2nd broken turnbuckle connection

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DonC

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I was packing up to drive to Joshua Tree and checked my turnbuckles just before leaving. The front drivers side turnbuckle was laying on the bed of the truck. The turnbuckle itself was fine, but the connection at the camper had snapped. This is the second time this has happened. The other was the drivers side rear.

Anyone else have this happen? Am I simply tightening these too much, drink to fast on dirt roads and stressing too much. Very frustrating and now I'm looking at many hours to remove my camper and figure out how to repair. Frustrating, but perhaps self imposed... I'm not sure.

The more important question is, what if you find yourself with a broken front turnbuckle while on the road. This would be an almost impossible repair 20 miles out a dirt road in Death Valley - no jacks to lift the camper, not likely to have these spare parts, tools, etc. So, how far and how long and how fast would/can you drive with a missing front turnbuckle? How much margin of engineering/safety is there for driving with one front tie-down before it flies off the truck? Is there a temporary field "repair that can be done with a heavy strap or something for that side?
 
Sorry to see it, DonC...

Can you tell us more about what you mean by the "connection to the camper"?

That changed over the years. These are the possibilities I'm aware of (there may be more)

1- Elevator bolt (only) above / forged eye below
2- Elevator bolt (or other grade 3 bolt) through backing plate above / forged eye below
3 - Grade 8 bolt through backing plate above / forged eye below
4 - Three (grade-8?) bolts through backing plate above / slotted angle below

The thread below has some pix and I see post 15 says FWC started seeing problems with bolts snapping off after they (or customers) added backing plates above to prevent the elevator bolts from pulling through. But going to grade-8 bolts was reported to resolve it.

So what do you have and what broke on yours? Bolt or eye nut? And was it the same with your earlier problem?

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/4814-eyebolt-source/page-2

Edited to add---

After posting the above I found another DonC post indicating the earlier break was an eye nut. I happen to have my camper off the truck and see the eyenuts on mine are a Chicago Hardware C-187A. That led me to http://www.chicagohardware.com/catalog/27_28_eyenuts.pdf where I see the C-187A has a load limit of 1240# and you can see the load limits of larger sizes. Upsize time? Other factors at play here?
 
I started poking around and discovered that by removing the water tank cover I could access the connection point (2012 Fleet with roll over couch).

Single bolt with aluminum backing plate. So an easy fix. Sure glad I looked around before going to the effort of removing the camper, or worse yet, taking a day off to take it to the dealer.

I know nothing about bolts, I've seen discussion of "grade 8". Is that what I need? Is that stainless steel?

Other than upgrading the bolt is there any else I should do while I'm at it? Provided all are accessible I will replace all 4.

football - where do you attach the ratchet straps? I'd like a field repair option for the future.

IMG_0109.JPG
 
My 8.5' Phoenix camper from Coyote RV (on a '91 Dodge 3/4 ton diesel) comes with ratcheting straps instead of turnbuckles. I don't usually go on really rough roads but they have held up really well for the past 5 years. It seems to me that the fabric straps are very sturdy but still offer a bit of give and as such save eye bolts etc. from too much strain.
 
When we were shopping for a truck and studying all the choices we developed a theory which could be controversial: C-channel flexible truck frames increases the load on camper tie-downs. Picture c-channel frame flexing while going over undulating terrain and then add a camper attached at four corners. The weight of both the truck and camper, over 6000 pounds, can be applied to the camper tie-downs as the camper stiffens the flexible truck frame. My guess is a flexible frame could require tie-downs with some spring action if you go over undulating terrain.
 
DonC-

Probably best to give FWC a call or email for their current recommendation. The post I linked to was a 2011 one and their thinking may have changed since then.

In your original post you said you were getting ready for a trip. I'd think you could get a quick answer from FWC but if I had to go NOW, I'd run down to the local Lowe's with the existing bolt and look through the Grade 8 bolts drawers in the hardware section for the best match I could get. Note that you might have to replace your carriage bolt with a classic hex-head bolt if there are no Grade 8 carriage bolts and you'll want to consider the implications (the head will be slightly thicker and you'll no longer be able to depend on the square part of the carriage bolt to keep it from turning during installation/removal)

Here's a chart on bolt-head markings which indicate their grade....

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/materials-and-grades/bolt-grade-chart.aspx

(I see there are no Grade 3 markings yet we find references to grade-3 bolts in threads on the subject. I'm guessing what's happening there is we look at the head and see three radial lines and call it a grade-3 bolt when it's actually a grade-5 bolt in engineering terms. That's just a guess, though.)

Also- that eye nut doesn't look like my C-187A. Does it have a number on it?

I can't quite tell from the photo --- are there markings on the head of the broken carriage bolt? If there are none, just going up to a Grade 5 would be a strength improvement and may be a same-for-same replacement in form-factor.

On your longer term question, again, I'd contact FWC for recommendations on your specific setup. That may range from replacing the existing bolt with a stronger one and being done with it to going with the newer three-bolts-backing-plate up / bracket-below setup. (I saw a pic of it here on WTW but can't find it right now). Then you'd have to decide what seems best.

Oh, yeah--- you also asked, "is that stainless steel". You can get stainless steel bolts in various grades but, no, the term Grade 8 is not another term for stainless steel.

-OC

PS- Fastenal tech reference-- fascinating reading about how complex bolt-engineering is ....

http://www.fastenal.com/content/documents/FastenalTechnicalReferenceGuide.pdf
 
I had a couple thoughts on this issue.
First, good for checking the mounting / turnbuckles every so often.

Second, good luck finding a graded carriage bolt to replace what broke - I spent some time in the past and never could locate any.

Third , something is causing extra force beyond the strength of the factory carriage bolt. If you replace that hardware with something stronger, what will be the next weak link in the chain? Among the various upgrade options, don't totally throw out the idea of just carrying a couple extra carriage bolts to replace failed fasteners. Might be easier to deal with instead of finding out the next weak link is harder to replace - ie. ripped out wood ,or the eye breaks and you have nothing to connect the turnbuckle to in the field.
 
DesertDave said:
I had a couple thoughts on this issue.
First, good for checking the mounting / turnbuckles every so often.

Second, good luck finding a graded carriage bolt to replace what broke - I spent some time in the past and never could locate any.

Third , something is causing extra force beyond the strength of the factory carriage bolt. If you replace that hardware with something stronger, what will be the next weak link in the chain? Among the various upgrade options, don't totally throw out the idea of just carrying a couple extra carriage bolts to replace failed fasteners. Might be easier to deal with instead of finding out the next weak link is harder to replace - ie. ripped out wood ,or the eye breaks and you have nothing to connect the turnbuckle to in the field.
Click to expand...
I'm of the same belief as DesertDave. If you replace with stronger eye bolts you risk shifting failure points. There was a pretty extensive debate about other putting in turnbuckles with stronger hooks. Unless I missed it you mentioned you might be over-tightening but didn't mention how tight you make the turnbuckles.
 
Don,

Lots of folks have had the same problem, I caught mine while it was bent before it busted. It looks like you have a fastenal near you in Redlands. I'd take the broken bolt to them and ask for a Grade 8 to replace it. It will have a regular hex head not the rounded carriage bolt head, you might want to get a washer while you are at it to spread the load. Hopefully you already have an aluminum plate on the inside of the camper that the bolt goes through.

If you are in a hurry you can always get a couple of carriage bolts at home depot to work for your Jtree trip and replace them later. Make sure that the camper is pushed all the way forward against the front of your bed, loosen the back turnbuckles if you need to to make sure. Tighten the front turnbuckles first, I make them as tight as I can using a gloved hand only, no tools. Then tighten the back turnbuckles. There is a lot of info on the site regarding attachment failure that you can check out, I personally think the stock attachment is inadequate and worked out my own system.

Good Luck
 
I've had no failures on my 2014 Grandby but after some (more) real rough roads I checked and the front passenger side turnbuckle was loose. I think any looseness will allow jerking that might break a bolt. I am more worried about the underside washer jerking upward against the truck bed. That bed sheet metal is not very thick. Didn't I see earlier discussion of this topic where the sheet metal was splitting and the fix was bigger washers - big thick underside plates in face.?
 
For the ones that have had turnbuckles loosening our something in the connection breaking, eyebolt, camper attach point, I'm curious about what the camper is sitting on in the bed, spray in liner, rubber mat, both, something else? Trying to see if there's something else in common other than the attaching hardware.
 
Don,

If I remember right 4Wheel recommends mounting directly on the bed w/no mat or liner, Stan could tell you for sure.
 
Go with grade 8 if you can get them. Stainless bolts are not strong enough for what you need.
 
BillM said:
Don,

If I remember right 4Wheel recommends mounting directly on the bed w/no mat or liner, Stan could tell you for sure.
Click to expand...
Interesting, they did the install, twice, and did not mention this... they even made cuts in it for the bed mounting bolts, so they certainly knew it was there
 
I have a Black Armour 1/2" mat under my Hawk, there has been no camper movement and all turnbuckles are still tight since mid-April install at the factory. Installer was impressed with this mat.
 
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