Looking for someone with some expert climbing experience for advocacy event

[DirtyDog]

Ted has been in contact with Lava Beds National Monument and has discussed the possibility of having a WTW volunteer event there. One potential option is to get the trash out of the Fleener Chimneys. This is going to involve someone descending into the chiimneys on a rope. The NM staff isn't going to sign off on this unless we can find someone with some expert and documented climbing experience. If anyone here fits that bill or knows someone, this may be a really interesting opportunity to climb in a national monument in a spot that would usually be off limits.

I may be able to convince a local person to show up for the climbing part of the job.

If you aren't a climber, but you would be interested in participating in a Lava Beds advocacy project anyway, please post up and let me know.

 

[SunMan]

Calling Lighthawk to the white courtesy phone....

 

[Ted]

Thanks for the opening post, DD. Here is a little more detail. The attached picture is of the interpretive sign at the Fleener Chimneys. Notice that one of them was cleared by volunteers about twenty years ago. What we are proposing is to clear the other one. We are talking about something 10-15 feet in diameter and about 50 feet deep. Currently we could get in and out using an extension ladder. But as we make progress, it would be necessary to rappel into the chimney and climb out.

Notice that the first group took a year to do the project. I'm thinking that with two people in the chimney and four hauling and dumping buckets we could do this over several holiday weekends give or take. Or, if enough people show up, we may be able to bang this out in a few days. There is a campground and boondocking nearby if that would be preferred. I realize this is a remote place and would probably work better for the NorCal and Oregon members, but it just seemed like something that would be cool to do.

I have done some rappeling for recreation but the LBNM staff prefers entering the chimney is done by experienced climbers. I can provide hard hats, five gallon buckets, and of course some food and drink (the latter for camp only, not on the project site). A few ropes, maybe an easy up for shade, some volunteers and we are good to go. What say ye, people?

 

[MarkBC]

I've rappelled many, many, times as part of rock-climbing over the years (mostly a while ago, but as recently as a year ago), and I feel completely comfortable/competent doing it...but I don't know if my experience is "documented" or what constitutes an "expert"...

How difficult is the climb out? Just wondering if "expert" means compared to the average citizen or "expert" among rock climbers, i.e., is the real trick climbing out rather than the rappel down? Is it way-overhung down inside requiring gnarly-dude fingers to ascend...or are the walls vertical (or less) with big ladder-like jug-holds?

I'm interested in helping with this (depending on "when", I guess), I'm comfortable with rappelling and comfortable with easy-moderate climbing (assuming the ascent is belayed) and have harness, shoes, gear, etc.
- Mark

 

[Lighthawk]

Calling Lighthawk to the white courtesy phone....

Uh thanks, Sunni All volunteers take a quick step backward.

DD, I've done my share of climbing and still have gear including ascenders/etriers/bosuns seat, etc. I have no idea of documenting my skill, other than to present a climbing resume. I think Ted has the right idea to hit the project with buckets & ropes. Probably the main danger will be the risk of knocking stuff down on the guy down in the chimney. I'm working under the impression that access is from the top.

Do we have a proposed date for this event. I might be able to make it but have a few other must-do's on my fall list (Soldier Mdws.)

 

[Ted]

Here are pictures looking onto the two chimneys. The first is the cleared out one, the second is the one we are proposing to clear. I see no reason why anyone couldn't simply use ascenders to climb out. No free climbing or hands on rock climbing here. To be honest, this seems about as easy as they come, we just need to appease the LBNM staff. To that end, he did not say what, if any, verification was needed. He was just concerned that those entering the chimney were experienced. I will contact him again and try to pin this down more.
To answer a few questions:
MarkBC - yes it is vertical. I would say two on a scale of 1-10. No shoes, etc. necessary. Just ascenders and it would probably take less than a minute. Again, this is only once we have made significant progress clearing the chimney. Currently I would guess it is only about eight feet deep due to the debris in it.
Lighthawk - access is from the top. I don't recall any loose stuff at the top - all hardened lava. My reasoning for hard hats is in case a bucket spills while being hauled out. As to a schedule, the person I am in touch with needs to find out if this project is acceptable to the NPS yet. Considering that and the organization involved on our end if and when approved, I would probably wait until spring for our first shot at this. So no hurry.

 

[MarkBC]

Cool, thanks for the update/clarification. Keep us informed of if/when.

 

[ntsqd]

Used to be an Alpine shop on Hwy 20 in Bend just on the western flank of Pilot Butte. If they're still around I'll bet they can turn up some helpful folks. Was a guy in the Bend area named Lee (last name unkwn) who taught climbing (thru COCC?), as well as being one of the fire fighting hot shots crew, but I think he, um.... , flamed out. Used to meet on Weds eves in the summer to climb some of the local spots - mostly out on the road to Mt. Bachelor and the spur that heads over towards the small falls on the Deschutes. HTH

 

[MarkBC]

Used to be an Alpine shop on Hwy 20 in Bend just on the western flank of Pilot Butte. If they're still around I'll bet they can turn up some helpful folks. Was a guy in the Bend area named Lee (last name unkwn) who taught climbing (thru COCC?), as well as being one of the fire fighting hot shots crew, but I think he, um.... , flamed out. Used to meet on Weds eves in the summer to climb some of the local spots - mostly out on the road to Mt. Bachelor and the spur that heads over towards the small falls on the Deschutes. HTH

ntsqd -
I just-now sent you a PM -- related to this ancient Bend climbing history.

- Mark

 

[pods8]

If we're talking next spring as Ted appears to be I could probably attend something like this with enough forward notice (as it appears there would be). I don't have "expert" credentials but I'm quite adequate for the situation required: Knowledge/experience of setting a safe/redundant anchor, safety knowledge/experience of harness/gear/belaying, knowledge/experience on ascending a rope out of a hole (assuming just climbing out isn't feasible).

I haven't been climbing much since my son was born last year but I basically spent 04'-09' doing a fair amount of sport climbing (& some mountaineering) on the weekends. I can discuss ropes/anchor with any authoritative party as needed.

(Gear available: 200m climbing rope, my personal harness, plenty of slings/webbing/carabiners/cordage for anchors, some cams/chocks for anchors (and I could borrow more), three plain white "ping pong ball" style climbing helmets)

From my quick perspective you'd basically need a safe anchor/rope setup for the "hole" guys to get in/out, which is fairly easy. However if you're hauling a bunch of rocks out via bucket you'll probably want a tripod/pulley type setup over the hole for cleanly lifting stuff out so you're not dragging the rope against the abrasive rock (a different rope that for the climbers by the way).

Also one consideration you likely don't want to hear: From an OSHA perspective this would be considered a "confined space" and have potential atmospheric hazards since a gas could potentially displace the oxygen in a hole or the oxygen in the hole could be used up and drop off.

 

[Ted]

Thank you for the willingness to help with this project and describing your climbing experience. As there is no "certification" for climbing, here is what LBNM staff stated would be required of those entering the chimneys and the actual rock removal:

For projects taking place in monument caves that involve vertical work,
participants need to have skills and experience with SRT. SRT stands for
single rope techniques. This is not the same as rock climbing. We use
static rope, not dynamic, as there would be no free climbing involved. A
belay can be used but is not generally necessary with vertical caving
because climbers are not in a position to take a fall since it is a fixed
line. Anyone doing rope work needs to be rappelling with a rack or bobbin
style descender (i.e., no ATCs or Figure-8s) and use mechanical ascenders
for climbing up the fixed line. Participants need to be capable of
performing a change-over on rope. Someone involved with the project would
need to be experienced with rigging and able to safely rig the main line
with primary and backup anchors. For this particular project, a haul
system with progress capture would need to be rigged. We have the in-house
expertise for all of this, but if you were to work on this project, we
would need to know that your group has this level of experience, as our
staff would not be able to be present at all times to oversee the technical
portions.

Also, a little bit more on the timeline of this potential project. For those of you that think government bureaucracies exist only to drive people crazy, there are even more requirements for government workers (trust me on this). This project needs to meet compliance requirements and be justified as a restoration project before we can proceed. This process will be handled by the LBNM staff. Frankly, they already had a job to do before I approached them with this, so this is not their priority. So it won't be happening this calendar year for sure. Admittedly, I didn't realize this much effort would be necessary to set up this project. To this end, we are proceeding with efforts to get this project going, but LBNM staff is aware that we will be open to other suggested projects that may be of higher priority to them or require less regulatory effort or needed skills.

I will let you know of any developments as they come in. Thanks again.

 

[DirtyDog]

Thanks for the update Ted, and your work on this project. We'll get something figured out.

 

[Nimbl Vehicles]

I climb stairs does that count???

 

[Marc]

I climb stairs does that count???



No ... You fall down Stairs, fall into fire-pits etc, etc.