Actual cost difference of a diesel engine

[DirtyDog]

I know there are more factors with a diesel than just fuel economy, but fuel economy is a biggie these days so lets do some math.

Basic assumptions:

Diesel version of truck is $6,000 more.

Gas is 4.50 per gallon

Diesel is 5.15 per gallon

Gas truck loaded with camper gets 10 MPG

Diesel truck loaded with camper gets 14 MPG (people have been reporting poor fuel mileage for the newer diesels)

Given those numbers - it will take 70,000 miles of driving to save the $6,000 I shelled out up front.

I'm not sure it's worth it. I'm not going to be pulling anything so I don't need the torque. One question though - is a 300 HP V8 in a Ford F250 underpowered for a truck of that size?

Are the assumptions I made in the calculation correct?

 

[pvstoy]

I don’t own a diesel so I can’t answer.

What about maintance? Cost of oil changes take more oil.

But you could get a camper and install a diesel stove and furnace and get away from the propane.

 

[Alex]

I've a 300hp Tacoma, S/C 4.0 V6, but I wish I have got a 3/4 ton diesel.
Tacoma works but it's working hard. The 3/4 ton diesel truck will carry the camper with ease. The whole chassis is more capable. The Tacoma can barely handle the weight and that is after air bag, add-a-leaf, load range D tires, and Bilestine shocks. Not sure about the new Tundra. It's not the horse power when carrying load, it's all about torque.
After spending so much $ on the Tacoma I can't replace it with a 3/4 tone truck. If I can start over, I'll get a 3/4 ton diesel. With gas price on the rise, there are some great deals on very new used, 2006 or 2007, 3/4 ton diesel trucks. My 2 cents.

 

[EdoHart]

I don't know how long you keep a truck, but I put 200K miles on my Toyota, 120K (so far) on my Dodge and have almost 28K total (14K of that is my driving it) on my Chevy, so for me it's a winner in the long run.

As far a maintenance, I figure that's almost a wash. Diesels require about twice as much oil, but they don't have spark plugs, wires, distributor, rotor or cap. Because of "engine brake," I don't use my brakes nearly as much, especially when descending long mountain roads. Maybe that's because the Allison transmission is designed to help slow the truck and not just move it forward - it's amazing to see how aggressively it down shifts when in tow/haul mode, cruise control set and descending a 7% grade. Repairs to a 3/4 ton are going to cost more because the parts are heavier duty, but considering I'm only using the truck at about 50% capacity and a 1/2 ton would be at about 85% or more capacity I hope to go longer before replacing things like brakes. An idling diesel engine uses quite a bit less fuel per minute than an idling gas engine.

 

[EdoHart]

One more thing.

I forgot to add that a lot of people I have talked to reported pretty poor MPG for their diesel when it was new, but after a break in period (some have said as much as 25K miles), the MPGs jump. Mine has been pretty consistent since I bought it at 16K miles. Maybe part of the poor MPG performance is the newer trucks with the Diesel Particulate Filter don't have enough miles on them yet.

 

[Bat]

IF you change those number around just a little bit 15/16mpg it does not sound so bad. My last trip 1100 miles I averaged 15 mpg up to Sequoia and over to yosemite from San Diego not to bad. Like Alex said I have know problem loading this up with a camper and gear it will drive the same. Making some trips with gassers to mexico and in my friends diesel the mileage is really noticed and makes them a little mad.

 

[ScottBailey]

My Opinion RE: Diesel Cost

DD:

Here is my $0.02: diesel is not cost effective. It's close. But it is currently costing me more to own diesel than gas. If diesel costs are closer to gas, I'll be in better shape, but not until then.

That said, my turbo diesel is a joy to drive. If you buy the diesel you won't regret not buying diesel, and I doubt you'll regret not buying gas.

Get the diesel.

Also, spend the extra $400 and get the F350. Again, you won't regret not buying a sturdier truck. (My mistake on my prior truck.)

SB

 

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

Something else that can be considered is that Diesels generally have better resale. OCI are generally longer for Diesel as well.

Neither choice is going to be cheap for any of us... I still prefer Diesel... LOOOOVVVVEEE that Diesel Torque curve! It's always fun to pull away from all the gassers on the hills when we're towing the Jeep with the Cummins not even breaking a sweat.

 

[winter200]

One factor you didn't include in your calculations would be the resale of the diesel over the gas.
It really depends on how well you like running the rpms to get the hp to make up for the loss of torque.
Diesel engines typically have extended service intervals.
The extra money for the diesel isn't just the engine but the extra tranny to go with it.
My new 08 gets less mpg than my 04 did but from what I have been seeing/reading it will come out of it when it breaks in. I think the key to the new vvt diesels is to keep the speed down so the turbo stays in check.
Although most don't like the new emissions on the new diesels, they are starting to grow on me. Its amazing on how clean the new ones run/smell.
Diesel = want/love to drive
Gas = work/have to drive

 

[ScottBailey]

I think the key to the new vvt diesels is to keep the speed down so the turbo stays in check.

I agree. Keeping boost pressure down keeps MPG up; however, the cost is slow takeoff and long acceleration phases. Takeoff might be better w/ manual tranny, but I have an auto (for my wife).

Good point on resale.

 

[chnlisle]

I'm testing an additive that another CTD owner says gets a 2 -4 mpg increase with. I dont want to give up the name until I can prove it to myself. The stuff is from England and its been around since '85. I'm headed up to Phoenix Friday (200 mile rt). That should give me some idea. My buddy claims he got 21 going from Ventura to Flagstaff last week doing 75mph and climbing. I'll let you know.

 

[the fisherman]

There Ain't No Way

I'm stuck at home now for a few days, i'm already bored lookin' for something to do, but I learned the hard way,don't get involved with this.

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

Right now, there is no added resale value for a diesel engine vs. gas in a used truck.

Here, for example, is a listing within driving distance of Bend, OR-- F250 CC 4x4.

Which calls one to question, "Why should I buy new vs. (not really that) used?"

We purchased a barely used two year old truck for $20,000 less than the lowest priced new comparable. We didn't get a warranty, which would have cost an additional $2k for 24,000 miles. We can afford to fix a lot of stuff for that load of cabbage.

 

[chnlisle]

Mark,
I paid 28K for my '06 in December of '06 with CTD, autotran, woven vinyl seat,towing package,and not much else. Black plastic grill no power windows doors or seats. My guess is that kind of buy is still out there.

Salty, Stir the pot.

 

[craig333]

I haven't seen what its like lately, but when I was looking for a truck I started looking for used. Thats when I found the resale value for the used Dodges was so high I might as well buy a new one. Diesel prices may have changed that now.

Also with a diesel, if you really had to, you could always dump some straight vegetable oil (svo) in it. Try finding a replacement gasoline source in your kitchen

 

[the fisherman]

I Bet Your Glad I'm Home

Mr. Pueblo, I was going to wait until the pain killers wore off, thinking I could put up a better fight, realize now thats just not possible, they gave me the jumbo jar. Woven vinal seats, crank windows, I can see the school bus connection, it's just what I thought when I looked at the interior of the Dodge. It must bring back fond memories of those 30 wonderful years hasslin' with those Navistar powered school buses.

 

[winter200]

I agree. Keeping boost pressure down keeps MPG up; however, the cost is slow takeoff and long acceleration phases. Takeoff might be better w/ manual tranny, but I have an auto (for my wife).

Good point on resale.

The new vvt turbos are all computer controlled to try to keep the turbo spooled up. I have not had a chance yet but with programers like efi live you can reprogram to reduce desired boost at different maps. One could leave it alone on the lower gears to maintain takeoff but reduce it in high gear to make the truck "labor" more at highway speeds. Unless one is pulling a big load there is no sense in using everything it has available to run a pickup and box camper.

 

[winter200]

Right now, there is no added resale value for a diesel engine vs. gas in a used truck.

Here, for example, is a listing within driving distance of Bend, OR-- F250 CC 4x4.

Which calls one to question, "Why should I buy new vs. (not really that) used?"

We purchased a barely used two year old truck for $20,000 less than the lowest priced new comparable. We didn't get a warranty, which would have cost an additional $2k for 24,000 miles. We can afford to fix a lot of stuff for that load of cabbage.

If you have the money to pay cash its one thing but with the 0% and 100k warranty, there is no way I could justify buying a used one. If one has the cash available it would do you better to get 0% and invest your cash someplace else. There will always be people/companies that need the power of a diesel.

 

[lqhikers]

P*****g contest

I set here waiting to continue the journey next week reading the back and forth about gas/diesel and it makes me wonder what is going on.All rigs have their plus's and minus's.
I for one think we have put ourselves in this position by greed,we want everything in our rigs then complain when they do not live up to was told us by the hype put out by the dealer's, after market suppler's,etc.
I hear about all the problems with turbos, electronic's, fuel,dealer service,having to buy rigs that are not set up the way we want(I'm still sorry i fell into this and bought a new toyo).
This leads to my next thought,which is trust.I do not trust my truck to not break down and not be able to make it back from where ever i'm at when it breaks,yes they run great when they run but are dead when they quit.I feel sorry for people that do not have the experience and physical ability to be able to make sure they can get out of such a spot,when i know that i will not be able to return with out my rig i will quit exploring the back country.
As some of the members remember as i do the days of chevy inline 6,stick shift,no electronics,no ac,(or vw),you get the picture,but no matter what happened we were always able to get the rig back,sometimes it took awhile(bus trip back to the border to get parts,but you knew what it took to get back on the road again.
And yes i use the a.c.,but i still turn it off when i leave the paved road,how can you enjoy the world closed up in a sealed room?
If they would come out with a standard basic truck of the mid 70's i would be the first in line to buy.
So back to my title,the thread still sounds like a p*****g contest!
No one needs some of these rigs for recreation,unless you are towing and then i question it.( i still miss my 4 banger!)
That is my rant for now so i will go back to my porch swing and watch the sun go down!
Drive slow and enjoy "its the journey"
Les,Lqhikers

 

[DirtyDog]

I believe this is more about making the best informed choice when making a very large purchase more than it is a "pissing contest". I rode my mountain bike from Oregon to Montana once. Doesn't get more "back to basics" than that

Anywho, I've made my decision, thanks to everyone for their input.


I set here waiting to continue the journey next week reading the back and forth about gas/diesel and it makes me wonder what is going on.All rigs have their plus's and minus's.
I for one think we have put ourselves in this position by greed,we want everything in our rigs then complain when they do not live up to was told us by the hype put out by the dealer's, after market suppler's,etc.
I hear about all the problems with turbos, electronic's, fuel,dealer service,having to buy rigs that are not set up the way we want(I'm still sorry i fell into this and bought a new toyo).
This leads to my next thought,which is trust.I do not trust my truck to not break down and not be able to make it back from where ever i'm at when it breaks,yes they run great when they run but are dead when they quit.I feel sorry for people that do not have the experience and physical ability to be able to make sure they can get out of such a spot,when i know that i will not be able to return with out my rig i will quit exploring the back country.
As some of the members remember as i do the days of chevy inline 6,stick shift,no electronics,no ac,(or vw),you get the picture,but no matter what happened we were always able to get the rig back,sometimes it took awhile(bus trip back to the border to get parts,but you knew what it took to get back on the road again.
And yes i use the a.c.,but i still turn it off when i leave the paved road,how can you enjoy the world closed up in a sealed room?
If they would come out with a standard basic truck of the mid 70's i would be the first in line to buy.
So back to my title,the thread still sounds like a p*****g contest!
No one needs some of these rigs for recreation,unless you are towing and then i question it.( i still miss my 4 banger!)
That is my rant for now so i will go back to my porch swing and watch the sun go down!
Drive slow and enjoy "its the journey"
Les,Lqhikers