1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton

[Advmoto18]

Really, you think the Toyota is under powered?

I don't think it is so much that Toyota engines are under-powedered, but rather, where peak torque occurs on the power curve.

Especially, with the '16 Tacoma V-6 engine. Jonathan Hanson penned an excellent article on the 2016 2GR-FKS engine. 4600 RPM is going to sound like it is ready for lift off at Cape Kennedy!

Toyota seems to be gearing trucks to achieve maximum MPG, not for moving max payload/towing. If the latter is your goal, best to look at aftermarket options.

 

[PaulT]

My 2010 Tundra with 5.7 engine and fully loaded Hawk does not exhibit low power issues. In fact, it so easily goes fast so that I use cruise control to keep from getting tickets. In mountains or when also pulling my boat,, I do put it in tow/haul mode.

Pulling the boat, manually calculated mpg drops below 12 in the mountains. Without towing, it remains below 13 in town and between 13-15 on interstate-like roads.

EPA rating said 14 in town and 17 on freeway driving without the camper with 3 people on board. Without the camper, on freeway, I have seen it average 19 for a tank,occasionally

Like many other trucks, trip computer mpg calculations are about 10% too optimistic. YMMV.

Paul

 

[idahoron]

my 05 DC regularly got 20 mpg no camper. I don't have under power issues.

 

[Shadyapex]

Good thoughts, and ones I've been having recently. Last year I sold my "97 Taco and bought a new "14 TRD 4x4 Sport. I have an Eagle with only fridge, sink and range. It's supposed to weigh about 700 lbs. dry so I think I'm well within the 1360 lb. payload even when loaded. I have airbags (usually run about 20 psi) and Boss shocks and it handles pretty well, especially compared to the "97. But I definitely notice a significant increase in braking distance, had to push HARD on the pedal once in a "situation" and it still didn't activate the ABS. So I guess my point is that even if you aren't technically over the payload limit you should be very mindful that you're pushing the envelope a bit if you carry pretty much any camper on a 1/2 ton/mid size truck.

 

[pawleyk]

I'm not sure if this point has been brought up yet, but it seems like many times people seem to think 3/4 ton is synonymous with diesels.. As a few guys have pointed out, the large diesel engines in today's HD trucks are often WAY overpowered for a simple popup camper and a small boat or similar setup..

A new diesel is expensive, and very heavy.

When I bought my Silverado 2500HD new in 2005, I considered the Duramax and Allison option. For the $8k+ extra it would have cost me, I would have had to drive over 300k miles before BREAKING EVEN with the fuel savings.

Combined with the extra 800-1000lbs in weight for the larger motor and transmission and extra cost, I decided the D-max just wasn't something I needed. I do pull heavy 10k lbs+, but only a couple times/year. I can live with 6mpg a time or two/year for the simplicity, and weight/cost savings of my smallblock over the diesel.

Today's trucks have A LOT of power. My 6.0L is the smallest option even available in my truck and even loaded or with a heavy trailer it keeps up with traffic, even over mountain passes. Doesn't have the grin-inducing power of the diesels, for sure, but plenty of go for what I need it to do.

In our situation, where GVRW takes importance over power, going gas in an HD truck can be a good option. My truck has a 9200lb GVRW, but only weighs about 6200 with my larger tires, bumper, winch, and toolbox/tools. It's only a reg cab, so comes out pretty light for a big truck.

Not sure about the other brands out there, but most of the suspension, brakes, and steering components in my truck are identical to what would be found under a quad cab Duramax, but are basically doing the work a 1/2 ton could do most of the time. I just pulled my front brakes yesterday. Still 1/2 of the original pads left at over 160k miles..

I've ordered a Grandby from FWC that should be ready mid-December. The plan is to build a custom bed for the truck, load the camper up, and head south to Argentina next year. I'm estimating I'll be at about 8500lbs loaded for the trip, which puts me 700lbs below GVWR. Not a lot of overlanders out there UNDER GVRW. I bet there are guys running 4-runners that come in near there.

I'm a big believer in being over-prepared and under-loaded. Most of the failures I see out on the road are due to chronic over-loading. Wheel bearings, steering components, etc.

I'm not knocking diesels, or 1/2 ton trucks at all. In farming and construction, diesels definitely have their place. If you don't mind the extra weight, complexity, and cost, but really love the effortless "pull" a big Cummins has, by all means get one. They are awesome.

I just have had good luck with the HD gas I have, and see a lot of guys discussing either- a 1/2 ton gas, or a HD diesel and wanted to highlight a third option.

Cheers,
KP

 

[Ace!]

Excellent points and part of the reason I went gas with my "heavy duty" truck. I wanted more payload and the gas engine offered that, with the same towing capacity.

 

[Atlin]

New user here. After reading through this and several other threads, I have some ideas. I'm thinking of putting either a Grandby or Hawk (shell that I'll build out as light as possible) on a new F150 (2015, Aluminum body). This is an extended cab, 6.5 foot bed vehicle. Weight should not be an issue, as it has a payload capacity of 2200 lbs and the heavy tow package (trans cooling etc.). I'm sure that the Hawk would be just fine. What I'm wondering is what are the downsides to putting the Grandby on this vehicle with the tailgate down to support it in the back? Would be nice to have a bit of extra room inside. I've seen where folks have done this with other medium-bed trucks. Any comments on how this might/does affect how the vehicle drives?

Thanks for any comments.

Greg

 

[longhorn1]

We have a Grandby on a F-250 8' bed. Not sure you want to consider a Grandby on a half ton short bed. Where do you live? What type of camping are you planning on doing? Don't short change yourself when it comes to options, stove, compressor fridge, water tank, sink, hot water heater, furnace, 2 batteries, solar. So much to consider and the type of camping plays heavily into what you need. Good luck with your selection.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Wander The West mobile app

 

[RicoV]

Atlin, welcome to the forum. I'll play the usual odd-man-out again on this topic. I've done basically what you're envisioning, but with a Grandby shell on a Nissan Titan King Cab (6.5' bed). The tailgate was removed to enable access to the spare tire hoist and to jettison ~ 70 lbs of what I consider to be needless weight. A strip of 1" angle iron attached with small chain/turnbuckles to the tailgate engager mounts took its place. Room underneath the 16" overhang to mount my stabilizer jacks and a few other goodies while traveling, also provides the support structure for our 3-layer scissor steps. We like to keep things light, sounds like that's your plan, too ('cuz light is right, right?). ~ 4 yrs doing this successfully, but as the saying goes, your results may vary. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Rico

 

[smlobx]

KP- great comments and certainly something for people to consider. I have a one ton diesel and am very happy with my set up but realize that it's not for everyone. Like you, I'm a firm believer of staying unger my GVWR and most experienced true Overlanders believe that too.

One thing that I keep wondering about is why many people try and put longer campers like a Grandby on a short bed truck. Why not just get an 8' bed truck and have the camper properly set up? I understand that if you have a short bed already you'd want to make it work but there are many advantages to an 8' bed including a larger fuel tank and better handling both on and off road. I know if you want to go on tight trails with lots of switchbacks it might be a challenge but 95% of the time it will work.

 

[Atlin]

My reason for going with the shorter bed was primarily that Ford never made the extended cab with the long bed in 2015, even though it was listed as an option. So, I ended up with the 6.5 foot bed. Part of my plan is to travel from home (currently NV, soon to be CO) to our cabin in Atlin, BC, which is 2400 miles, minimum 5 days on mostly good roads. Other part is "local" trips around the western US for 3 days-3 weeks in length. I'm ok with doing the Hawk, but that requires removing the tailgate or leaving it down. I need the tailgate at the cabin. So, if I have to leave it down anyway, my thought was perhaps having the extra 16" of the Grandby is not a bad idea - generally more room is more comfortable. In addition, egress from the Hawk with a tailgate is more difficult than egress from the Grandby that basically ends at the end of the tailgate.

So, I'm mostly gathering information in an attempt to make an informed decision. I am aware of 'weight creep' as accessories and gear are added, thus my overall concern about the way a 6-5-foot bed truck would handle with an 8' camper. One reason for waiting for the 2015 F150 is that it has a much larger payload than previous models because of the aluminum body. A reason for going to FWD campers is their light weight compared to most others. I would probably get a shell model and add the bits and pieces we want/need rather than the complete model. That way I can consciously keep the weight gain to a minimum while keeping the functionality for our situation.

Rico, thanks for the info. Access to the spare tire is one of my concerns - I was thinking of making an extension for the jack to access the spare while the tailgate is down if I go the Grandby route.

Generally we don't do a lot of serious 4WD stuff with a camper like this but I wouldn't hesitate to go down most 2-track roads like Hole-in-the-wall, UT for example (probably would not go the last couple miles to the river though). I've done enough really off-road stuff in my job that I don't see a need to drive those places any more - would much rather walk it.

Thanks to all for the information. Sure is a different world than 20 years ago with all the good, quick info to be had on forums.

Cheers,
Greg

 

[RicoV]

Yep, in my case, the only (!) truck I could find at the time that gave me adequate legroom (even w/ adjustable steering wheel) was the Titan, and its max bed length was 6.5'. So it was a matter of just making it all work together the best I could. I'll have to admit the shorter wheelbase of a 6.5' bed, and King Cab instead of Crew Cab, has been useful with respect to turning radius in tight situations. I'll also admit that an 8' bed solution would have had its pluses, too. Alas...

 

[dakozicki]

I am new to this. I have never put any kind of substantial load in my 2007.5 Chev 2500 until I bought my fully loaded '15 Hawk. I recently put a leveling kit on the front of the truck to accommodate larger tires. I reached out to the people at FWC and they recommended the Firestone Ride Rights even on 3/4 ton trucks which I had installed. A couple days ago I loaded the Hawk into my bed for the first time and watched it sink the suspension. My daughter ever remarked with a big "Wow!" I said not to worry as I got the compressor fired up and aired up those bags to around 45lbs. It brought the truck right back up to level. Those bags were a good investment.

 

[snuffy]

you could have saved yourself some money by just using the camper as a leveling kit.. that is why most trucks sit nose down..

 

[Bad Habit]

you could have saved yourself some money by just using the camper as a leveling kit.. that is why most trucks sit nose down..

That was my view too. And no need for dealing with leaking air lines

 

[Ace!]

Yep, the point of the rake is that they sit relatively level when loaded. Now, if it was to fit larger tires, that's another matter and one you'll have to deal with when loaded. I'm vacillating now on whether to add another inch or two front and rear but ultimately my truck sits almost perfectly level with the Hawk loaded.

 

[Riverrunner]

I recently put a leveling kit on the front of the truck to accommodate larger tires.

I have them on my truck and wouldn't be without them. Been on the truck 10 years and never an issue. Load up and air up. Now get a set of shocks. Just installed Rancho 9000's and the ride is much better both loaded and unloaded.