Howdy, I am new to this forum. I am looking pretty hard at an ATC Cougar but have a few bumps to get over. The last 15 years with my present camper it has been coolers and lots of ice. I am on a lot of 4wd roads, rough, off camber, blah, blah, blah. I was looking pretty hard at getting a 12v Engel in place of the three way because of the rough road aspect. Then I start hearing that if you want to sleep in the same area as an Engel be prepared for noise. Not a big fan of noise at night in the middle of nowhere, neither is the wife. The heat issue is another worry on hot days. How much heat will they generate in the camper? The Waeco 12v is quiet I hear and a quality unit too. Different cooling mechanism than the Engel. Then I think well, what if the camper battery goes down, or I want to anchor down in an area for a few days longer than I have to recharge by driving. (not getting solar). If I had to add ice to a 12v it would be chore it looks like to get much stuff cooled by the size of it. I am not a big fan of 3way/ammonia fridges and wonder how they work and last on repeated rough road trips? Worst case there is they will fit a block of ice and it would get me by. I have gone back and forth on this so much that it is killing me. I would love to hear both sides of the fence, 12v vs 3way. Especially on rough 4wd roads. Thanks a bunch!
12v vs. 3 way fridge
- Thread starter Rockhound
- Start date
Mark W. Ingalls
Contributors
Welcome, Rockhound
Dear Rockhound--
Welcome to Dirty Dog's little corner of cyberspace. I am persuaded that participating here is a great way to feel really good about people, all the while pretending to only be interested in campers, trucks, camping, and trip reports!
While I personally don't own either one of your options (yet), I am very interested in the responses to your thread. Nice first post.
M.
Dear Rockhound--
Welcome to Dirty Dog's little corner of cyberspace. I am persuaded that participating here is a great way to feel really good about people, all the while pretending to only be interested in campers, trucks, camping, and trip reports!
While I personally don't own either one of your options (yet), I am very interested in the responses to your thread. Nice first post.
M.
EdoHart
Grasshopper
My 3 way hasn't had a problem
Most of my camping involves at least some rough road driving and I haven't had any problems from my Dometic 3 way refrigerator.
Because the 12V will drain your battery in a few hours, I only run it on 12V when the engine is running, or for the few minutes it takes to re-fuel. Once in camp, I make sure the truck is as level as I can get it, then switch to propane. It does need to be level, or with in something like 3 degrees to work properly. Driving up and down hills is OK as there is enough vibration and rocking, etc. to get the coolant to drain out of the coils well enough.
It has worked very well for me. My last trip I didn't measure the outside temperature, but I would guess that it got into the 80s, but the inside of the refrigerator was right around freezing most of the time. I haven't taken ice with me since I got the camper.
Most of my camping involves at least some rough road driving and I haven't had any problems from my Dometic 3 way refrigerator.
Because the 12V will drain your battery in a few hours, I only run it on 12V when the engine is running, or for the few minutes it takes to re-fuel. Once in camp, I make sure the truck is as level as I can get it, then switch to propane. It does need to be level, or with in something like 3 degrees to work properly. Driving up and down hills is OK as there is enough vibration and rocking, etc. to get the coolant to drain out of the coils well enough.
It has worked very well for me. My last trip I didn't measure the outside temperature, but I would guess that it got into the 80s, but the inside of the refrigerator was right around freezing most of the time. I haven't taken ice with me since I got the camper.
HERR42
01110010110101
the new 3-way units have a freezer in them...and it works! i always am out 4 wheelin and i am so glad to not worry about ice....ugh.
clammy, soaked, wet stuff.....and something always gets into the water....butter, beef....and makes that terrible , .... ugh..soup.
the thing will run on propane forever.
parking requirements must be respected though.....if you leave it oriented the wrong way all cooling will stop.
clammy, soaked, wet stuff.....and something always gets into the water....butter, beef....and makes that terrible , .... ugh..soup.
the thing will run on propane forever.
parking requirements must be respected though.....if you leave it oriented the wrong way all cooling will stop.
benburnett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2006
- Messages
- 771
refer
Just a slight correction. The new 3.0 cubic foot refers have freezers in them. The smaller ones that we still use to keep our profile as low as possible do not have a freezer in them.
The only real draw back to the Dometic 3 way is that you have to remember to turn off the 12 volt when you stop somewhere for any length of time. While you are camping the propane will run the refer for a very long time.
You do need to be aware of parking in some what level spot and try to park so that the vents of the refer are not in direct sunlight all day. Once you get used to it, it becomes second nature.
The benefits to me out weigh the draw backs by far though.
Just a slight correction. The new 3.0 cubic foot refers have freezers in them. The smaller ones that we still use to keep our profile as low as possible do not have a freezer in them.
The only real draw back to the Dometic 3 way is that you have to remember to turn off the 12 volt when you stop somewhere for any length of time. While you are camping the propane will run the refer for a very long time.
You do need to be aware of parking in some what level spot and try to park so that the vents of the refer are not in direct sunlight all day. Once you get used to it, it becomes second nature.
The benefits to me out weigh the draw backs by far though.
First, I had a 3 way refrigerator that was new in 1973. It was still working last year when I sold my old camper. That refrigerator was on some rough roads, including a 3 year trip to Africa. Second, we have a 3 way in our Keystone that is probably 25 years old and it continues to work.
I have done a lot of camping in my day, plus sailing our 31 foot ketch around the world. I have used almost every type of portable refrigerator or cooler there is. The neatest one I ever saw was a brine tank that was cooled by an alternator to electric motor setup with three phase AC current and no diodes. This would work on a camper by installing a second alternator on the truck engine and running a three phase circuit to the compressor motor in the camper. The position of the camper is irrelevant to this type of refrigerator.
After our first year at sea, we quit using a cooler or a refrigerator. Once you get use to it, the best way to operate on an expedition is to eat beans and rice, can goods, and drink warm beer. In my humble opinion, we Americans pay too much attention to food, and it shows. Sorry, that is shifting away from your question, so back to the subject.
On the Alaska ferry this summer we could not use the refrigerator in our camper. The propane tank was sealed for marine safety. The ferry did not offer us 110 VAC service. Block ice would not have lasted for the 10 days we were on the ferry system.
Whether 3 way, 12VDC, 110 VAC, or ice, all are a hassle. There are some interesting electronic solutions.
At present and for us, the negatives of a camping refrigerator are outweighed by the positives. We are using a 3 way. One of my camping buddies here in town has a 12 VDC refrigerator with the extra battery power to support it. He is a rocket scientist who loves gadgets. He argues against the presence of propane aboard a RV and makes a good case. I will consider changing to his way if I buy a new camper.
I have done a lot of camping in my day, plus sailing our 31 foot ketch around the world. I have used almost every type of portable refrigerator or cooler there is. The neatest one I ever saw was a brine tank that was cooled by an alternator to electric motor setup with three phase AC current and no diodes. This would work on a camper by installing a second alternator on the truck engine and running a three phase circuit to the compressor motor in the camper. The position of the camper is irrelevant to this type of refrigerator.
After our first year at sea, we quit using a cooler or a refrigerator. Once you get use to it, the best way to operate on an expedition is to eat beans and rice, can goods, and drink warm beer. In my humble opinion, we Americans pay too much attention to food, and it shows. Sorry, that is shifting away from your question, so back to the subject.
On the Alaska ferry this summer we could not use the refrigerator in our camper. The propane tank was sealed for marine safety. The ferry did not offer us 110 VAC service. Block ice would not have lasted for the 10 days we were on the ferry system.
Whether 3 way, 12VDC, 110 VAC, or ice, all are a hassle. There are some interesting electronic solutions.
At present and for us, the negatives of a camping refrigerator are outweighed by the positives. We are using a 3 way. One of my camping buddies here in town has a 12 VDC refrigerator with the extra battery power to support it. He is a rocket scientist who loves gadgets. He argues against the presence of propane aboard a RV and makes a good case. I will consider changing to his way if I buy a new camper.
Just a slight correction. The new 3.0 cubic foot refers have freezers in them. The smaller ones that we still use to keep our profile as low as possible do not have a freezer in them.
Just so I am clear, are you saying that the fridge that ATC uses and sells today do not have a freezer? To put the question another way - Is the freezer an option on a ATC camper?
Thanks
Just so I am clear, are you saying that the fridge that ATC uses and sells today do not have a freezer? To put the question another way - Is the freezer an option on a ATC camper?
Thanks
Star152
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2007
- Messages
- 188
JAW I did a simple test with my Norcold 323 refer on propane....I was using a remote thermometer I got a reading of 19.9degrees f. thats cold.......
Thanks all for the replies. Sounds like the three way works pretty well. As with all things there is no perfect set up. I still like things about the 12v but I think I am leaning towards the three way fridge. I haven't talked to Ben about the freezer option so maybe he will chime in here. Wonder what the size difference is? I see FWC offers a 3.0cf model, is that with the freezer?
DLN
Senior Member
Rockhound,
FWC uses a 1.9 cu ft refrigerator in the smaller campers, Eagle, Falcon, & Ranger I believe and the 3.0 cu ft w/ a freezer in the larger ones. There is a 4 or 5 inch difference in height of the two units so the 1.9 cu ft fits nicely in the shorter height rigs. I'd love to have the freezer section but no luck in our camper. FWC's web site has all the information concerning options, etc. I'm not sure about ATC's site but give it a look also.
FWC uses a 1.9 cu ft refrigerator in the smaller campers, Eagle, Falcon, & Ranger I believe and the 3.0 cu ft w/ a freezer in the larger ones. There is a 4 or 5 inch difference in height of the two units so the 1.9 cu ft fits nicely in the shorter height rigs. I'd love to have the freezer section but no luck in our camper. FWC's web site has all the information concerning options, etc. I'm not sure about ATC's site but give it a look also.
benburnett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2006
- Messages
- 771
refer size
To answer the questions about refer size, we only offer the smaller 1.9 cubic foot refer in our models and it does not have a freezer option on it. It is just a refer. The larger 3.0 cubic foot model that FWC offers on the larger campers has the freezer in it.
To answer the questions about refer size, we only offer the smaller 1.9 cubic foot refer in our models and it does not have a freezer option on it. It is just a refer. The larger 3.0 cubic foot model that FWC offers on the larger campers has the freezer in it.
DLN
Senior Member
Jaw,
I'm very interested in that freezer but the link doesn't seem to work. Could you repost the link? Thanks.
I'm very interested in that freezer but the link doesn't seem to work. Could you repost the link? Thanks.
craig333
Riley's Human
I couldn't get the link for the 3.3 cu ft one to work, but here's the site.
http://propaneapp.server101.com/Propane_Refrigerators.htm
http://propaneapp.server101.com/Propane_Refrigerators.htm
DLN
Senior Member
Craig,
Thanks for the link. The small unit is listed as not currently available so I'll check it out later.
Thanks for the link. The small unit is listed as not currently available so I'll check it out later.
If I understand right the propane refer has a 12 volt fan that has to run to remove the heat from the combustion and cooling. This to me seems like the only draw back. On a hot day you will still have to monitor the battery because of the fan. Please correct me if I am wrong but this is the way I understand it if you don't have a way to vent the fridge out the roof.
HERR42
01110010110101
the "magic fan" was added as a way to improve the function of the unit when the ambient air temp is so hot that the burner box draft degrades.
it does not do much good unless it is above 90, parked in the hot sun etc.
and those fans draw a 100 milliamps or less. its just a little computer fan.
it does not do much good unless it is above 90, parked in the hot sun etc.
and those fans draw a 100 milliamps or less. its just a little computer fan.
benburnett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2006
- Messages
- 771
refer
Winter,
The dometic 1.9 cubic foot refer does not have any fans on it. It runs just fine on propane and the vents allow the heat to escape to the outside.
Winter,
The dometic 1.9 cubic foot refer does not have any fans on it. It runs just fine on propane and the vents allow the heat to escape to the outside.
Stan@FourWheel
Senior Member
Hello winter200
The smaller 1.9 cu. ft. (Refrigerator Only) does not have a fan in the back. We use the 3-way version that can run off propane, electricity, or 12v battery (propane seems to be the most efficient mode).
The larger 3.0 cu. ft. (Refrigerator / Freezer) does not require the vent fan for a proper installation, but we thought it would be a nice touch. You can turn the fan off if you didn't want it (or we could leave it out) and the refrigerator will still have enough ventalation behind it to run properly. But I think it will cool a bit better in really hot weather with the fan running. Most normal camping conditions the fan probably won't even come on.
Hope this helps ...
===================================================
If I understand right the propane refer has a 12 volt fan that has to run to remove the heat from the combustion and cooling. This to me seems like the only draw back. On a hot day you will still have to monitor the battery because of the fan. Please correct me if I am wrong but this is the way I understand it if you don't have a way to vent the fridge out the roof.
.
The smaller 1.9 cu. ft. (Refrigerator Only) does not have a fan in the back. We use the 3-way version that can run off propane, electricity, or 12v battery (propane seems to be the most efficient mode).
The larger 3.0 cu. ft. (Refrigerator / Freezer) does not require the vent fan for a proper installation, but we thought it would be a nice touch. You can turn the fan off if you didn't want it (or we could leave it out) and the refrigerator will still have enough ventalation behind it to run properly. But I think it will cool a bit better in really hot weather with the fan running. Most normal camping conditions the fan probably won't even come on.
Hope this helps ...
===================================================
If I understand right the propane refer has a 12 volt fan that has to run to remove the heat from the combustion and cooling. This to me seems like the only draw back. On a hot day you will still have to monitor the battery because of the fan. Please correct me if I am wrong but this is the way I understand it if you don't have a way to vent the fridge out the roof.
.
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