Which truck for FWC flat bed?

[thejm]

What would you choose if you were in my shoes? Please help me decide which trucks to consider for a first-time FWC flat bed build.

Having gone from a 2wd Vanagon to a 22' RV (all the while obsessing over which kind of adventure-mobile would make the perfect go-anywhere dream rig), I'm now convinced that a 4x4 truck with a FWC Hawk flatbed is the way to go for my particular desires, budget, and values.

I stopped taking trips in the Vanagon because I could no longer trust that it would get me there and back.

I'm not driving the RV as much because its nearly impossible to book RV campsites last minute, forcing me to camp off the beaten path. Driving even on well-maintained gravel forest roads is a VERY slow nightmare and with it being only 2WD and over 11,000 lbs, I'm asking for trouble. And the mileage is terrible--8 MPG cruising around 60 MPH.

I thought Tacoma was the way to go for reliability, size, and longevity, but after doing some research, its seems like the general consensus is to go domestic and go 3/4 ton. It seems like a lot of folks are building on Rams but I've heard they aren't the most reliable. I hear the Ford F150 with their new V6's and the payload package gets great MPG's. Sounds like Chevy suffers in the MPG department.

This is not intended be a daily driver--the camper will stay on at all times. I'm planning on a flat bed Hawk with lots of goodies sitting on a fully decked out Norweld. I'd like the "first" truck to be:

1. SAFE: I want to know the thing will stop if I need to slam on the brakes and that it won't tip and loose control if I accidentally swerve. It must handle well on icy roads and be able to go the speed limit up hills without overheating. I don't want any stress...that defeats the purpose of getting away!

2. RELIABLE: In my experience, Toyota is extremely dependable but perhaps not when carrying more than its recommended payload (especially off road). Which other trucks can I rely on to just go go go?

3. FUEL EFFICIENT: I want to get at least 12-15+ MPG's while driving conservatively. I miss the 17+ MPGs of the Vanagon when getting 8 in the RV.

4. OFF ROAD CAPABLE: I don't want to do any rock crawling but I also don't want to be limited as to where I can go (like I've been in the Vanagon and the RV). I want to go off the grid and enjoy the experience! I don't want to fear getting stuck somewhere out of cell phone range!

5. SEATING AND SIZE: I'll live with a single cab to start as my girlfriend and I don't have kids but an extended cab with a short wheelbase might be nice. Crew cab is probably overkill at this time although I'm sure the dog would like it.

6. BUDGET: +/- $15K cash. I realize a truck that ticks all these boxes may not exist at this price point, in which case I will have to make sacrifices somewhere. One of the reasons I want to go FWC is so that I can move the camper to new (or newer) chassis' as needed down the road.

I'll mostly be solo or with my girlfriend and the dog. I'll be carrying a couple of surfboards, a snowboard and skis, and bicycles (not likely at the same time). I'll be carrying a full load of water and extra fuel to camp comfortably in the winter (Eastern Sierra mostly).

Things I've considered:

A truck with higher mileage may not be as reliable.
An older truck with low mileage may have an inefficient engine in it.
Some trucks are much harder to find in the used marketplace.
Some brands/years are better than others and unicorns might exist out there.

I know there's a lot out there on this highly subjective topic so I'll continue to do my research, but maybe you already have and have got some wisdom and insight you wouldn't mind sharing with me. Thanks!

 

[rando]

I am very happy with my Fleet Flatbed on a Tacoma, I went with this combination for the reasons you identify and don't regret it.

One thing you may want to consider in your configuration is resale value. As much as we all like to think that this next camper is 'the one', it seems that it rarely works out that way and we end up switching out campers/vehicles fairly often. To this end, I am not sure it is wise to stick what will likely turn into a $50,000 camper on a $15,000 truck. Once they are mated, it would be hard to sell them separately, which means the whole setup essentially becomes the model year of the truck. It seems that a well outfitted flatbed can fetch $50 - $80k on the used market, but someone spending that much on an RV will likely not be in the market for a 10+ year old chassis. You can save $7 - 8K on the flatbed by going with a simple tray with under bed tool boxes over a Norweld and that money may be better invested in a newer truck.

 

[CougarCouple]

Hi thjm
Which flat bed model are you looking at?

Russ

 

[justbecause]

A midsized truck with a full camper isnt going to be fuel efficient. You will be pushing the limits of what the truck can do.

Really dig into Instagram and the forums and look at the midsize guys who are honest about what they get mpg. 8 isnt unusual. 10-12 is average. I see some people claim 15. I don't believe that. My mostly stock frontier only loaded with camping gear e rated tires arb, no additional armor gets 16 at the best of times. Even in my current set up I feel like the brakes aren't up to the task. that's the major thing keeping me out of a camper is I'm 95% sure i need a full size, the real question is do i make a 1/2 ton work, or stuck it up accept 12mpg and get a 3/4 ton

If I could find a used 4x4 truck with decent mileage for 15k I would have already bought it. Used trucks are unreasonably expensive now and I believe I'm better off getting a brand new truck.

 

[Beach]

With the flat bed model and the gear you want to carry. your on the right track going 3/4 ton but I'd also consider a 1 ton, especially if you find one that meets your price point. My F250/Hawk fully loaded gets over 11 mpg consistently and sometimes hits 13(barely). I don't fret about 1, 2 or 3 mpg, otherwise i would get rid of my rig buy a Prius and pack my tent and jetboil. On a 3,000 mile trip the cost difference between 12 or 15mpg is about $100

 

[ntsqd]

I bought a used 3/4t diesel because within our truck budget no gasser was going to get decent mpg's with a camper on board. With more in the truck budget that may not be so correct. Seems like these really late model gas trucks easily equal our average, but I seriously doubt any of them can equal the two spikes that I've recorded. I plan on 13 when figuring range etc. but the average seems to be closer to 15 if we don't have to be somewhere by a certain time. I have seen ~19 twice (18.9 & 19.8). One of those (18.9) included the Grapevine on I-5, so it's not like it was all flat and level with a tail-wind. I only occasionally spot-check it as I'd rather enjoy the trip.

Having been around pick-ups my whole life I never considered a 1/2t. Partly because there are no used 1/2t trucks in our price range with a diesel engine, and mostly because I knew that I wanted the bigger brakes and the floating rear axle. Had I bought a 1/2t I knew that I'd end up turning it into a 3/4t, so why not just start there?

Most of the time the physical difference between two same age & brand 3/4t & 1t trucks is very small. As petty as it looks to type it, I dislike the 1t's Fed required cab clearance lights enough to build a 1t out of a 3/4t if I have to. Turns out that in our truck's case the differences are so small that careful selection of wear replacement parts have made it a 1t in all but what the sticker says.

 

[BrianG]

Ntsqd, 1T cab clearance lights, my 1T 2018 Ram doesn’t have them? Thejm, your list of requirements is well thought out but considering there are only three of you (same as us), might want to spend more on a truck (crewcab) and go with a slide in FWC. The extended cab is a prime storage area.

Just my thoughts, good luck,
Brian

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

My 1 ton doesn’t have clearance lights either, it’s a 2014.

 

[smlobx]

I think a flat bed 3/4 or 1 ton truck for a Hawk is a great platform.

Finding a good dependable truck for $15k will be the challenge imho.

I would suggest a Ford but I am biased.

The owner of the American Adventurist website, Dave, built a great rig on a new Ram but sold it just about as soon as he finished the build.
The biggest problem with the Ram 3/4 ton was the rear spring suspension which wasn’t strong enough for the task.

You can read all about his build here:

https://americanadventurist.com/forum/threads/daves-torque-wagon-build.3660/

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

My 1 ton doesn’t have clearance lights either, it’s a 2014.

Google says it’s driven by a width requirement. Anything over 80”. A cited example F150 Raptor, required. Regular F150, not required.

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

“The owner of the American Adventurist website, Dave, built a great rig on a new Ram but sold it just about as soon as he finished the build.
The biggest problem with the Ram 3/4 ton was the rear spring suspension which wasn’t strong enough for the task.”

I believe his rig had the coil springs in the rear, which are not available on 1Ts. Many have gone that route with the notion of more “off road flexing” but quickly discover that their load is better suited to traditional leaf springs. Not saying that coils won’t work in any situation...but plenty of stories surrounding the Dodge coils and heavy loads in the rear. Note: I’m not a Dodge Ram hater; I owned one for 21 years and still miss it.

Edit: re-read a portion of the build. There is no mention of coil springs involved in his decision to sell the Ram. My comments are solely based on conversations with others and not with Dave.

 

[klahanie]

(all the while obsessing over which kind of adventure-mobile would make the perfect go-anywhere dream rig), I'm now convinced that a 4x4 truck with a FWC Hawk flatbed is the way to go for my particular desires, budget, and values.

No offense but I'd be keeping resale in mind when purchasing. I could see (and have seen) a person spending a whole lot of time effort and money on this type of project and then to not get the intended use out of it.

Buying turnkey used seems a good solution here but IDK if possible.

X2 on an extended cab. also for reclining passenger seat for longer drives if that might apply.

We're well over 11,000lbs and that hasn't limited us, but I avoid sand and mud (if poss). So I wouldn't be opposed to a heavier truck for off highway.

Things I've considered:

A truck with higher mileage may not be as reliable.
An older truck with low mileage may have an inefficient engine in it.
Some trucks are much harder to find in the used marketplace.
Some brands/years are better than others and unicorns might exist out there.

I'm going to take what may be to some a quite different approach ... at the end of the day the brand of truck is not going to make much difference. I'm mean, if the idea is to go out exploring and having fun, then, really, does it matter if it's a Chevy or a Ford ?

Sounds like you'll be pretty loaded up, so I'd consider having sufficient payload then shop for the best deal on the newest truck.

 

[CougarCouple]

Hi thjm
Which flat bed model are you looking at?
Russ

Sorry don't know why I missed you are looking at a hawk flatbed. One ton for that setup is what I would choose. By the time you install the camper and load it seems like one ton is called for. The post suggesting try existing setup before having a flatbed built to see if that's the way to go for you sounds like solid advice. There are plenty of real good used campers out there.

Russ

 

[thejm]

Thank you everyone for your responses. Definitely got my wheels spinning. I now think 1 ton is the way to go and I think I should up my budget on the truck and put some serious consideration into going with a newer, low-mileage truck.

My intention with going FWC over a van setup is not only off road capabilities, but the ability to transfer the camper from chassis to chassis as the trucks wear out over time. I've tried the RV and as much as I love the uber-comfort, it doesn't get me to the places I want to go. I'll spend $60K+ on a 4x4 Sprinter and another $50K to build out its permanent interior after I win the lottery.

My plan was to pay cash for a cheap truck and a nice flatbed and finance a loaded FWC Hawk flatbed. Drive it for a few years and move it all to a new truck down the road. I'm hoping to keep the FWC and flatbed for the long haul but of course, anything can change.

Going the used slide-in route is definitely a much cheaper way to go but I'm not a fan of that particular layout, want the added space of a flatbed, and know I'll always be wishing it was a flatbed so I figure why not do it "right" the first time.

I have a close friend who's uncle owns a Dodge dealership...I've been considering going Ram.

@Mighty Dodge Ram, based on your knowledge and conversations about Dave's experience, would a 1-ton without rear coils be something to consider? Or should I look to Ford? Again, reliability is a high priority and I'd go Toyota if it could handle the weight without struggling.

 

[Durango1]

I'm on my second Ram flatbed (2012 and 2018) and they both have had zero issues.

Look into a 'chassis cab' since the flat frame rails will make the flatbed fabrication and installation much easier. I even have a 'shovel box' accessible from the rear that gives great storage between the frame rails.)

If you're in the Southwest I have a killer fabricator for custom aluminum flatbed work i can refer you to.

Best wishes, Steve

 

[thejm]

Hey Steve, 3/4 ton or 1 ton for your Rams? Did you go with a a chassis cab for the 2018? I'm in Los Angeles so I'm Southwest-ish! I'd love to see photos!

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

I’d definitely go 1-ton if I was considering a flatbed. The price differential is minimal for the additional carrying capacity.

Ram 1-tons are only equipped with leaf springs...coils not available at that weight rating.

Ram vs Ford: both offer great platforms. I’m biased after owning a Dodge for 21 years and getting 302k miles out of it with the original engine/trans. (I now drive an ‘02 Chevy...long story) YMMV. My FIL drove a similar truck for the same amount of time with the Cummins before selling it for a new Ford 1-ton. It’s a great truck!

I didn’t see whether you have a definite preference for diesel or gas...you just mention fuel efficient. I prefer gas and as ntsqd mentioned, newer gassers are seeing numbers that are close to diesels. The Ram 6.4 and the Ford 6.2 gassers are both reported to be very reliable. The newer Chevy 6.0 has similar mpg ratings but IFS...not sure whether that’s a deal killer or not.

Since you’re in the L.A. area and now considering a newer truck with fewer miles let me suggest this: go visit your closest Carmax. Most of the trucks there are coming off lease and were owned by people that didn’t use them in a commercial setting. Not a lot of 1-tons, but I’ve seen them. Go drive a couple of them. Your friend’s dealership may have also taken one in trade. Of course, maybe he could get you a smokin’ hot deal on the aforementioned chassis cab!

Good luck with your search...

 

[Durango1]

Hey Steve, 3/4 ton or 1 ton for your Rams? Did you go with a a chassis cab for the 2018? I'm in Los Angeles so I'm Southwest-ish! I'd love to see photos!

The 2012 was a 3/4 ton crew cab short bed. The 2018 is a regular cab one-ton (11,000 GVWR) single rear wheel chassis cab with a Grandby on it. I'm not a big truck guru but we have the 6.4 gasser in it with a 4.30 rear end and I've been very happy with it.

I'm not smart enough to figure out how to get the 2018 photos on here. But here's a shot of the 2012 Ram/Hawk which BTW was also a good truck with the 5.7 Hemi and a 3.73 rear end. Oddly enough the mileage between the two trucks is about the same. (Around 13 mpg driven conservatively on the highway.) I think the 6.4 may be a bit more efficient engine.
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[klahanie]

Thank you everyone for your responses. Definitely got my wheels spinning....

I'm with you on most all of this post. Just want to add .02 on the flat deck.

Allow me one stereotype, that my cousins to the south love their pick ups. Personal use flat decks..., prob not so much.

One "solution" might be to store the PU box take off and re install for truck re sale. But a pain for most of us.

I think Rando nailed it; the end package likely being indivisible. I can't say how that should direct your choices only that it would be best to make them with eyes wide open.

We bought our truck new and spent a bunch on a custom deck. The justification was 10-15 years use out of the truck and I do have a history of keeping stuff. Camper was existing and had some life left in it. Can't say, tho, that I ever envisioned how the expiry would, and will, play out.

Clearly switching out a regular PU and/or slide in is much easier in comparison. If we weren't "locked in" we'd prob have a different camper right now. But we can live with what we have, YMMV.

On used, I wasn't referring to slide in. Rather something turnkey like that adventure fellow had. Don't know why he sold. I hear some like the build part best. I know these sell events do happen, unplanned.

Not to dissuade you. Life is short. If you can swing it, go for it.

 

[fireball]

The F250/350 6.2 gasser is a great platform and pretty reasonably priced. You can build up an XL base model with a few choice options and still have the vinyl seats and interior (easy to clean, great for adventure and outdoor activity) and be in the low 40s brand new.