Two week quarantines in CA, OR, WA - no recreation travel

First, let me say that I think Governors Inslee, Brown and Newsom have largely handled Covid as well as they could have given the resources directed their way (or more appropriately, not directed their way) from the Federal Government during this National Emergency. That said, this doesn't make sense if you take it on face value. The virus doesn't travel on shoes and tires. It travels in lungs. Maybe this is a stealthy way of keeping large indoor gatherings down, but if I live my life the way I have been, I expect that there would be no change in my risk or anyone else's risk of being infected by me.

I'm a healthcare provider. We universally mask at our office when indoors, even if alone at our desks. So do all of our patients. My wife practices with me. We mask indoors everywhere, except in our own home or in our car. Our son is grown and has moved out. We wash our hands regularly and keep our distance. We socialize occasionally, but only outside and at a distance of 10+ feet.

Whether I'm in WA, OR (my home state), or CA, if I maintain those habits, why would the state I'm in matter? I'm all for doing what we need to do to get this pandemic under control, but this seems pretty arbitrary.
 
eyemgh said:
First, let me say that I think Governors Inslee, Brown and Newsom have largely handled Covid as well as they could have given the resources directed their way (or more appropriately, not directed their way) from the Federal Government during this National Emergency. That said, this doesn't make sense if you take it on face value. The virus doesn't travel on shoes and tires. It travels in lungs. Maybe this is a stealthy way of keeping large indoor gatherings down, but if I live my life the way I have been, I expect that there would be no change in my risk or anyone else's risk of being infected by me.

I'm a healthcare provider. We universally mask at our office when indoors, even if alone at our desks. So do all of our patients. My wife practices with me. We mask indoors everywhere, except in our own home or in our car. Our son is grown and has moved out. We wash our hands regularly and keep our distance. We socialize occasionally, but only outside and at a distance of 10+ feet.

Whether I'm in WA, OR (my home state), or CA, if I maintain those habits, why would the state I'm in matter? I'm all for doing what we need to do to get this pandemic under control, but this seems pretty arbitrary.
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Yes, we never go out without masks. When I do shopping I always wear latex gloves. And at home wash hands frequently as well as
carrying and using regularly a bottle of sanitizer in each of our vehicles. Our social lives are pretty much nil. I do not feel at risk. So, I agree that the 2 week quarantine does not make sense, unless it is an indirect way of getting people to take this pandemic seriously.
 
AWG_Pics said:
Yes, we never go out without masks. When I do shopping I always wear latex gloves. And at home wash hands frequently as well as
carrying and using regularly a bottle of sanitizer in each of our vehicles. Our social lives are pretty much nil. I do not feel at risk. So, I agree that the 2 week quarantine does not make sense, unless it is an indirect way of getting people to take this pandemic seriously.
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Our FWC is our Covid Escape Vehicle! :D
 
My concern in all this is that the recommendations/mandates simply say face covering/mask is required.

There is no mention of any mask ratings/specifications that provide a suitable level of protection for the wearer to avoid infection or to not spread infection. I find no standard for masks or which masks have been tested and proven effective for the purpose. That information is available for dust/various chemicals or pesticides for agricultural/industrial uses and is typically printed on the package. It is missing on packaging for masks being sold for compliance with face covering requirements.

This has made me very skeptical of the face covering requirements especially when seeing neck gaiters or bandanas accepted as meeting the face covering requirements. Far too many times, I see people at half-mask covering the mouth but not the nose and that is accepted as complying.

I use KN95 rated masks without exhalation valves when available and the “TV show surgical masks” when KN95 are in short supply. I suspect that the mask requirement is for show or to keep our stress level high. Oregon was just issued more restrictions to start immediately for individuals but in 5 days for businesses. Why the delay for businesses? Are they less likely to spread the virus?

The governor did tell us that camping is OK unlike this spring when they closed the campgrounds. Either they are not all that smart or we are not all that smart. YMMV, I guess.

By the way, the quarantine period is 4 weeks in Multnomah county but just 2 weeks in adjacent counties.

Paul
 
I have taken a jaundiced view of government scientists ever since they had elementary school kids hide under our desks to 'protect' us from a nuclear blast.

Screen Shot 2020-08-18 at 10.16.43 PM.png
 
PaulT said:
My concern in all this is that the recommendations/mandates simply say face covering/mask is required.

There is no mention of any mask ratings/specifications that provide a suitable level of protection for the wearer to avoid infection or to not spread infection. I find no standard for masks or which masks have been tested and proven effective for the purpose. That information is available for dust/various chemicals or pesticides for agricultural/industrial uses and is typically printed on the package. It is missing on packaging for masks being sold for compliance with face covering requirements.

This has made me very skeptical of the face covering requirements especially when seeing neck gaiters or bandanas accepted as meeting the face covering requirements. Far too many times, I see people at half-mask covering the mouth but not the nose and that is accepted as complying.

I use KN95 rated masks without exhalation valves when available and the “TV show surgical masks” when KN95 are in short supply. I suspect that the mask requirement is for show or to keep our stress level high. Oregon was just issued more restrictions to start immediately for individuals but in 5 days for businesses. Why the delay for businesses? Are they less likely to spread the virus?
The governor did tell us that camping is OK unlike this spring when they closed the campgrounds. Either they are not all that smart or we are not all that smart. YMMV, I guess.
By the way, the quarantine period is 4 weeks in Multnomah county but just 2 weeks in adjacent counties.

Paul
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There is indeed good data on this. It comes out of Asia from institutions that were primarily measuring pollution, but pivoted their particle counter work to smaller particle sizes. Essentially nearly anything helps some. N95s and most real KN95s block 95% or more. Standard three layer procedure masks block 80%. Single layer cloth...60% give or take. Remember though, that's what's coming IN. The primary purpose of the mask is to reduce the distance of what is being exhaled. If you can reduce the distance the particles travel from 6 feet to 1 foot and watch your distance and time exposure, all is good. There's a reason Japan, a densely populated nation with 126 million people has had fewer cases total than we had yesterday alone. This is not that complicated.
 
My understanding with Multinomah county and the reason for 4 wks .Vs 2 wks is that they have a huge increase in covid cases one of several counties in PDX, I guess M. county is not expected to decrease enuf to lift restritions in two wks.time. Time will tell what happens next...... im glad for our FWC pod....be safe. Hoop
 
JaSAn said:
I have taken a jaundiced view of government scientists ever since they had elementary school kids hide under our desks to 'protect' us from a nuclear blast.

attachicon.gif
Screen Shot 2020-08-18 at 10.16.43 PM.png
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The difference in the masks shown is the first five are to protect you from breathing something in. The last one is also to protect others from what you breathe out. Most people that catch this flu don't even know it for a week or so, but they are contagious during that time. The mask is to help stop them from spreading it as much as it is to protect you.

I get it, wearing a mask is a PITA. As a cancer patient receiving chemo twice a month, I have a "compromised immune system". And since my cancer has spread to my lungs, it is sometimes a pain for me to breathe without a mask. But I have no choice but to wear a mask when I go to my appointments because so many others aren't wearing one. And while wearing a mask won't kill you, you not wearing a mask can kill me.
 
NM has a two week quarantine and the Governor just increased the restrictions. I've been on a 3 week road trip from NM to Texas. I wanted to vote in person, and see all my doctors in Houston. So I made a FWC road trip out of it. I spent a week in Guadalupe Mts National Park, then headed south. I packed two weeks of food, so after feeling real safe at my medical appointments, camping on the beach near Surfside, TX, Brazios Bends S.P., a RV Park in Houston and stopped in Kerrville, TX to resupply. That was the only time I felt unsafe. Even though the store had a sign requiring masks and social distancing, the store was very crowded, only social distancing at the register and lots of maskless people. On the other hand, everyone I met in the national park, whether in the parking lot or on the trail practiced social distancing, stepping well off the trail to let people pass and many were masked.

I think that the bureaucrats really don't know how were operate in the back country, so they make sweeping rules. I was planning to stay out one more week, but have decide to head back to my motorhome, before I run out of my meds. I brought a month's supply and although I won't have any problem now crossing the border back to NM, I worry that might change and my Texas plates might cause a problem. I planned to hunker down, but continue to take the Hawk into the NM backcountry as much as possible. The NM state parks are closed to out of state residents.
Be safe

Mask up, social distance and seek solitude where you find it
 
California, Oregon & Washington Issue Travel Advisories
Published:
Nov 13, 2020
In light of rising cases, West Coast states issue travel advisories recommending 14-day quarantines for inter-state and international travel; ask residents to stay local​
SACRAMENTO – As COVID-19 cases continue to increase across the country, California Governor Gavin Newsom, Oregon Governor Kate Brown and Washington Governor Jay Inslee issued travel advisories today urging visitors entering their states or returning home from travel outside these states to self-quarantine to slow the spread of the virus. The travel advisories urge against non-essential out-of-state travel, ask people to self-quarantine for 14 days after arriving from another state or country and encourage residents to stay local.

“California just surpassed a sobering threshold – one million COVID-19 cases – with no signs of the virus slowing down,” said California Governor Gavin Newsom. “Increased cases are adding pressure on our hospital systems and threatening the lives of seniors, essential workers and vulnerable Californians. Travel increases the risk of spreading COVID-19, and we must all collectively increase our efforts at this time to keep the virus at bay and save lives.”

In addition to urging individuals arriving from other states or countries to self-quarantine for 14 days after arrival, the states’ travel advisories recommend individuals limit their interactions to their immediate household. The advisories define essential travel as travel for work and study, critical infrastructure support, economic services and supply chains, health, immediate medical care and safety and security.

“COVID-19 does not stop at state lines. As hospitals across the West are stretched to capacity, we must take steps to ensure travelers are not bringing this disease home with them,” said Oregon Governor Kate Brown. “If you do not need to travel, you shouldn’t. This will be hard, especially with Thanksgiving around the corner. But the best way to keep your family safe is to stay close to home.”

“COVID cases have doubled in Washington over the past two weeks. This puts our state in as dangerous a position today as we were in March,” said Washington Governor Jay Inslee. “Limiting and reducing travel is one way to reduce the further spread of the disease. I am happy to partner with California and Oregon in this effort to help protect lives up and down the West Coast.”

To learn more about the risk that travel itself poses for COVID-19 exposure, please visit the CDC page on travel risks.
 
Interesting report on the marines. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/11/covid-spread-among-marine-recruits-despite-quarantine

I take precautions, wear my mask and have enough hand sanitizer to supply a small country. I'd still consider myself in the moderate level precaution wise. I socialize just within a small circle. I don't wear gloves. I kind of figured the odds I've been exposed were pretty high. Feeling well and healthy and being a long time blood donor I donated again recently. They now do an antibody test routinely. My results came back negative. So are my precautions adequate or am I just lucky. I wish I knew.
 
craig333 said:
Interesting report on the marines. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/11/covid-spread-among-marine-recruits-despite-quarantine

I take precautions, wear my mask and have enough hand sanitizer to supply a small country. I'd still consider myself in the moderate level precaution wise. I socialize just within a small circle. I don't wear gloves. I kind of figured the odds I've been exposed were pretty high. Feeling well and healthy and being a long time blood donor I donated again recently. They now do an antibody test routinely. My results came back negative. So are my precautions adequate or am I just lucky. I wish I knew.
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Our whole staff was been exposed 10 weeks ago. We all tested negative (unlikely to get all false negatives, so I feel confident in the results). Our masking and hygiene routine seems to be working. I have NO doubt there have been others in the office who were asymptomatic that we just don't know about.

The thing that chaps my hindquarters is that if everyone did very simple things (act like you're a zombie and assume everyone else is too) we wouldn't be facing yet another round of these types of moves to control the spread.

The Marine study is interesting. According to the original article, multiple recruits were infected on Day Zero. Two specific recruits were tied to the two biggest clusters via sequencing. You could conclude that the virus spread in spite of quarantine measures, or that not all recruits did their pre-camp quarantine properly. If the latter is the case and they started the two biggest clusters, they likely didn't follow the protocol once in camp either.

As for gloves, they're no different than bare hands. They still need to be washed, disinfected or changed frequently or the risks of spread are the same as ungloved. They are a plus/minus. They may reduce face touching via increased awareness, but they also disincentivize hand hygiene due to overconfidence.
 
eyemgh said:
As for gloves, they're no different than bare hands. They still need to be washed, disinfected or changed frequently or the risks of spread are the same as ungloved. They are a plus/minus. They may reduce face touching via increased awareness, but they also disincentivize hand hygiene due to overconfidence.
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This is very good advice. I don't think most people that wear nitrile or latex gloves follow proper glove protocols. My method stems from extensive training, including annual refresher courses, before working for many years in the hazardous waste cleanup world. Gloves, once put on your hands, should be viewed as direct and immediate hazard sources. There is a proper technique to wearing them, and most important, how to remove them and safely discard them. As eyemgh says, before peeling them off, gloves should be disinfected, just like bare hands.
 
Wow, Governor Newsome just said they're "considering" a curfew. Might be good I got back when I did.
 
I mask and glove up not so much for just myself, but to make sure I don't accidentally kill anyone else.

I wear seat belts. I obey traffic laws. Heck, I even wear pants in public. Each of these take some of my freedoms away. And if a store or service provider asks me to wear a mask before entering their premises, I respect their right to set those conditions and I comply.

Freedom is a relative condition. And politics has nothing to do with my freedom. Nor do I know of a single politician, whose lifeblood is always public approval, that has gained popular approval because they have locked down their jurisdictions.

So, I hope you all mask up and practice social distancing. If not for yourself, do it for the sake of other people.
 
AWG_Pics said:
I mask and glove up not so much for just myself, but to make sure I don't accidentally kill anyone else.

I wear seat belts. I obey traffic laws. Heck, I even wear pants in public. Each of these take some of my freedoms away. And if a store or service provider asks me to wear a mask before entering their premises, I respect their right to set those conditions and I comply.

Freedom is a relative condition. And politics has nothing to do with my freedom. Nor do I know of a single politician, whose lifeblood is always public approval, that has gained popular approval because they have locked down their jurisdictions.

So, I hope you all mask up and practice social distancing. If not for yourself, do it for the sake of other people.
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Well said. Vaccine or no vaccine, these will be very important behaviors in the foreseeable future not only for public health but for consumer confidence.
 
A mask must be worn properly to be really effective. Unfortunately, few masks of the type commonly in public hands do much. If one has ever done surgery, then he or she knows it is difficult to wear a mask so it seals the top against leaks that fog glasses. As and example, a surgeon's mask will likely be taped down or sealed in one of several ways so they can see to do their surgery. Ordinary lay people will not do this, even if they know how.

This is serious business. Talk to a doc who runs an emergency room and they will report there are so many COVID-19 related deaths that they become numb to the human tole. So, what is the answer?

Should one leave it to the a Governor's mandates, which in some cases are wrong, and in other cases helpful? Anyway, this is not enough. It is important to take responsibility for one's own safety. Know this is complicated and varies depending on the actual risk which varies widely from zero to deadly depending on the environment. Study ways to protect yourself and do it! Try to avoid infecting others. By the time this is sorted out, many thousands will be dead from the COVID-19 virus. Be one that survives.

John D
 
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