The most stupid people on earth or just a$$holes? Post your opinion.

We went to Sequoia NP for the T-day weekend. Arrived Thursday morning to a fairly full campground. Took a spot that worked and settled in. Friday morning the site by the river we coveted opened up. I paid for the space and placed my tag, stating purchase date and with the "night paid for" corectly filled in. Left a tablecloth on the table with rocks holding it down., an axe and shovel by the fire pit, a folding aluminum table, BBQ, and charcoal by the table, our gray water bucket, hose, and our leveling blocks by the parking area. Then we went sight seeing in the park.

Returned at 5:15 to find a family of three generations in our campsite. Two vehicles, two tents, a fire going, and dinner cooking. Most of our stuff was set aside, but they were using the table to cook on. I confronted them. "Wasn't there a tablecloth and gear here when you moved into the site?" Silence. Finally the daughter said yes. You have to love kids for their honesty. "And a tag was posted", I added. The wife speaks up. "We thought it was for yesterday." "Really? You had to fill your own out. You didn't notice that the purchase date and night paid for were the same?" No answer. "Even if you didn't, what about all the gear in camp." The wife again, "We thought someone just left it here."

I am visibly upset and not holding back on what I think of them. The husband comes over and says in a low tone, "I just got here. My wife came earlier and set up camp. Will a couple hundred bucks take care of this?" I'm dumbfounded. He just threw his wife under the bus and offered two hundred dollars for an $18 site. I said it isn't about money, you people took our campsite, you need to move.

About then my wife, being a more sensible person then I, started gathering our gear and throwing it in the truck. They have kids, she says, let's just get another site. I followed her lead and we did just that.

So, my first question is do you think they really are that stupid or they just took the site? My arguement would note that based on their gear and the wife setting up the whole camp tells me they are experienced campers and would know how to read a tag and that a tablecloth on a table and gear in a site means it is occupied.

My second question is what would you have done? In hindsight, I feel I should have forced the issue and made them move. Depending on whether you believe them or not, these people are either really stupid or they are just a$$holes. Either way, I think it would have been a good lesson to the kids to not be either if we made them move.

On a side note, the guy next door to them was leaving Saturday morning and offered me his site. The idea of sitting in it all day facing this family and filing the blade of my red axe had me wanting to stay. Again I listened to my wife and we just drove home instead.

A$$holes. That's why I have a deep aversion to even staying in campgrounds. Too many years of dirtbagging and not wanting to be around folks I don't know when out in the brush. Sad to hear your T-Day trip turned out to be an upset, too little time around this world to have days like that.

First, no, never had anything remotely like that happen to me. You went beyond what I think it acceptable, I consider a lawn chair enough to show the site it occupied. I'd probably do just what your wife did. Is that what I should do? I'm thinking in the long run making them move and setting an example for the kids is a better idea.

Where I come from your gear spotting alone would have indicated the site as occupied. If their gear and its deployment suggest experience then poor decorum was displayed by them. As poster Taku mentioned I too tend to avoid campgrounds but last time I visited a mainstream National Park, dispersed camping let alone full on boondocking was highly discouraged. That means putting up with the masses en masse.

As for the question make them move or not I tend to not be confrontational unless #1; people are less than civil at the onset, or #2; decide to make use of my gear. In your case where you already paid and if your receipt tag was still there then I would have to think hard about it. Like your wife, the children factor probably would have motivated me to let it go, unless #1 was in play.

Sorry to learn of your experience....

Hmmmm, without bringing emotion into the picture, I would have brought a NPS ranger in to explain it to the other party. I'm not sure if the woman made an honest mistake, or that's their way of getting a site, but there is no way you should have had to move. Even if you ultimately decided to let them have the site, a friendly chat with the ranger might get their attention, and alter their future behavior.

Ted, we are so sorry your long weekend was soiled by these a$$holes. Yes, this is my answer to the first question. It is sad the kids are exposed to reprehensible behavior by adults in their group. I suspect they have seen it before.

What would I have done? Too bad when you're in the middle of a situation like this you can't just take a time out to think about what is the best thing to do. With the luxury of time, I am going to give it more thought.

I do know, without hesitation, what the Lady would have done. The people would have moved. Whatever it would have taken, authorities contacted; in a civil but firm way these people would have moved. She deals with middle school kids all week. She teaches, models, and requires good behavior. She would have been out of the truck before me.

I'm reminded of a time when a friend (I'll call him Ted) saved my ass@ OvEx so you know what I would have done. And as you know, there is no such thing as apart time a$$hole. So nothing you would have done would have changed them. But you already knew that and you did the right thing because you're better than them and me.

Wow, Ted. Sorry you had to encounter those people. I've never had a campsite stolen, but have worried that it might happen, even with gear left out. So, I bought an inexpensive stake sign that says "Campsite Occupied". Of course, that type of person that you encountered might not be able to figure that out either, if they couldn't figure out the tag.

Ted: Now that I thought about it, you should have taken the $200 offered, then have gone and gotten a Park ranger to kick them out. Might have been a good lesson.

Sad you ran into that small % of jerks that are out there. I have not had this happen when camping, but have doing other things. It only takes one jerk to ruin things for others. Taku is right take the $$ as I don't think you can do anything to change their behavior.

Wandering Sagebrush said:

Hmmmm, without bringing emotion into the picture, I would have brought a NPS ranger in to explain it to the other party. I'm not sure if the woman made an honest mistake, or that's their way of getting a site, but there is no way you should have had to move. Even if you ultimately decided to let them have the site, a friendly chat with the ranger might get their attention, and alter their future behavior.

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As a retired fed who sometimes had to deal with s--- like this (not this exact situation, this is bad), this is the right approach-let 'em know they did wrong, and let everyone else know too. Look I agree they probably did know what they did wrong, so let's introduce Darwin into the mater, maybe teach the kids never to do this when they grow up! But this is emotions speaking, plus allot of experience, they were wrong and need to pay for doing this, but today as a retired fed, I'd do what Ted did with a big dose of the ranger (LE if possible) to embarrass them and maybe they leave-I doubt it.

Look people are stupid, but go back in your own past, you plan all year to go to your favorite place (that's what reservations are for-an is one of the few new things the government does to keep these things from happening)! So you drive all day, and low and behold someone is in YOUR place and you react-my trip is ruined and instead of saying we got here alive so let's go looking for another place to camp and enjoy life you react the way these people did. (This reasoning could come from the fact that I am retired and now enjoy rather than fight with life). Somehow I have been that person who parked in SOMEONE's non reserved place 3 times now in a row; maybe because I don't have a time that i have to be somewhere at a certain time I usually find the neat places cause I'm early or lucky. None of us like to camp next to other people if we can help it(several threads on this on this site). First time I had been in camp several days and truck pulling a trailer showed up, yep I was in his place-waited all year and here I was in his place, "you don't mind do you" well since there was room for two in this side by side-real primitive camp, site, he backed his trailer in( over looking my camp chair and fire hearth), and started to set up camp, them stopped-came over and said "Hey, there are other places to camp , enjoy this spot it's great and as the darkness fell drove off. We all hope that is how we would act.

This spring it happened again up at Medicine Lake and they stayed TWO of them (buddies) on both sides of my camp -turned out to be nice people, but still at least the camping spots were big and I could hide in the camper-unlike pre-FWC days. We all have had the family from hell pull into the next store spot with the screaming kids, c music 24 hours a day and barking dogs! So what can you do, no need to fight over it anymore,move, go get the host, what ever, and there where times I would, hey today, okay be stupid-I don't have to be too. Dumb people can find you no matter where you go, just got to grin and bear it these days.
Sorry about your trip, the next one will be better!

Smoke

I have thoughts and wrote a post but deleted it.I need to have a coffee and give this some thought before I just let the "gumball"roll off my brain.
Frank

billharr said:

<snip> take the $$ as I don't think you can do anything to change their behavior.

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I'm slept on it and am still thinking. I do know I would not have taken the money. To me, it would feel like lowering to their level.

Guys
Well, I just walked the dog, and thought about this all the way up the hill and back; even called my Dad an old camper and told him the story and got the same type of reactions we have been giving here- and now over a cup of coffee and I don't have any new answers and think along with Ski on this, but still maybe taking the money and putting in the donations box might work, i don't think taking the $ will impact the family; just don't know! Made me think of another story that happened during my fed years-hope this isn't a hijack.

I was working up in the High Rock Country before it was an NCA! BLM has two line shacks/buildings in that country, one real nice(Stevens Camp)-stove, kept it stocked with wood and can goods, bunks for 8, gravity indoor water-one of those places that you used to find out in the back country . Use it and leave something behind-the good old days. It was open to the public but you had to share it, not many places out there with good water and shelter. Well the weather started to change to the worse and I decided to call it and ran for Stevens Camp to wait out the storm & there were people there and they were real unfriendly & had lots of guns-no hunting allowed in the canyon-just had my dog. They acted like I was the bad guy, and they didn't know the rules and while in my rights to throw them out I left-didn't even fill my water bags up. Spent the night in a cave, we carried wood/food, and camping was part of the job. When the storm ended later the next day, I got on the radio and called in to the Cederville office and told my story to the boss there. He got in his truck, came out and threw them out of the camp. Don't know if there is a moral to this story, but it seemed to fit with what happened to Ted!

Smoke

Mark Twain has some wisdom on this... More rationale for bringing in a Ranger or LE...



“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

Wandering Sagebrush said:

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

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Thanks Mr. Sage for bringing in Mark Twain on this one. I'm done thinking. Nuke 'em.

Sometimes some of our fellow human beings just don't think. It sounds like maybe the husband was very embarrassed that his wife did not think when she first arrived and took possession of your site, hence he offered you the money. If they were simply trying to steal the camp site, would he have offered to pay $200.00? Hard to say. In any case, it is very unfortunate that you were forced to deal with a situation like this on your mini vacation.

Back in 2010,we got off of a ferry in Petersburg, AK. in the early morning. We immediately drove out of town to a USFS campground, chose our site, paid, and posted our receipt. We left two chairs set up in front of the site to further indicate that it was taken, and left some odds and ends on the picnic table. Then we took off to explore the area. When we returned in the late afternoon, we still had our site, but someone had taken the chairs and the rest of the stuff on the table! We visited every site where people were staying and inquired about our belongings; no one knew anything.

ski3pin said:

Thanks Mr. Sage for bringing in Mark Twain on this one. I'm done thinking. Nuke 'em.

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Me to.I finished my coffee, read the Sunday funnies, had breakfast and think that Twain has said it for me.
But I think it should be brought to the attention of the ranger.
Don't think taking the $$$ would fit into my "KARMA" if you all know what I mean.
Enough said.
I hope the Ted's had worked around this situation and had a good trip.
"news at 11"
Frank

Thanks for all the replies. They have been intersting to read. I have some follow up on them.

In general, I hate campgrounds, and this one had all the reasons why. No host and no rangers patrolling. So car stereos were played all day, a generator ran until 12:30 AM and then started back up at 7:00 AM, a large group of about 20, all against the posted rules.But as LuckyDan notes, not much options if you want to visit a National Park or some other areas like our recent week on the coast.

With no host and no cell service, we would have had to driven to the entrance station to get a ranger. Since it was already past 5:00 PM, not sure there would be one there. I watched the next morning for one to come around and collect the pay envelopes but none had by the time we left around 10:00 AM. However, for the site we moved to I put a note in the pay envelope instead of a payment explaining what had happened and telling the Ranger to see them for the payment of our new site. I left my full name, telephone number, and email address on that note.

Jay, I am no better than you or anyone else. Trust me, if you knew the ideas for payback that were running through my head, you would not think so highly of me.

I lke highz's idea of a campground occupied sign. That would take no space and leave nothing to question. It will become a standard item in our camper.

As to taking the money. I thought later that it would have been fun to take it, put it in their campfire, and then tell them to move. Ahhh, the joys of hindsight.

Ted- with your follow ups-you still did all the right things, no-LE or even a host, what can you do? Another sign of the times, so it's flight over fight-maybe we are getting to old (or smart) to fight anymore and need to find the real back country where there are no people to be ass----(if it exists)! Some People just seem to live for themselves these days, what do they call it the "Me" generation, but still allot of old folks not part of that generation are being rude with generators and all, hope you had a good t-day anyway, see ya out in the back country soon!

Smoke