Minimalist approach?

Hello all,

As many of you know I have been wandering this wonderful site for several years now. I am closing in on my plans for a camper and have been trying to decide my approach to the issue. As for the truck 3/4 ton is my thought at the moment but 1 ton is not out of the picture.....

I am still trying to decide on 6 3/4 bed vs 8ft with an extended cab. Anybody absolutely hate the turning radius on their 8 ft and if you were buying again would you go for the shorter bed or anyone wish they had gone bigger?

I read many threads about problems with the water system, freezing, pump failures, tank water tasting funny, and I wonder if there are more than a couple folks who have gone with the simple concept of water jugs, gravity and portable sink receptacle.

I am wondering how likely a failure in the water pump system is and how hard it would be to fix.

If I am boondocking and the pump fails or my house battery is to low am I screwed or can you get water out of the tank with no pump?

Many of the water heaters heat 3-6 gallons of water when I would rarely need more than 1. I would think heating a gallon on the stove would be more practical but the water heater might be more energy efficient?

I like the concept of a basically self working shower system such as the road shower, thanks for showing me that Squatch, which under decent circumstances will heat the water and deliver a shower without using anything but mother nature and when she doesn't cooperate a kettle on the stove should fill the bill. Anyone else using that system or something similar and what do you think?

Anyone use a water purification system for the water you get from available sources on the road?

As far as heat I am thinking a furnace might be better to control condensation but I know there are many who use the Wave heaters so any opinions from those who have used both?

Cassette/porta potti vs Luggable Loo..... I know there are many threads but are there those who have done both and have a preference

I am not too concerned about resale value as I hope to use my camper 'til it cries uncle...lol

Hope I didn't ask too many questions. I'll know if the question police show up at my in box...lol

Thanks for any suggestions or stories. I know there will be good info from this bunch

My thoughts below in red...

Happyjax said:

Hello all,

As many of you know I have been wandering this wonderful site for several years now. I am closing in on my plans for a camper and have been trying to decide my approach to the issue. As for the truck 3/4 ton is my thought at the moment but 1 ton is not out of the picture.....

I am still trying to decide on 6 3/4 bed vs 8ft with an extended cab. Anybody absolutely hate the turning radius on their 8 ft and if you were buying again would you go for the shorter bed or anyone wish they had gone bigger? An extended cab with 8 foot bed is as big as I would go. My crew cab with 8 foot bed is way too big. When I had the old F250 with the Grandby on it would get me most places I wanted to go, but sometimes it was tight.

I read many threads about problems with the water system, freezing, pump failures, tank water tasting funny, and I wonder if there are more than a couple folks who have gone with the simple concept of water jugs, gravity and portable sink receptacle. Water systems are pretty simple, and with basic care they are bullet proof for years. Funky taste is a matter of flushing the tanks sufficiently. On most popup campers, winterizing is a mater of draining the tank, blowing out the lines and making sure the pump doesn't have water in it by either disconnecting the outlet side and running for a second, or using RV antifreeze.

I am wondering how likely a failure in the water pump system is and how hard it would be to fix. Water heater excluded, these systems are truly simple. I think you know I am not an advocate of water heaters in a popup.

If I am boondocking and the pump fails or my house battery is to low am I screwed or can you get water out of the tank with no pump? The tank drain is usually by the back door, left side. You can use gravity to fill water bottles in an emergency.

Many of the water heaters heat 3-6 gallons of water when I would rarely need more than 1. I would think heating a gallon on the stove would be more practical but the water heater might be more energy efficient? I agree.

I like the concept of a basically self working shower system such as the road shower, thanks for showing me that Squatch, which under decent circumstances will heat the water and deliver a shower without using anything but mother nature and when she doesn't cooperate a kettle on the stove should fill the bill. Anyone else using that system or something similar and what do you think? There are lots of portable shower systems that are available. Everything from solar bags to something with a propane heater and a battery to pump it. They are less expensive than a WH and shower in the camper. My favorite is just heating water on the stove and using a small tub.

Anyone use a water purification system for the water you get from available sources on the road? We take a cheap Campco filter with us when filling the tank on the travel trailer and hardside. That said, if the water is from a good source, I don't always use it.

As far as heat I am thinking a furnace might be better to control condensation but I know there are many who use the Wave heaters so any opinions from those who have used both? No opinion here...

Cassette/porta potti vs Luggable Loo..... I know there are many threads but are there those who have done both and have a preference That depends on how much space you have. In a small camper, a PP or Wag Bag system. In something bigger, I would like to have a cassette.

I am not too concerned about resale value as I hope to use my camper 'til it cries uncle...lol

Hope I didn't ask too many questions. I'll know if the question police show up at my in box...lol

Thanks for any suggestions or stories. I know there will be good info from this bunch

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Any date for your retirement?

I think I've been a bad influence!

Good luck on your decisions, gathering a lot of information can be fun, but also overwhelming. When you decide to go a certain way, don't second guess yourself. There will always be buyers regret, it starts the second you sign on the dotted line. That doesn't mean you made a wrong choice, so don't worry about.

I agree starting with the truck is a good idea. Between a 3/4 and 1t these days is very little difference, typically just different spring blocks in the back (in the case of Fords), you'll be happy with either. I have always had extended cabs and the only nit I have is that the rear doors open forwards, can be awkward in tight spaces. No pillar between them though so also an advantage. Agree with Sage, a double cab 8' bed is way too long. Test drive a few and get an idea of what they take to turn and park. As most of our travel time is in reality on highways, having a bigger vehicle does make that more comfortable, at the expense of fuel and nimbleness off highway. It's all about trade offs.

The water heater in ours is a 6 gallon, it does take some time to heat up. But having hot water on hand and not having to warm up on the stove is nice. For "hot" water we do use the stove.

Only problem we've had with our water system was not fully flushing it out and letting it cold soak in the driveway. Did an overnight snow trip and the lines were frozen. Checked things out before we left so just brought along a 5 gallon container. If it's cold enough to freeze the tank/lines while you're active in the camper, you may already be rethinking the location or be prepared for dealing with frozen everything.

I carry a Katydyn gravity filter for refilling the tank if needed https://www.rei.com/product/872130/katadyn-base-camp-pro-10l-water-filter

We like the furnace, no extra condensation, but it does eat up the Amp/Hours. Which segues into solar and battery. Get as much as you can and understand usage. We have 200w of solar and it does great keeping up, if we have clear skies (in the PNW that's always a problem), not blocked by trees (which are areas we all look for), or it's not too hot (had problems starting at about 100, whether from the fridge working so hard, or the panels getting too hot).

What ever you direction you go, you'll enjoy it. It's fun taking some next steps, just don't don't get mired in minor decisions.

We kept our build very basic as I'm not particularly handy with a screwdriver & wrench.

As a result, we don't have any built-ins other than a 12,00 BTU furnace. We carry water in a Reliance 7 gallon container and for extended trips I take along two additional 6 gallon jugs stowed in AT can holders mounted on the back of the camper. I use a restaurant busing bin for our sink.

When nature calls we use a porta-potty/Wag Bag system with either Poo-Powder or just plain old kitty litter. For bathing, we heat water on the old two burner Coleman and sponge bath it, though we'll be upgrading to a Nemo Helio-Shower in April as soon as we receive our REI 20% discount coupon next month.

Cold food storage is in a Yeti 105 which fits perfectly at the front bulkhead of the camper. I have been able to keep ice for up to nine days (w/50% loss) using proper pre-chill/cooler management protocols.

Since I lack the requisite MacGyver skills and already possessed all the gear needed, we chose to follow the KISS principal. Nothing to break so there's nothing to fix.

Lightweight (790 lbs. dry), she's mounted on a 17 year old (142,000 miles) 2WD Chevy 1/2 ton w/ Firestone airbags.It gets the job done for us and we've gone out on some pretty bad roads through the Colorado & Mojave Deserts.

I do plan on replacing the truck in about two years with a 3/4 ton 4WD so I can start to pile on more gear like Aluminess bumpers & boxes, on-board compressor, max trax etc....

Not everyone's cup of tea, but it works for me & the Mrs.

I love this site

Thanks for the comments! I am re reading and soaking it all in. It really is a big purchase getting the truck and the ordering the camper in the same time frame.

Wandering Sagebrush, the plan is early next year I am ready for it!

Thanks again and will read all replies!

Squatch,
You are not the only "bad" lol influence I have. Got this guy at work trying to beat me into submission on diesel over gas....lol I am actually considering it.... ahhh there goes the dough

I'm definitely going 3/4 ton on my next truck, but present 1/2 ton Chev is working adequately and can still tow smaller boat with camper on. Places I go, might be tight turning around with an 8 foot bed. I have 6.5 feet pickup bed, but would be nice to have an extra 1.5 feet of camper space.

I have a shell with a lot of options. Furnace is really nice. I use a 5 gallon jug and a 2 gallon jug for water. I have room for another 5 gallon jug if necessary, but most places I go, you can find water.

I heat water on a stove as needed and do my dishes outside. I have a single burner camp stove to do most of cooking outside too.

I use a Helio shower. Works nice and you can pressurize it. For cooler weather, I heat some water and use a collapsible funnel to fill the shower bag up (added to the cool water in the bag).

Chest type Fridge/Freezer works well too and doesn't use too much power (I have dual batteries and no solar).

Good Luck!

I have had two extended cab trucks with an eight foot box but never a crew cab with the eight foot box. You will be looking for easy parking spaces for shopping. Remember that the turning radius on four wheel drive trucks is longer than a two wheel drive. I currently have a 2001 Hawk on a F150 Supercrew 4 x4 with a 6.5' box. I put Firestone air bags on the truck and recently upgraded the springs after one broke. I bought the camper used in 2015 and have spent over four months in it. In the summer of 2015 I took the unit from Calgary to Inuvik NWT up the Dempster highway and then thru Alaska and the Yukon and back home. The majority of this trip was on gravel forestry roads. The following winter I traveled from Calgary and drove down to the tip of the Baja Pennisula. Many more miles of rough roads. The camper has held up amazingly well. I like the installed furnace when it is cold but carry a 1000 watt generator with me for winter trips. I use a Thetford curve portapotti and empty it every couple of days. After trying solar bag showers i finally settled on shower tent using a simple shower which fits on a 2 litre pop bottle. Two bottles are enough for a shower. www.simple-shower.com/. The main problem with extended trips with the Hawk is the lack of storage space. I believe the newer layouts have addressed this issue. I have built small storage cupboards that fit behind the couch at each end of the side window.If i was ordering a new camper I might think about a smaller side window and more storage. Much of the under seat storage is used for two large bags of dog food. Next project is a simple rope awning for each side. There is an outside drain tap for the water tank that is handy for filling dog water dishes and coffee pots or dish water. It can be used it the water pump fails. I always carry a five gallon water jug which is used in the winter. If you have the furnace on at night the five gallon water jug will remain unfrozen during the day but the water tank will freeze if full in very cold temps. You will enjoy a Four Wheel Camper it gives you the freedom to go places that a hard sided camper simply can't go.

Thanks dbg,

I'm not sure which camper I will get yet but I did like your statement about parking in the real world. In focussing on the camper i sort of forgot to think about real world driving..... i need to keep that in mind. Will check out your shower thingy

First, I will buy a shorter bed but keep my crew cab next time. Turn radius is an issue. But I love my secure space in the cab which is easy to access and totally versatile. So I give up the extra spare and tool box between cab and camper, which takes two feet.
Gravity fed portable grey water storage is easy. Alaskan does this. There is a diverted Knob to bypass the tank if you are where that is ok.
The less pumps the better. XP has three pumps! Two of mine failed within a few months on my XP.
Alaskan has a gravity fed outlet outside the camper so you still have water without a pump. I use it to water my mule.


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I am thinking from the replies that the 6 1/2 footer is the way to go. I had wanted the extra space but I can put a 7 footer in the short bed and still get a Wilco Hitchgate on the rear for my spare. If I put an 8 foot camper on the shorter bed it may hang over too much for me to use the Hitchgate and I don't want to have to try and get one of those big A$$ tires out from under the truck when needed....

Florida, any inside pics of your rig? I really am leaning towards the Alaskan because it gives me the hard side without the overly tall profile..... How are you liking it?

Great opinions, keep em coming!

I have an F-250 with 8 ft bed and extended cab....155" wheelbase and it is a PITA to park in the Safeway lot and at malls. Thankfully that's not where I do much camping! From your post, you are considering almost all the bells and whistles available on most campers today, however things like inside showers are more likely found on 10' or longer hard-sides like the Lance I got rid of.

I had an 8 ft NCO AK and then a 10' Lance and now am looking for an 8 ft CO....to me it is the best of both. I never had a shower and I don't camp for extended trips so a bath-in-a-bucket and a Sunshower worked for us.

Personally I would advise you to go for at least an 8 ft or maybe a 10ft camper. I'm partial to the AK myself. You get maximum sleeping arrangements, stove/oven, porta-potti and if you do cold zone camping, a heater.

But....the more camper you want, the more truck you need. All that stuff is heavy, and a half ton is out of the question unless you are never going to go up a hill/mountain or into the wind. I would counsel you to get a 3/4 ton at least and an 8 ft bed on it. Mine has a 460 cu in gasser in it and gets 9 mpg....there is a tradeoff for everything and since I don't do 15,000 miles a year in that truck, I don't give MPG much as much importance as my daily driver that does get some miles put on it.

In the end, make a list and prioritize things in terms of what is a Must Have or a Might Be Nice or what isn't really important but would probably be included anyway.

Remember this however, smaller campers have very little moving around room and co-ordinating getting up, dressed, cooking, using the toilet, doing dishes, etc. all take up some space and a 6.5 ft camper does not have that based on what you are considering above. Maybe even 8 ft is not enough depending on the number of occupants/pets you plan to camp with.

By the way, that extended cab gives you the luxury of having a few big plastic bins in the truck cab for clean/dirty clothes, tools, etc. that would otherwise clutter up the camper itself. My F-150 did not have that cab but my F-250 does and it is worth the occasional hassle in the Safeway parking lot or negotiating a turn with it to have that extra space in the cab. You can keep the dog in there also or a kid or two if needed and then move some bins from the camper to that space when you arrive at your destination to free up space. the seat is rather hard, but it is what it is....I think the crew cab (four door) is even longer too.

Make the list, find the camper, get a truck to haul it...good luck with the search, if you get an AK I think you'll like it, they are pretty cool and you don't have a soft side when it is in the UP position...those campers are great but you should check out several before making the deal!

Probably not much difference between an extended cab 8' bed and a crew cab 6' bed in overall truck length. I guess maybe it comes down to where you want to store your camera gear ect. In the camper or in the truck cab.

As you know I have the crew cab and a small camper. If I had more camper storage I think an extended cab would not be an issue.

My truck doesn't have a real good turning radius. Even my not quite a full size crew cab Tundra can be a pain to park.

For the long periods you plan to spend in your rig I think the extra room in the Camper vs the Truck may be appreciated. Big difference between long weekends mostly living outside the rig and longs weeks living in it!

All things being equal I think an extended cab will have a higher payload than a crew cab.

Picture inside my camper and realize that a short box camper in a full size will be about the same length inside. Only wider. The extra 2' of length in an 8' camper gives more room for comfortable bathroom facilities and lockable storage.

If you opt for a more equipped camper. I think an outside shower is a good compromise. I personally wouldn't want the extra moisture and humidity inside the camper. Condensation is enough of an issue in many styles of camper. An occasional hotel room or truckstop, campground shower is always an option when traveling.

Diesel vs gas Oh My! Both have pros and cons. Some of the long term maintenance saving on diesels have disappeared on newer models. They are no longer the simple bombproof mechanically injected engines they used to be. You now have to be concerned with emissions testing and exhaust fluid and electronics that they now have. The plus is good mileage, Great effortless power and engine longevity.

But the cost of upgrading to a diesel can rival the cost of a good used vehicle and regular service isn't cheap. It takes a long time and a lot of miles to to pay for the difference. Fuel is currently $.25 a gallon more expensive than gas around here. A large conventional gas engine can move any load you need to move. For most of us the gas engine will last as long as the platform it's pulling. How many rusted out diesel Super Duties have you seen around here lately? Million mile engine in a 1/4 million mile truck. At least in this area. Salt and rust can kill anything. I like both. Both can work well.

You have lots of (fun) choices ahead, Happy Jax! Sioux and I did the minimalist, long range backpacker route for many years. now that inside hot water and yes, an inside shower, 12 volt frig/freezer and a cassette toilet are very nice!

One option to seriously consider is IF you camper is going to be on full time is look at the flatbed models. I'm amazed at the improved "perceived space" between my now-sold slide-in Hawk and my current flat bed Hawk.

My next build (if I do one) will be a regular cab chassis cab 1 ton SRW 4 x 4 with a 8' FWC Grandby, ATC or maybe even an Alsskan flat bed model camper. (the nice thing about a flat bed is you can install boxes underneath which compensate for the lost storage in a regular cab.)

Steve

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Ok thanks.... now I have to consider flat beds....like I didn't have enough choices...lol

Are flat beds worth the extra expense? Not cheap building the flat bed and then the camper is more. How much am I really getting with it?

I would consider it if I felt it was worth the expense.....

Happyjax said:

Are flat beds worth the extra expense? Not cheap building the flat bed and then the camper is more. How much am I really getting with it?

I would consider it if I felt it was worth the expense.....

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IMO, yes. And I'm in a unique position to judge since I had a slide-in Hawk for three years and then switched over to the FB model. The layout is MUCH better for two people and MUCH more storage. However, they are harder to put on and off. I would only do it if it will be a dedicated rig.
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Is anyone making a camper that forgoes the actual flat bed and mounts directly to the frame of a chassis cab truck?

To me the side entrance of the flatbed style is a big thing. It eliminates the issues of swing gates and other extra weight at the rear just to be able to get in the camper with a load back there.

For a dedicated camper the stock bed does waste a lot of space that could be used for interior room or storage.

Squatch said:

Is anyone making a camper that forgoes the actual flat bed and mounts directly to the frame of a chassis cab truck?
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I would be concerned (perhaps needlessly) about frame twist with a direct chassis mount.

No one that I've heard of. So many different frame configurations you'd probably not be able to keep up.

I plan on traveling alone with a small dog who I haven't found yet. Hoping to hook up with folks on the road for some fun and safety but not counting on that. As a photographer I will want to wait to get my shots and that will not work for most people.

The flat bed is intriguing but it's not cheap and the camper will be higher also. I guess I would need to get some real numbers to be able to make that decision....

I did investigate turning radii on the different trucks and on the newer models it is not a large a difference as the older trucks. I will drive to see what I think.

Hope others are also getting info from my querys. I know I get lots from other peoples posts. Looks like a little warm up this weekend