Adding Solar to a 2007 Keystone

I am adding solar to our 2007 FWC Keystone.

Our camper has the IOTA DLS-30 Power Converter/Battery Charger with optional IQ-4 Smart Charge Controller for the DLS as well as the IOTA IDP-30 120VAC/12DC Distribution Panel.

Last year I purchased two Grape Solar 100W solar panels for addition to the camper.

After reading the details of Vic Harder’s, ESUS’ (as well as others) solar panel installations I arrived at the following decisions:

1) The camper was pre-wired for solar but the wires were not connected to anything on either end and simply coiled up in the roof with the other end coiled up near the water pump. I obtained the location of the wires from FWC (thanks Terry Budd for responding to my several emails in a timely and very helpful manner).

2) My calculated daily power consumption is around 50 Ah (+/- 5 or 6 Ah)

3) Initially I will only have the two 100W, 5.41A panels connected in parallel

4) I have replaced the 8 year old 6v deep cycle flooded lead acid (FLA) house batteries connected in series with Lifeline GPL-4CT 6v 220 Ah AGM batteries connected in series.

5) I have selected the Victron 75/15 solar charge controller along with the Victron BVM-702 battery monitor with optional temperature sensor to monitor the batteries.

6) I will connect the battery monitor to measure the midpoint current of the two batteries with the current shunt that comes with the battery monitor.

7) I want to be able to disconnect either or both batteries from the solar charge controller so I also have a Blue Sea m-series battery selector

8) I will be using a Go Power GP-CEP-1 Cable Entry Plate With Red & Black 7" MC4 Cables ending in bare wires

9) A 4"x4" plastic junction box will be used above the headliner and the Cable Entry plate will be screwed through the roof into it and then the entire perimeter of the cable entry plate as well as the screws sealed with 3M 4200 marine sealant.

10) I will leave an option for adding additional solar panel(s) as required (along with another charge controller or perhaps a larger replacement charge controller switched through another blue sea battery selector). I purchased a Zamp roof/sidewall SAE plug to put in the floor pack sidewall so I can make any additional panels “deplyoble”.

11) I do not presently plan to connect the camper to my truck, however, should I decide or need to do that I will likely use a Blue Sea Automatic Charge Relay and large gauge wires. This is not presently in my plan so no additional details have been worked out.

12) The panels will be mounted to 1”x1-1/2” rectangular Aluminum tubing. The tubing will be attached directly to the factory installed Yakima racks on our camper.

13) The front panel will be mounted immediately aft of the forward un-powered vent where it will cover the roof mounted GO Power entry gland. The rear panel will either be mounted in front of the rear fantastic fan or between the fantastic fan and the rear edge of the camper. (there is room to place the front panel in front of the front vent but I worry about it being exposed to tree branches and etc while travelling off-pavement before my brain kicks in to pay attention).

14) The camper has internal front and rear lift assist struts and we also have a crank up speaker stand (occasionally we carry our kayaks on top) so I am not worried about the extra 45 pounds on the roof. Each panel weighs 22 or so pounds.

15) A Blue Sea 2314 MiniBus 5 x #8-32, 2 x #10-32 Common Bus Bar with Cover is used for connecting grounds.

Edit 1: I accidentally left the Victron bluetooth dongle off the list:

16) I bought the Victron VE.Direct bluetooth dongle so I can access the battery data from my cell phone via the Victron ap.


I made up a wiring diagram in powerpoint and saved it as a pdf file (attached).

Edit 2: I need to correct the wiring diagram to show the proper grounding (see the following comment #2 from Rando). I still need to decide if I want temperature or mid-point monitoring. I will likely go with Rando's suggestion in comment #4 but need to think about it and read a bit more on this choice first.


Edit 3: I tried to attach an updated wiring diagram for temperature monitoring instead of mid-point monitoring. I also added a switch for future connection of a suitcase type deployable panel having its own charge controller. - but the combination now exceeds the 500k file limit so the updated diagram didn't upload.

Is there a way to paste images into replies? I have not figured out how to do that. I could add the new pdf or jpeg to a reply if that is possible (I do not have any cloud or online image accounts)..

I am not certain I have the wiring diagram correct so I would appreciate any informed comments.


Regards,

Craig

Quick comments - what is the purpose of the battery disconnect switch? It seems like in one position you have a 12v system and in the other position you have a 6V system (not generally desirable!).

Also the victron shunt needs to be connected directly to the battery negative (before your ground bus).

Finally I think the BMV702 is either temperature or mid point monitoring, not temp ad mid point monitoring.

rando,

Thanks for your comments.

Good point. I do want to be able to isolate the panels (trouble shooting, future mods, etc) but probably no need to isolate one battery separately from the other.

Thanks for catching the battery ground wiring.

I thought he Victron BVM-702 would do both mid-point and temp. It seems that it is actually one or the another as you wrote. I will look into if there is a way to switch between the two. If there is no way to switch between the two then I will consider adding a VIctron 700 as well.

Regards,

Craig

I wouldn't add a second BMV-700 just to get mid-point voltage (that would be major overkill), you could just add a volt meter across just one battery. But if you are replacing both batteries together with new, well matched, 6V cells, I wouldn't worry about mid point voltage. You could check manually with a multimeter once or twice a year to help you sleep better. I also didn't bother with a solar panel disconnect. If I ever need to disconnect them (which I haven't in a year) it is about 10 second with my screw driver.

One other thing you may want to add to your list is one or two of the Victron bluetooth dongles - if you like data, the Victron connect app is super cool!

I tried to add an updated wiring diagram to a reply but cannot figure out how to do that.

Is there a way to attach or paste images into replies? I could add the new pdf or jpeg to a reply if that is possible (I do not have any cloud or online image accounts).

Help would be appreciated here.

Regards,
Craig

ckent323 said:

I tried to add an updated wiring diagram to a reply but cannot figure out how to do that.

Is there a way to attach or paste images into replies? I could add the new pdf or jpeg to a reply if that is possible (I do not have any cloud or online image accounts).

Help would be appreciated here.

Regards,
Craig

Click to expand...

Craig, you can add directly. Click on the full editor and select "Choose File".

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/13441-uploading-photos-to-comments-and-gallery/

ckent323 said:

I tried to add an updated wiring diagram to a reply but cannot figure out how to do that.

Is there a way to attach or paste images into replies? I could add the new pdf or jpeg to a reply if that is possible (I do not have any cloud or online image accounts).

Help would be appreciated here.

Regards,
Craig

Click to expand...

If you upload a pic to your gallery and then grab the link for that pic you can add it to any response/comment, full sized by clicking the picture button and pasting the link there. More details and step by step directions here

Looks like you've done a lot of research and are ready to go. Nice setup!

I second the comment regarding no need for a panel disconnect. I have had to disconnect mine in order to fix a wiring issue and like Rando mentioned, it took less than a minute.

Wandering Sagebrush and ESUS,

Thanks for the information on posting images to replies.

I found an error in my revised wiring diagram so I will fix that and then post it.

Regards,

Craig

Here is the modified wiring diagram.

I am now wondering if I really need the ground bus bar and grounding tie to the camper since the battery negative connects to the IDP-30 distribution panel under the cabinets. I assume (but have not verified) that the IDP-30 is grounded to the camper frame.

Perhaps the added ground is redundant but it may be easier than trying to dig into the IDP-30 connections on the back of that pabnel (there is a large bundle of wires back there all nicely wire tied together).

Is there any issue with creating a ground loop in a 12v system like this if I add the bus bar?


Craig

Better, but there are still some issues with your diagram. The Victron shunt needs to be the ONLY thing attached to your battery negative terminal, everything else then connects to the other end of the shunt - otherwise it can't measure the total current flow into and out of the battery bank.

I also don't think you want the battery selector switch in your circuit. The way it is configured now you could only connect you roof top solar OR your deployable solar to the battery bank, not both, which is what you would normally want. I would remove that entirely as it doesn't really serve a purpose.

Rando,

Thanks for the comments and corrections.,

The switch is 4 way --> off, 1, 2 and both 1+2. But I may remove it based on your recommendation.

I was thinking that in the situation I have kayaks on top I may want to shut off the roof solar and just rely on the portable. Similarly if I don't need the portable I would have that circuit switched off.

I think my issue is having only 120v experience before this.

Regards,

Craig

That makes more sense if the switch has a 1+2 position. But I guess I still don't see the purpose. In the scenario you described, there is no reason not to leave the roof panel controller connected to the battery - it just won't produce much of any power.

We have returned from our 37 day trip through 7 States.

Among a number of places we visited and camped are Big Sur, Redwoods National Park, John Day Fossil Beds, Middle Fork of the John Day River, Stanley Basin, Craters of the Moon, Grand Tetons National Park, Yellowstone National Park, Bear River and the Flattops in Colorado, Crested Butte and Slate River in Colorado, Mesa Verde National Park, Hovenweep national Monument, North Rim of the Grand Canyon National Park. We skipped Zion, Canyonlands, Capitol Reef and Arches National Parks due to the high temps there last week (We have been to Zion and Bryce Canyon before).

At any rate, during the first week I was not getting appropriate performance out of the solar panels so on the recommendation of Rando and Vic (thanks again!) I bypassed the 40 Amp fuse and Blue Sea battery selector during the first week of the trip. The solar panels and Victron charge controller worked perfectly after that. I am still not sure what the actual problem was.

I very much like being able to monitor the panels and the batteries in the camper via the Victron bluetooth dongles when I am in the cab of the truck driving.

I bought a set of remote temperature sensors for the fridge so we can monitor the fridge and freezer temps from the cab while underway. We noticed after one long drive on a stretch of freeway that the refrigerator was warming up. I figured that the propane flame blew out due to freeway speeds. We switched the refrigerator to 12v. It turns our that large Norcold 3-way fridge pulls about 11.5 amps when running on 12V and on average the solar panels cannot keep the batteries charged while the fridge is on 12 V (except in the middle of the day). So I decided to connect the camper to the truck charging system. I used the existing trailer connector and made an adapter but I only get about 6.5 A from the truck through this configuration

During the last week of our trip after getting comfortable with everything we started checking the remote fridge temp with a thermometer on a shelf in the fridge. We found a temperature offset and realized that the fridge was working better than we thought (no wonder we kept getting frozen food in the refrigerator section even though the remote temp said it was 45 degrees in there). After that we decided to leave the propane on and not use the fridge on 12 V. Low and behold it apparently works just fine even at freeway speed. We learned that the temp in the fridge will drift up a bit while underway but the biggest issue was the 8 degree temperature difference between the remote thermometer reading and an actual glass bulb thermometer reading. Once we figured that out we realized the fridge was probably working fine on propane all along.

We had a odd headlight switch malfunction in a campground on the Slate River near Crested Butte. After pulling into camp one night the headlights were switched off, however, the driver's side headlight stayed on (and I did not notice that). Next morning there was insufficient juice to run the grid heaters and then crank the diesel sufficiently to get it to fire. A neighbor camper gave us a jump so it was only a minor nuisance but if we had been in a remote area it could have been a much bigger hassle (i.e. pulling the batteries out of the camper to jump start the truck then putting them back into the camper)..

We had an alternator failure coming back to aour campsite after dinner one night in Mesa Verde National Park. The truck battery had sufficient charge to get me to Cortez the next morning where I bought a new alternator and replaced it in the NAPA Auto Parts parking lot. This was a second case where having the ability to jump start the truck from the camper house batteries would have been a good thing).

We have a club cab Dodge truck and use a medium plastic ice chest behind the center console to keep snacks and beverages in. With a truck cab full of stuff, pulling the ice chest out to empty the water is a PITA. Needing to buy ice every few days is also a PITA.

An initial set of lessons learned
1) Buying the National Park Senior Pass is the best $10 investment I have ever made!!! If you are over 62 and camp in National Forests, national Parks, National Monuments, BLM campgrounds or in State Parks in some states (not California) buy this pass. Park entrance fees are zero (free) and camping fees are 50% off! Yeah, as of September the pass is now $80 but that is still cheap, cheap, cheap!
2) Solar panels coupled with the Victron charger and monitoring via bluetooth charging two AGM 6V batteries works well and the system is reliable. The convenience and comfort in knowledge of the battery charge state from the ability to monitor the battery charge and the solar panel controller output while driving is worth the cost of the bluetooth dongles!
3) It is a good idea to have truck power available to the camper (even if you don't think you need it) if you are using much 12 V power (to run say a 12 v refrigerator).
4) Run big wires (at least 6 ga or better yet 4 ga or 2 ga) from the truck to the camper and install an ML-ACR or a VCR with a switch so so you can jump start your truck from the house batteries if needed.
5) Replace all the camper lights with LEDs. The current draw of LED's is tiny compared to both fluorescent and incandescent bulbs.
6) Put a 12 v refrigerator behind the center console and stop messing with ice blocks.

(these are among the top 10 of a long list of things we will improve in the truck and camper).

Regards,
Craig

Sounds like a fun learning experience

37 days as a first time out with new gear ... brave man! glad it worked out!

I'm envious of your very well thought out solar system, Craig. (I don't know why but any time I see words like "volt" or "amps" my normally pretty sharp brain turns to mush.)

And yes, it is always scary when your truck won't turn over. Since Sioux and I do almost exclusively solo dispersed camping with (many times) no one around for miles I fretted about a similar scenario. So I bought this heavy duty jump-starter. We've never used it (yet) on our truck but it is great to carry out and jump other people's cars.

I don't know if it would turn over a diesel but the reviews say they use it on semis! Well worth the peace of mind for me!

Ckent,

Just wanted to say I enjoyed your trip report, it was interesting. 37 days sounds like a lot of fun, and 7 states is a lot of adventure.

Thanks for sharing!

Poky

Nice trip, Craig!

As Durango1 suggested, a portable jumpstarter is a great idea. That particular one seems a bit bulky. Maybe it's a lead acid one rather than lithium. The little lithium jump starters are the size of two smartphones stacked on top of one another (for v6 gas) and maybe twice the size for ones that will jump pickup diesels. And they have a flashlight and adapter cables to charge all makes of phones and tablets. Prices have come down dramatically.

I have a little one that I carry with me in the truck. It is so small and light I throw it in my backpack or bag when on motorcycle, ATV, snowmobile or in the fishing boat. Never jumped my rig, but jumped several other folks and it still amazes me that some so small can jump start a gas V8 instantly. Since they are lithium, they hold a charge a long time (I recharge it maybe every 6 months and it is nearly full when I do).

The brand I use is Antigravity Micro-start, but only because it was one of the first around when I bought it four or five years ago. Now there are dozens. Costco even sells one. Just find one appropriately sized for the largest engine you might need to jump and you are good to go. For this particular brand, the tiny ones are .0875" thick x 2.8" wide by 5"long and intended for ATV/motorcycle, etc. but will still jumpstart up to a 5.0 liter gas V8. Next size up, up to 5.7liter V8. Next size 6.0 liter V8. Then 7.0 liter diesel one and it is only 1.25" thick by 3" wide x 9" long.

Way easier than jumper cables and takes up 1/10th the space of jumper cables and you don't need to be able to position a second vehicle close to the dead battery. Lot's of brands to choose from. and lots of models within a brand.

I mounted the Victron Solar Charger on a panel that is held against the inner wall of the floor pack under the roll over couch and behind the two 6V Deep Cycle 220 AH AGM batteries.

The panel is easily removable (and reconfigurable).

I mounted the Victron battery monitor gauge next to the other FWC controls in the cabinet face.

Both the Victron Solar Charger Controller and the Victron Battery Monitor have the bluetooth dongles and that makes monitoring the system from the cab of the truck (and within about a 30 foot radius of the camper) a snap using my iphone and the Victron application. I plan to order another battery monitor and bluetooth dongle to attach to my truck battery so I can monitor it as well.

The two 100 W solar panels were mounted to the Yakima racks on the roof of the camper using 1" x 2" rectangular aluminum tubing (cheap and strong).

Here are some pictures of the Solar Panel and controller panel install.

Here are the rest of the pictures: