Need Better Angle for Tie Downs

[Dadocut]

Hi,

I bought used a 2013 F250 with a 2015 Hallmark Guanella. It has Torklift tiedowns front and rear. Unfortunately they let the camper slide backwards on steep uphill climbs. The front are spring loaded and the rear are not. It's all installed according to Torklift's specs: rears are snug, front tightened so the spring compresses by 1/4". The camper is on a rubber like mat. Here's a photo of the original tie downs. Note the front tie down is vertical.

The problem is the camper will slide backwards several inches after climbing steep hills. Of course it will slide back into position once I hit the brakes going downhill, but that can't be good for the camper. After a bumpy ride up to the top of Pleasant Canyon in Death valley the camper had slid backwards about 6":

To fix this I moved the camper's tie down attachment point so it was about 6" inches behind the bed mounted tie down point.. I welded some 1/8" angle iron and it worked well for a few days. The 1/8" angle iron just isn't stout enough and the tie down deformed (and one broke due to my low quality welding skills!). Fortunately I designed it so I could swap back the old tie down brackets in the field.

What's a better way to to attach the torklift turnbuckles to my camper's existing jack mount points?

I was considering using 1/4" steel plate and doing something like this:

I'll add some gussets too to resist any bending. Pardon my drafting skills, the upper drawing is the outside view on the driver's side while the lower drawing is the inside view of the passenger side.

I'm curious how others have solved this problem. I'm sure anyone with vertical tie downs would have a similar problem.

Thanks for your help,

DadoCut

 

[Happyjax]

I like the idea! I'm sure someone here will have knowledge on an alternative bracket. Good luck

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

If it were my truck and camper, I would quit using the front bed attached mounts, and get frame mounted TorkLift tie downs. Second, I would replace the turnbuckles with FastGuns. If there was still an angle issue, I would weld sturdy extensions onto the frame mounted tie downs.

Edit: I just noticed I was remiss in not welcoming you to WTW, apologies. It looks like you have a nice truck and camper, welcome to the forum!

 

[Dadocut]

Thanks for the welcome Sagebrush.

How would FastGuns be any different from the torklift turnbuckles? (Other than easier to tighten/loosen)

Adding metal to the bed-attached happijac tie-down mount could work. I hadn't considered that earlier. I could get about 5" of forward offset. The happijacs are bent-up 3/16" sheet metal. Not easy to attach to, but I it could certainly be done.

Changing out the bed mounted happijacs for frame mounted torklift doesn't seem as appealing. I had to modify the rear frame-mount TorkLift tie-downs already. Previously they stuck out way too far and I found it would occasionally hit rocks along the path. I had to trim the slide-in part and drill new hitch pin holes. Besides, adding them in front would interfere with the running board unless they're as far forward as the happijacks.. And while my truck is dent free (plenty of pin striping though) I've mangled both running boards pretty well. Fortunately I can jump on them to bend them roughly back into shape. I definitely don't need more things sticking out on the bottom sides of my truck. It's a 156" wheelbase and there's big rocks down there!

Thanks

 

[JaSAn]

​The first thing I would do is contact Hallmark. Explain your problem and see what they recommend. I would also ask if the jack mounts can handle a twisting load.

The first thing I noticed is that the turnbuckle is poorly attached to the front jack bracket. The intermediate plate will rotate and loosen the turnbuckle. It needs at least 2 bolts to keep it from rotating.
Could you add an eyebolt to the front of the camper similar to what is in the rear? (ask Hallmark)
My concern with the bracket you designed is that it will impart a large twisting force on the front jack bracket.

Second, you could get some forward pull by moving the back turnbuckle to the rear jack bracket.

It's ghetto, but you could add a turnbuckle from the happyjack bracket in front to the rear camper eyebolt.

 

[Dadocut]

Hi JaSAn, Good idea, I'll give Hallmark a call. The intermediate plate you reference is, as far as I know, what Hallmark provided. It can't rotate out of position as downward force on the plate pushes it tighter into the metal jack bracket. The bracket can't even lineup with two bolt holes on the metal jack bracket.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

“How would FastGuns be any different from the torklift turnbuckles? (Other than easier to tighten/loosen)”

The old turnbuckles that my first camper came with had springs that allowed more movement than I wanted. As you noted, once adjusted the first time, they’re much easier to use.

 

[2trout]

My opinion is it may not be your torklift products, but the location of the mounting brackets on the camper. Move the rear bracket forward, so it is not straight above the rear frame attachment. Find a mounting bracket for the front of the camper and attach it in a similar as the rear bracket. Your Idea looked good, just attach to the plywood the same as the rear.


trout

 

[Dadocut]

Hi Folks, I spoke with Matt at Hallmark today and he said not to attach the tiedown to the camper anyplace other than the current metal jack mounts. I.e. attaching the front tie-down to the underside plywood in the same manner as the rear tie-down would tear the camper apart.

He felt a few inches of offset from vertical would be OK as long as the attachment is made to the current metal jack mounts. As Jasan pointed out such an offset creates a rotational force on the metal jack mounts. The mounts are attached to the wood framing with screws in both the North/South and East/West directions (for lack of a better term) so hopefully they can withstand the rotational force. I'll keep an eye out for any pullout in the screws.

So now I have to pick between moving the upper tie-down attach point towards the rear (i.e. the drawing I posted above) or moving the lower tie-down attachment point towards the front (by attaching a extension to the happijac bed mounted tie-down point). I'll update when I get something done. That always takes longer than I want it to! And the Hallmark's water tank is leaking at one of the level sensor electrodes so I have yet another camper project to do.

 

[camelracer]

Have you thought of using 2 tie down mounting points at the front of the camper. One to the jack bracket to control vertical motion and one to the floor pack to control horizontal motion. I would think most of the load would be vertical and the small horizontal component would not harm the camper floor pack.

 

[ntsqd]

If the truck bed has internal tie-downs you may be able to run a cable from one rear tie-down around the backside of the camper to the other tie-down. This can be down low where visible and possibly even be run behind a piece of trim should there be any. Shouldn't take much to stop the rearward translation. 1/8" cable is probably too small, but not by a lot. Use a turn-buckle on one end to tension the cable. Armor the corners with steel though, cables make decent saws given the chance.

What is your bed mat's weight? Our is in the 50-60 lbs range. If yours isn't that heavy it may not be as much rubber as you need. Our first camper did the jitterbug on wash-board roads until I put that mat under it. It rides between the steel bed and the camper floor, nothing else is in there. If you have a plastic bed liner that for sure will give trouble, even with a rubber mat on top of it.

 

[smlobx]

Just saw this thread and as others have said welcome to one of the best truck camper forums out there.

I am a Hallmark owner as well and agree with Wandering Sagebrush about the Torquelift front tie down and Fast guns. They are not cheap but they do work very well. Like you mentioned the guys at Hallmark drilled additional holes in the bracket that allows the tie downs to sit about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch from the bed panel. It works very well. Also the Torquelift brackets have 2 different attachment points that will allow you to move the lower attachment point forward about 4 inches.

Another thing I noticed is that the plate that your tie down attaches to is something I’ve never seen before. I’m wondering if that is some sort of bracket the previous owner had installed. Mine secures to the plate on the camper much more securely. I can take a picture if you want.

We have taken our rig on some pretty bumpy roads but don’t have the fixed step that you do. My steps retract up under the bed.

 

[smlobx]

I had to go to my shop and snapped a couple of pictures.
‘Here’s the front bracket mounted. Although it looks like it may be sticking out several inches the Fast gun just clears the side.

 

[smlobx]

Here is the front mounting point for the camper. Obviously I have a manual jack but between it and the camper is a C channel piece of metal that attaches completely along the camper’s plate. My Fastgun attaches into the hole on the front.
Very secure.

 

[Dadocut]

Thom: My mat is quite heavy but it sits on top of a spray-on bed liner. Maybe the liner makes it slip and causes the movement.

Eddie: The front frame-mount torklift tie-down points look similar to the rear ones I have. They are stout but unfortunately would interfere with the F250's running board step. When you use your fastguns, do they go straight up and down? Or do they angle forward, helping to hold your camper towards the front of the bed. The C Channel is an interesting idea. For my truck I'd need the C channel on the inside of the plate but it might get me a better mounting spot.

All these suggestions have sparked a number of ideas. Thanks, I appreciate it.

As soon as I get my water tank back in I'll work on the tie-downs.

 

[smlobx]

Thom: My mat is quite heavy but it sits on top of a spray-on bed liner. Maybe the liner makes it slip and causes the movement.

Eddie: The front frame-mount torklift tie-down points look similar to the rear ones I have. They are stout but unfortunately would interfere with the F250's running board step. When you use your fastguns, do they go straight up and down? Or do they angle forward, helping to hold your camper towards the front of the bed. The C Channel is an interesting idea. For my truck I'd need the C channel on the inside of the plate but it might get me a better mounting spot.

All these suggestions have sparked a number of ideas. Thanks, I appreciate it.

As soon as I get my water tank back in I'll work on the tie-downs.

my front tie downs actually are pointed back and the rear ones pointed forward so that my rear bracket actually keeps it from slipping backward.
‘Here’s a picture all nice and clean before we left for Alaska last summer!