Tacoma or Tundra for pop up camper

[Gnome]

Hello,
I car camp a lot for weekends to enjoy conyoneering. I am looking to upgrade my camping by going with a truck and pop up camper. I have been heavily considering the Tacoma but have recently questioned if a Tundra may be a better idea with the load of a camper. Some of the questions I have are inter-linked.

This truck will not be a daily driver. It's typical use will be highway miles (between 500 and 900 miles round trip) to an area to play in. Once in the area of play we will set camp on dirt roads and also drive the camper 15 to 20 miles in on the dirt roads each day to get to the canyons we will descend. The roads are typically in good shape but do get rough in a few places.

I know a Tacoma can handle the weight of a pop up camper since many people do this. But is this the best idea? Obviously I would like to keep costs down so the Tacoma seems the better choice up front. I am ok to spend the extra cash on the Tundra if logic warrants it. Can some of you offer insights, opinions and tales of experience to help with this?

Oh and I would go with the larger engine in either the Tacoma or Tundra. I will be buying a new truck and have not opened my search to used vehicles. I understand I can keep costs down by going used, but for the sake of this post consider I am talking about a new Tacoma vs a new Tundra.

I have looked at a few pop ups and am considering mostly FWC or NorthStar. I am leaning toward NorthStar for the additional creature comfort. Since I will not be getting into super rough 4WD driving, I feel the Northstar will also hold up to what I plan to put it through.

1. Pay load. While the Tacoma can handle the payload of the camper, I fear it may be at the upper limit. Will this effect how quickly I drive those long highway miles due to less stability on curves or faint acceleration? We typically go out for 2 to 4 days by taking time off work. Getting to and from camp in a timely manner is important. I do not need a speeding rocket and totally understand a large vehicle will be driven more slowly. But between the two options will I notice a difference in how well the truck is suited to drive the highways at a timely pace or will they be pretty much the same.

2. Suspension mods. To handle the load of the camper and other things added, it is common for people to beef up the suspension of the Tacoma. Will the suspension of a Tundra need to be modified for a pop up camper? If not, this would help off set the upfront costs. I also like the idea of not needing to mod everything.

3. MPG. I can compare the MPG of the two vehicles and get an idea of additional costs. However I have heard people say that a large truck will be less effected by a heavy load. By contrast I have heard a smaller truck will be more effected with the heavy load. The MPG figures supplied by Toyota are based on an empty truck. How does the reality factor work in this situation? The camper will live permanently on the truck. Can anyone offer experience or advice on how to think about MPG between these two vehicles when a camper is living on the back?

4. Add ons. I plan to add a carrier on the back (like the large Stowaway2 box) to haul gear etc. On rare occasion I will haul a kayak or other goodies on the top. This will not be common so is not a major concern but thought I would mention it. Not sure it either of these is worth noting for additional weight other than the camper. The camper will have the standard comforts like propane system, water storage, extra battery(s), etc. So consider the medium to heavy loaded pop up scenario.

If I have missed a major point I should be considering, feel free to mention that too. I am new to this and would like to feel I made the appropriate decision.

Thanks for your time and let the comments fly!
Luke

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Pretty much any Pop up you put on a Tacoma, ranger, frontier etc. will be at gvw with just the camper, no gear, no people.
A tundra, F-150,1/2 tons in general with a small Pop up will allow you to carry a little more payload.
A good start would be to find the size,type camper (weight), and a basic payload ( food, camping gear, clothing etc, then find the vehicle that will be most suited for the task.
You will always carry more weight than you think.
Good luck,
Mickey

 

[Beach]

Depending on the camper size and build out you choose, either can work. But I would go with the full size truck, either truck will require suspension and tire up grades. You'll find the Tundra with a small V8 will get about the same MPG as the Tacoma with the 6 cyl., because the 6 will be working harder. I started with my Hawk on a 1st gen. Tundra with a 4.0 V6. It was adequate on flat land but lacked power in the hills and mtns. Camper is now on a 3/4 ton (no mods needed).

 

[CougarCouple]

Hello Gnome
Welcome to WtW. I think you are asking the right questions, and this will most assuredly result in a positive experience later on.
My opinion to you is to get the larger vehicle.
I would suggest that you start adding up all that you will take on your camping trips. Camper data tag weights are dry. There are only pluses in going with the larger vehicle, as I'm sure you will realize when you add up your gear, food, people, water, gas, and on and on.
Ride will be much better also.
Good luck
Russ

ps you might also pick out a camper and call the manufacturer and ask them what is the best size vehicle for the camper.

 

[kmcintyre]

I had my eagle on a v8 Dakota. It handled the weight just fine BUT if I needed power to pass or accelerate I had to plan ahead about 10 mins.
I went through the same process as you. Got a diesel. Great mileage, power, comfort, etc. Compared to the mid size Dakota. Ram1500 ED and everything is great (except it's a Fiat-Chrydler product).

 

[nikonron]

Tacoma here and for me it works fine. I like the smaller truck size for tight trails. 15 to 18 mpg. If I were to move to a full size truck it would be a 3/4 ton. I wish that Toyota would produce one. Ron

 

[Stalking Light]

I like my Eagle/Tacoma combo but I did upgrade my suspension and tires.

 

[moveinon]

I like my Tacoma, Fleet a lot. Also upgraded suspension and tires as others have. Handling and power is fine. Like the turning radius and size for city parking. Braking is OK but will be upgrading when current brakes wear.

 

[ottorogers]

I like my Tacoma, Fleet a lot. Also upgraded suspension and tires as others have. Handling and power is fine. Like the turning radius and size for city parking. Braking is OK but will be upgrading when current brakes wear.

when you say "Upgrading brakes", what do you mean?? Slotted and drilled rotors on the front disk brakes?? What can you do for the rear of a Tacoma, it has drum brakes???

 

[ottorogers]

I'll chime in here, personally I feel the Tundra is at the bear minimum for a popup camper, by the time you add water, propane, 2 people, all your gear, dual batteries, solar panels, you're going to be way over the allowable weight ratings for a Tacoma, unless you order a shell popup, and are a minimalist (which most of us are NOT).

I just bought a 2014 Tundra Limited double cab with a 6.6 box, I am buying a FWC Hawk, and after all the calculations I will be right at my legal limit or possibly over slightly depending on a full tank of fuel, propane and water, and if we have a full load of supplies.

I love the Tacoma, but it is just too small for me to fit in, I am 6'1" and the seats are very uncomfortable, the Tundra is very comfortable, and the seat actually goes back further than I need, this is the first vehicle I have ever owned where the seat went back far enough

Of course the Tundra will burn more gas, no way around that.

Go with the Tundra and a Hawk model of Four Wheel Camper

 

[klahanie]

4. Add ons. I plan to add a carrier on the back (like the large Stowaway2 box) to haul gear etc. On rare occasion I will haul a kayak or other goodies on the top. This will not be common so is not a major concern but thought I would mention it. Not sure it either of these is worth noting for additional weight other than the camper. The camper will have the standard comforts like propane system, water storage, extra battery(s), etc. So consider the medium to heavy loaded pop up scenario.

If I have missed a major point I should be considering, feel free to mention that too. I am new to this and would like to feel I made the appropriate decision.

Thanks for your time and let the comments fly!
Luke

Hello, Note carrying weight behind the axle increases the actual load placed on the axle by a factor of distance from the axle center line / wheelbase. So, say a 140# box+carrier+contents and the center of that wt is 52" aft of axle of a 127 WB vehicle. The effective wt is close to 200#s. Does that matter IDK... I would also compare the tow hitches avail with each model, one might be better for the carrier you mentioned.

One point not mentioned is the interior comfort, seating, legroom as well as driver sight lines, perspective etc. It's for you, it should fit you.

On Edit: reread, sorry, ottorogers had already covered my last point.

As to OP point #1. I believe it's safe to say a smaller camper on a bigger truck will have more "stability" than the reverse. The key is to keep the mass low and centered and to try to keep within the design specs of the vehicle. As to a larger vehicle needing to be driven more slowly, narrow trails excepted, I think you might be surprised ...

 

[jimjxsn]

I've had two Tundras. A 2000 with a FWC Ranger which I had for 10 years. I now have a 2017 with an ATC Panther which I just got this summer. They were both fantastic!

I added a rear sway bar and air bags on the new Tundra and realize now that I may not have needed the air bags. Although, with the camper and towing that big trailer, I did end up pumping up the bags.

 

[moveinon]

Ottorogers
With my last Tacoma I hauled some pretty heavy loads down steep mountain roads. Was worried about brakes so changed to slotted discs in front (don’t like drilled) and changed the calipers to Tundra ones with quality pads. It substantially improved braking. The only modification to do that is the dust shield so simple DIY process. I have already gotten a couple of Tundra calipers from a local junk yard to clean, paint and put in new pads to replace brakes on my current truck when it needs. I could upgrade the rear to discs but that would be overkill for me so will leave them as is.

 

[Gnome]

I have been spending a lot of time trying to figure out exactly what I want. I am getting close but still not fully settled. One thing I have decided on is going with the Tundra.

As Mickey B. said "Pretty much any Pop up you put on a Tacoma, ranger, frontier etc. will be at gvw with just the camper, no gear, no people."

As I looked into it, I found this to be correct. Sure there are a small few campers that come in below the GVWR of a Tacoma but not by very much and by the time you add options and gear and passengers you are over GVWR by a significant amount.
So I decided to bump up to the Tundra.

However I found something interesting. It seems the Tundra is in the same boat in a way. The issue is When you get a larger truck, you start looking for a camper for that truck. Looking at the manufactures web sites you find they build specific models for the truck and those are a little heavier. Essentially you are close or over on GVWR on the Tundra as well.

There seems to be a disconnect in the concept that you should try to stay at or below the GVWR and what the manufactures build for the trucks. I understand you can make suspension mods etc to beef things up. But there is more to the GVWR thing than suspension and tires. Brakes, frame, transmission etc are all part of that equation. Truck manufacturers do not tell you what the weak link is in the GVWR rating. You can upgrade things and feel you are making the truck able to handle more weight. But you simply don't really know for sure if you addressed the correct weak link.

Rather I choose the Tacoma or Tundra, the camper dealers will have camper models that most times are too heavy for the truck. Lots of people do it and are fine. In the end I will probably have a camper that is technically too heavy for the truck as well. This does not fill me with joy.

I had considered using a camper made for the Tacoma and place it on a Tundra. Two problems with that, they aren't made to fit the truck and, well, who wants to put less camper on a truck than a camper dealer says they can? lol we all want more and if the dealer says its good, then we kind of turn a blind eye to the GVWR thing. Its like a bank saying you can afford a very large mortgage. We want the big thing so we buy into the hype.

I did not want to bump up to the 3/4 ton trucks (although I contemplated doing so). I am a little bit of a Toyota Fan after my last vehicle. So Tundra it is. After hearing the MPG is not too different between a loaded Tacoma and a loaded Tundra I feel the Tundra is better for my needs so I know I have a little more payload wiggle room.

Klahanie thanks for mentioning the increased payload added by placing weight out from the rear axle. Makes sense but I never thought of it. I would also prefer to keep my gear in the truck somewhere if I can (not in my living space and not on the roof though). The rack on the back may make the front end light, add the extra payload by leverage and mess with the departure angle.

Hear is my new question and I may start a new thread on this. Unless you guys have quick solid answers based on experience.

I understand that keeping the center of gravity lower helps with stability. Does anyone have experience with elevating a camper on a platform? I am considering placing a platform with drawers under the camper. With the same camper mounted to the bed compared to the same camper mounted 12 inches higher on a platform, can anyone comment on how big of a change in drivability this would have. Minor or extreme?

I know by doing this I would have the sleeping area significantly over the cab of the truck with a blank space. I will deal with that with storage mods and a wind flare. I know it will create more drag. But my main concern is how will raising the camper up 12 inches effect the drivability on winding roads? if it minor I am ok with that. If it is a major impact I may reconsider.

I am more concerned with highway and paved winding roads. My off road use will be on the mellower side with the occasional moderate obstacle. I am not a hard core off road guy. If its crazy hard I go play elsewhere.

Thoughts?

And thanks to everyone for chiming in! it gave me a lot of research time. lol I have been up late many nights working out various options.
Luke

 

[CougarCouple]

I have no experience with this Gnome, but there was conversation about the flat bed models and the elevation the deck put the camper vs the ones you slide into oem bed. There is a f250 or 350 with a slide in camper on a flat bed using the space on either side for storage. I'll look for them.
Russ

Here's one
http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/15255-2011-ford-f-350-super-duty-powerstroke-flatbed-4x4-w-1997-4wc-grandby-package/?hl=flatbed

And another
http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/15218-side-boxes-instead-of-fenders/

 

[Gnome]

That first one would fill my needs well. At one point I was considering a flat bed and a flat bed model. A FWC dealer quoted me like $13K for a flat bed alone! That sticker shock sent me running to the hills. I sometimes feel they were high ballin me. I like the look and function of the link you shared it has me wanting to look at the flat bed prices more.
Luke

 

[Gnome]

Looking closer I see the same issue arises with this as with a platform. Note the distance between the sleeping area / cab over and the top of the truck cab. That is the type of distance I would have with the platform concept. The flat bed sits high (above the wheel well zone) just as the platform would sit high (above the wheel well zone).

 

[rando]

Firstly, flatbeds can be had for much less than $13K, mine was more like $3K. While I like the drawer idea, I think 12" would be a LOT of extra height. With my flatbed, I am mounted ~4" above the original bed, and feel that the extra space between the cab over and cab of the truck is a bit excessive (it is ~5"). With 12" drawers you would be looking at about 15" clearance between the cab and cabover. I would also be starting to get a little concerned about COG with a 1500lb weight raised an extra 12". The slide in models already have the weight a little higher than the flat bed models to clear the bed rails. If you are worried about storage space I would strongly consider the flatbed models. They have way more interior storage to start with, and the option for under-bed drawers and tool boxes giving even more storage. The side door layout is also far superior (IMHO anyway). If your budget can't extend to the flatbed model, a slide in on a flatbed with tool boxes maybe a decent alternative with extra storage.

 

[kmcintyre]

What I did and I found out I like a lot is to get a full size truck (aka Tundra size) with a camper that was made for the mid-size trucks. Yes, you lose some of the extra interior space but you get a camper that is a bit more sleek behind the cab and it's a bit lighter. Yes, the full size trucks are still 1/2 ton but the combo seems to work better (for me).

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Gnome, well done research.
I have an FWC Eagle, had it on a 00' Ranger, upgraded to 456 gears and Ride rites, but still a little truck.
Went to a 99'150 Added Ride rites, turned into a great rig. camper, factory optioned is about 1k lbs leaving approximately 500lbs people and gear, at that, at or above gvw.
I don't do hard core off-road but am not intimidated by a little side hill or tight FSR.

Very little change in MPG
Good luck.
Mickey