2016 Grandby Battery and Isolator Install

[pawleyk]

Hey Guys,

So I'm installing my new battery and Blue Sea ACR into my 2016 Grandby with front dinette. I had the camper delivered without a battery because I wanted to install my own dual-sensing setup. Looks pretty straight forward with a pair of 10ga red and black wires terminating in the battery box, but I expected they would have voltage that was equal to my charge line and truck battery.

These lines are dead though, no power to them regardless of if the truck is running, or the camper is plugged in. The camper does have power and runs off the 2nd battery in my truck for right now..

I'm thinking these wires in my battery box must be terminated somewhere in my cabinetry, wherever FWC would generally install their isloator, I'm assuming someplace ahead of the main distribution block. I'm sure I can eventually track it down, but was hoping somebody here could point me in the right direction.

I also found another pair of 8 or maybe even 6ga wire behind the vent grill installed next to the fuses/circuit breakers and below the IOTA converter. My guess is they are the dead lines from my solar plugs?

First pic- Coiled 10ga wires in the battery box
Second pic- Heavier wires behind the vent grill (solar?)
Third pic- Both, trying to give a little bit more perspective

 

[DrJ]

The first picture does appear to be the solar wires.
The second picture looks like the wires to hook to your batteries.

I am not sure where your battery isolator is - it depends on the dinette choice you have - is this a front dinette model?

 

[pawleyk]

First pic of the coiled wires with butt connectors is in the battery box, second are the lines hidden behind the vent grill. Looking at the wires themselves, I would totally agree with you. Their locations make me think otherwise though..

This is a front dinette model, sorry. Should have said that before.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I don't have a factory isolator, but I'm assuming there is a factory location. Everything in the camper so far is basically pre-wired. FWC must use a generic harness for each model, regardless of options.

Made installing my fridge super smooth..

 

[pawleyk]

When I get home I'll power up the solar lines with some jumpers and see if I can get juice to anything that didn't have power before..

 

[DrJ]

I have a front dinette grandby as well. Picked it up October 2015.

I did not have a battery with it but added my own.

My factory isolator is actually in the underseat area of the front dinette on the drivers side.

Here is the link of how I put it together. Hopefully it is helpful to you:

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/11383-diy-solartrimetric6-volts-on-a-2015-grandby/?hl=%2Bgrandby+%2Bsolar+%2Bsetup

 

[pawleyk]

Well,

After looking at your pictures your wire setup looks just like mine. If you say the coiled are solar and the other are battery, it'd be a fool to argue..

My charge line comes in from the truck and runs past the underseat area, but there is definitely no break in it. This does seem like a logical place to install the isolator though.. Kinda shoots apart my theory about just needing to install an isolator into the factory spot to get juice to the battery lines.

Any idea why my battery lines wouldn't be energized?

Your setup looks great, I used your post on power use to decide how much battery to buy.. (200ah 12v)

 

[DrJ]

I'm not 100% sure on why the lines would not be energized.

I would put a 12 volt battery and hook it up to your camper and then try your measurements again.

I also wonder why you would not have an isolator from the factory. Did you request that?
You can order just the wiring from the factory (which is what I did too) but it seems odd that they would skip the isolator.

 

[pawleyk]

Them skipping the isolator was my doing. I got it into my head that I wanted a dual sensing DVSR so my solar would charge my truck batteries too.. I didn't want to pay the $250 to just end up replacing the parts..

I probably should have just had them install it, but I figured I would save a little money and I like doing these install projects. It really comes in handy down the line when something goes wrong to have a clear idea of how everything comes together.

Thanks for all your help, I'll be sure to report what I find when I get it figured out.

I'll disconnect from the truck and hook up the new battery to see if the battery lines will power the camper.

 

[DesertDave]

I have a front Dinette Grandby also. I ordered it without batteries, but with the factory isolator.

I would venture to say that the 10 gauge wires in the battery compartment are the ones that the factory would connect to the batteries - they look like mine did, and I connected them to the batteries. They shoud then power the 12V devices as long as the disconnect switch is pulled out.

The heavier gauge wires would be something I didn't mess with, thus I am inclined to think they would go to one side or the other of the factory battery isolator.

As far as solar wires, the factory controller is installed between the sink and the front of the sink cabinet - and that is where I suspect the factory would terminate the solar wires, from both the roof plus and the rear wall plug. They should be visible via the door to the water pump. Probably 12 gauge wires, two pairs.

 

[PaulT]

I have a 2014 front dinette Hawk. The only difference between it and the front dinette Grandby is the increased size of the dinette area. Below is a photo of my battery area that shows battery, Iota with IQ4 and the battery isolator located just below the Iota power supply. The isolator is the black item with the two white wires. If I were to be installing a Blue Sea ACR, I would consider placing it under the hood in the truck rather than in the camper and run the output of the ACR thru a circuit breaker before running the wires back to the camper.
Paul

 

[pawleyk]

OK,


First off- On my camper, the coiled 10ga wires in the battery box are definitely the solar leads. I ran 12v jumpers to them and had the same reading at the solar plugs.

The heavier (8ga) wires behind the vent panel below the IOTA converter are the battery leads. The battery positive is dead until you connect it to incoming power somehow. It was terminated behind the fuse panel and coiled with another terminated wire, a 12ga black ground line. These two wires were coiled with a third wire, white, that brings power in from the truck and supplies the camper.

Right where all these wires are coiled together, the white incoming power wire is actually two wires butted together. When you disconnect them, one side shows positive voltage that matches the truck, the other side matches whatever the camper has- in this case whatever the voltage from the converter is (assuming you're plugged into shore power).

It's here that I'm assuming FWC ties into the system for their isolator, when they install it beneath the driver's side dinette seat.

I've got the camper battery lead and the lead to the fuses on one side of the ACR and the incoming from the truck on the other. The small black ground I can only assume is intended to ground the relay itself, which is what I used it for.

The biggest issue I ended up having with this install was my failure to consider that, just because my battery would "technically" fit in the battery box, didn't mean it would actually fit through the opening.. oops. I relocated my battery to the under-seat box below the relay and wiring. It's a sealed battery, so I don't think there will be an issue with the location not being vented. It would be easy to add a vent or two, if necessary.

I used most all of FWC battery hardware from the original box, just relocated everything and then hemmed the battery in with some 2x4 scraps and a chunk of 1" decking. This under seat location near the center of the truck seems more appropriate to me anyway. It seemed like a waste of a perfectly good, easily accessible cabinet the way it was before.

So far, the self-installs on my new Grandby have been really easy. It seems FWC has the same basic harness regardless of options, so when you go to install your own equipment everything is right there for you. The only tricky part, as in this case, is guessing how they intended for things to be installed.

I also put in my own Isotherm fridge and it went really smooth. There were already 12v leads in the fridge location, hot, fused, and ready to go. I just connected everything up, shimmed it in and BAM, cold beer!

I'm also planning to do my own fantastic fan, I've heard there are hot leads for them also. Here's hoping.

Facebook album with pics of the isolator and battery install. You can see the white, red, and black wires I mentioned in one of the pictures just after I pulled them from the cabinet.. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10208265848301147.1073741869.1151373766&type=1&l=38a07ce4ae

 

[pawleyk]

If I were to be installing a Blue Sea ACR, I would consider placing it under the hood in the truck rather than in the camper and run the output of the ACR thru a circuit breaker before running the wires back to the camper.
Paul

Are you thinking there will be too much voltage loss from the truck side if I install it in the camper?

 

[DrJ]

That is one big battery setup. Is that a group 8D battery?
No wonder it won't fit into your battery box.

The largest size setup I could get in there was 2 6 volt AGMs.

If I ever did need more battery power, I would consider putting more batteries right where yours are under the dinette seat.

Looks like a fun install. Keep up the good work.

 

[pawleyk]

That is one big battery setup. Is that a group 8D battery?
No wonder it won't fit into your battery box.

The largest size setup I could get in there was 2 6 volt AGMs.

If I ever did need more battery power, I would consider putting more batteries right where yours are under the dinette seat.

Looks like a fun install. Keep up the good work.

It's "just" a 4d.. I measured the actual dimensions of the box and the battery itself is just a tad smaller.. perfect I thought!

Won't go through the door though.. We'll see how the new location goes, but my wife's excited about more cabinet space..

 

[PaulT]

Are you thinking there will be too much voltage loss from the truck side if I install it in the camper?

Not voltage loss but under the hood there is more room to work than in a cabinet plus it's easier to test and trouble shoot from a standing position beside the truck. Laying on the floor hanging half out of the camper upside down and with too little light to see and too little room to get both hands with voltage probes or tools doesn't appeal to me as much as it did in my twenties.

Not that I'm old but I do possess a geezer card.

Paul

 

[pawleyk]

Not voltage loss but under the hood there is more room to work than in a cabinet plus it's easier to test and trouble shoot from a standing position beside the truck. Laying on the floor hanging half out of the camper upside down and with too little light to see and too little room to get both hands with voltage probes or tools doesn't appeal to me as much as it did in my twenties.

Not that I'm old but I do possess a geezer card.

Paul

That makes perfect sense to me.

My truck's not huge, but it's a bit taller than average and I'm a mite shorter. Anything under the hood requires I jump up and at least stand on the front bumper, if not sit on the radiator support..

My isolator ended up in the cabinet under the dinette seat, so it's not too bad to get to.

 

[pawleyk]

I'm back!

I noticed lately that my camper didn't seem to be charging correctly.

My Blue Sea isolator seemed to be "cycling" more than normal, which is to say- at all. It would click the batteries together for about 30 sec, then separate them again. Weird.

I pulled out my trusty multimeter and discoverd that the incoming charge line (from the truck battery) matched the truck voltage- about 13v off, just over 14 when running. That seems normal.

The weird thing is that, when they truck line is connected to the camper battery, the line voltage drops to the mid 12v range. Camper battery is just at 12v, now 11.9 since it hasn't been charging.

This is true whether or not the isolator is in the system. Even if I take the incoming hot line from the truck and connect it directly to the pos post on the battery, the line voltage will drop.

I'm 99% positive the charge voltage should remain the same, regardless of whether or not it's hooked to the battery.

It's the low charging line voltage that was causing the isolator to cycle.

Any ideas?

I'm going to dig into it tonight, simplify the system a bit, and see if I can't figure it out.

Just hoping somebody smarter than me would have a pointer on what to look for.

-KP

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

It sounds like the battery or a battery connection could be the problem. I'd check all the connections, and possibly load test the battery.

 

[pawleyk]

I sure hope not, all three batteries (Dual starting in the truck and the camper battery) are only a few months old..

It does sound a bit like a bad battery though. I'll see if I can scare up a load tester.

Hopefully I've got a warrenty, the camper battery was through Amazon and they're usually pretty good about issues.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

If you're still in Oregon, head into a Les Schwab to load test the battery.