Knuckleheads in Death Valley
- Thread starter Wandering Sagebrush
- Start date
CPT Davenport
El Pescador
Frustrating, upsetting and heartbreaking. Unfortunately some will never learn their place in this world. Arrogance and greed wins again, and the earth losses. In the end, with continued acts of stupidity like this, we all lose.
“The earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth.
All things are connected like the blood that unites one family.
Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.
The earth is sacred and men and animals are but one part of it.
Treat the earth with respect so that it lasts for centuries to come and is a place of wonder and beauty for our children.”
“The earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth.
All things are connected like the blood that unites one family.
Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.
The earth is sacred and men and animals are but one part of it.
Treat the earth with respect so that it lasts for centuries to come and is a place of wonder and beauty for our children.”
craig333
Riley's Human
I just saw that before I came here. It just never stops. At least they know who it is.
What Julie and I saw last week in the Park made us sick with tire tracks and a vehicle driving cross country. I'd say forget about monetary fees and make them serve the full six months in prison.
Knucklehead is an understatement, but thanks for being civil, Mr. Sage.
Knucklehead is an understatement, but thanks for being civil, Mr. Sage.
fish more
Senior Member
It's jerks like those guys who ruin it for everyone.
Yes, but I believe we need to be more concerned about the damage to the flora, fauna, and environment. If our stewardship means anything, we ought to be strongly speaking for all around us that does not have a voice.fish more said:
I'm so tired of the (this does not refer to you, fish more) self centered idea that agencies put regulations in place "just to stop me from doing what I want," instead of the broader perspective of regulations in place to protect the resources and each of us doing our part to make that happen.
goinoregon
Senior Member
do we just write the national park svc about recommending higher fines for this kind of thing?? $5k is nothing for those idiots.
Yes.AWG_Pics said:
On another note.
Actor Pierce Brosnan was "ticketed" and a court appearance for being out of bounds
at the Mammoth Terraces in Yellowstone.
Faces a fine/jail time. Nice to see that privileged people will be held accountable.
Don't know what the answer is for Death Valley but visitors just can't be allowed
to go anywhere they want. At least these people who get stuck are caught and will face the music.
And that's not "banjo" and "harmonica"music in jail.
Frank
Actor Pierce Brosnan was "ticketed" and a court appearance for being out of bounds
at the Mammoth Terraces in Yellowstone.
Faces a fine/jail time. Nice to see that privileged people will be held accountable.
Don't know what the answer is for Death Valley but visitors just can't be allowed
to go anywhere they want. At least these people who get stuck are caught and will face the music.
And that's not "banjo" and "harmonica"music in jail.
Frank
PaulT
Need gumbo
One could impose similar fines on the driver and on the owner of the vehicle. Make sure that the owner isn’t prohibited from requiring a security deposit from the renter. Just to make sure the person profiting from enabling the off road vehicle activity shares the risk of bad behavior by the driver.
Paul
Paul
pvstoy
Senior Member
Do that on Indian land and they own your vehicle and everything in it.
Lighthawk
Weekend warrior
Sigh! It is disheartening and there's always another one.
ski3pin said:
Here are just two examples. Saturday afternoon Dec 23rd, we drove out Lake Hill Road inside Death Valley National Park. Our landmark for finding the turn off highway 190 is the large brown sign stating in large letters it is illegal to drive off road. We found the persons associated with this vehicle illegally drove off of Lake Hill Road, cross country for approximately .25 mile, parked, pulled out two chairs, and enjoyed their wonderful National Park.ski3pin said:
The vehicle was also inside designated Wilderness (carsonite signs are in place designating the wilderness boundary).
Here is the Park's webpage - No Driving Off Designated Roads
All campfires in Death Valley National Park's backcountry have been illegal for decades -
"Campfires are prohibited. Fire can only be made in established campgrounds with provided metal fire rings. Gathering wood is unlawful and burning of wood is not allowed in the backcountry. Campstoves and propane grills are allowed in all areas."
The entrance to Lake Hill Road is signed that campfires are prohibited.
source - the Park's webpage - Backcountry camping
Yet every time we camp out Lake Hill Road we find a newly built fire ring (we know this because we've been breaking down fire rings and carrying out the trash and unburned wood from these sites for years).
In no way do I believe these are tourons - clueless tourists. I've seen (and documented and reported) so much of this, that it is clear to me this is deliberate disregard of rules. I am way past the point of being weary of it all.
goinoregon
Senior Member
in portland, the city/county finally enacted some laws on the lawbreakers that takeover city streets and do street racing, drifting, etc. this type of behavior rarely happened in the past. it crept into the city during the mess, reduction in traffic patrols (due to many police retiring, and getting out). Now as things are improving on many fronts - homeless camps are reducing as more options are created, more police back in the force, and traffic enforcement coming back - anyway, around new years our police force arrested a bunch of street racers, and confiscated their cars. in some cases - they wont get them back. the fines - and enforcement of laws is starting to have a positive effect on reducing lawbreakers. in the case of the park, i would love to see a few SUV's confiscated, and donated to needy organizations.ski3pin said:Here are just two examples. Saturday afternoon Dec 23rd, we drove out Lake Hill Road inside Death Valley National Park. Our landmark for finding the turn off highway 190 is the large brown sign stating in large letters it is illegal to drive off road. We found the persons associated with this vehicle illegally drove off of Lake Hill Road, cross country for approximately .25 mile, parked, pulled out two chairs, and enjoyed their wonderful National Park.
The vehicle was also inside designated Wilderness (carsonite signs are in place designating the wilderness boundary).
Here is the Park's webpage - No Driving Off Designated Roads
All campfires in Death Valley National Park's backcountry have been illegal for decades -
"Campfires are prohibited. Fire can only be made in established campgrounds with provided metal fire rings. Gathering wood is unlawful and burning of wood is not allowed in the backcountry. Campstoves and propane grills are allowed in all areas."
The entrance to Lake Hill Road is signed that campfires are prohibited.
source - the Park's webpage - Backcountry camping
Yet every time we camp out Lake Hill Road we find a newly built fire ring (we know this because we've been breaking down fire rings and carrying out the trash and unburned wood from these sites for years).
In no way do I believe these are tourons - clueless tourists. I've seen (and documented and reported) so much of this, that it is clear to me this is deliberate disregard of rules. I am way past the point of being weary of it all.
I break down fire rings and disperse the ashes and charcoal as well. On our last trip to southern Utah some scofflaws had built a fire ring in the middle of the backcountry road. I removed it as well. Willful idiots thumbing their noses at perceived authority like common small children. How sad and meager it is to be such people. They are often the first to proclaim their grievances against any perceived curtailment of their freedumb!
I am chuckling to myself about the thought of a bunch of us 70+ year olds out doing some monkeywrenching! But, I am sure none of us would ever stoop to messing with some willful ignoramous' unattended vehicle would we? Nah. Perish the thought!
indeed, Perish the thought!
There has to be another way.
There has to be another way.
Monetary fines are no deterrent to some people but none of us has an excess of time.
My solution is community service: 80 - 120 hours of cleaning up what you messed up (if possible) at your own expense or other menial tasks in the park.
As in this case (willful disregarding well posted prohibitions), confiscation of vehicle and possible jail time with community service to follow.
My solution is community service: 80 - 120 hours of cleaning up what you messed up (if possible) at your own expense or other menial tasks in the park.
As in this case (willful disregarding well posted prohibitions), confiscation of vehicle and possible jail time with community service to follow.
