentally towed my Jeep over the "Jeep" trail? I posted the trip report from the time I towed my Jeep over this road.

It really wasn't a good idea but they'll follow you wherever you go. Never had my Jeep try and push my truck. Big advantage having a Jeep thats a quarter the weight of the truck. Never do anything that goes past your comfort level.

 

[smlobx]

Good discussion.
I might add that most states require brakes on a trailer if it exceeds 2000 pounds and I would think that flat towing a vehicle would fall under that umbrella.

 

[Vic]

I can't find the article now, but there was a write up about 10 years ago where a California 4x4 club was having a meet in Reno and the highway patrol was nabbing flat-towed jeeps on I-80 just this side of the state line for not having brakes.

I do flat tow my 04 Wrangler unlimited, and I have a brake-buddy. I picked it up on Craigslist a few years back for ~$400. Its cheap insurance, and adds about 5 minutes to set-up and 2 minutes to remove, and I know I could always sell it for what I paid for it if I ever went to a trailer, etc. When I think of all of the other things I've spent $400 bucks on in my garage, this one wasn't a bad deal at all for peace of mind 'just in case'

 

[Old Crow]

Boy, it gets interesting quickly if you try to find a definitive source of info about towing laws in various states.

Brake-buddy has an intuitive way of presenting the basic weight info at http://www.brakebuddy.com/towing-laws . Good way to see how much the laws vary. But are we talking about towed vehicles or not? They seem to suggest they are with the line 'If what you are towing exceeds the weight, an auxiliary braking system is required".

Towing World has a less-flashy map (at http://towingworld.com/towinglaws.cfm)
but much more detail in the individual listings, including a line "Brake Laws Towed Cars"-- and most of the states I checked said 'No laws regarding'. But can we trust it? At first glance, this appears to be a good place to find info. But if you then start reading the reference notes at the bottom of the page, it doesn't make a lot of sense. This looks like a bad import job from a much more extensive database which could be a lot more useful to us.

As an aside, I wondered if there's an 'app for that' for my ipad. That led me to 'State Lines' in the iTunes store. It was a $5 purchase but, hey, I'll skip my coffee down at FourBucks today so it was only a buck. This app has pages you scroll between in categories "Shopping" (various tax rates and time zone), "Protection" (seatbelt, child safety, motorcycle, and bike-helmet laws), "Bans" (cellphone, texting, smoking, radar detectors, and leash laws), "Speed Limits" (defaults), "Driving" (left-on-red, right-on-red, u-turns, keep-right and misc), "RVing" (Rest Area Overnight Rules, State Park fees on Top of Camping rules, max lengths, Safety Devices required (chains, breakaway, fire extinguisher, flares, etc), Trailer Brakes (just a weight number), Max Tow Speed, Triple-Tow Allowed, What You Can Ride in While Towing (such as 5th wheel, pickup camper, travel trailer, etc), and "Alcohol" (where various classifications sold, hours, open container laws, etc.) I note the developer recently said he's doing a complete rewrite and the info is getting a little old. He normally reviews and updates every six months. Bottom line: no real help specific to towds but useful for wandering multiple states.

-OC

 

[Riverrunner]

I've set up my 2014 Willy's to tow behind my truck. I haven't towed it much yet but the little that I have it seems fine. I don't plan on putting brakes on it. In Oregon I don't believe it's required but most of the surrounding states it is. I've towed a lot of different things and the jeep I can barely feel. My boat with trailer brakes pushes more. I spent months looking at all of the different tow bars and brake systems and I just couldn't justify the cost given the few times I'd pull it.

My .2 cents....