craig333
Riley's Human
Just ran across this site. http://www.altitude.org/altitude_sickness.php
Altitude
- Thread starter craig333
- Start date
takesiteasy
Senior Member
Interesting article. My wife and I are flat-landers and got AMS without knowing what it was on a trip west. We drove from Nebraska (elev. 2800 ft) to Golden Gate Canyon Park outside of Denver in one day where we camped at elev. 10,000 ft. A few hours after making camp, both of us got bad headaches and felt lousy. Altitude sickness didn't occur to me until later when I was checking maps and noticed the elevation. We weren't that far off the highway and just a short time out of the city. Didn't sleep well but by morning we both felt fine.
Good information on AMS, HAPE, HACE, and also hypothermia, thanks Mr. Mumbles.
I think I experienced AMS once -- the first time I climbed Mt. Shasta (~14,180'). I was so out of it, semi-sick, that I forgot to sign the summit register. But maybe it wasn't really AMS, just some other hypoxia and fatigue. I don't remember now exactly what symptoms I had.
On a later climb of Mt. Shasta I felt fine. And I felt fine a couple of years ago on the summit of White Mt. Peak (~14,250').
I've never been at a higher elevation than that, so I don't know how I'd fare at really high altitude.
And the article states that it may take hours at high altitude for AMS to show...so just climbing a high mountain may not result in AMS unless you camp on the summit. I've camped at ~11,000 feet for several days at a time in the White Mts with no ill effects.
It's interesting and kinda surprising that susceptibility to AMS isn't related to fitness level.
On a later climb of Mt. Shasta I felt fine. And I felt fine a couple of years ago on the summit of White Mt. Peak (~14,250').
I've never been at a higher elevation than that, so I don't know how I'd fare at really high altitude.
And the article states that it may take hours at high altitude for AMS to show...so just climbing a high mountain may not result in AMS unless you camp on the summit. I've camped at ~11,000 feet for several days at a time in the White Mts with no ill effects.
It's interesting and kinda surprising that susceptibility to AMS isn't related to fitness level.
Basin Deranged
Senior Member
Good article.
I'm surprised the author didn't mention the other rather alarming symptom of Pulmonary Edema, which is that breathing sounds like sucking up the last bits of milkshake through a straw. But my experience is very limited. I have heard this distinct and alarming sound in the only case of HAPE that I have encountered in the mountains and assumed that it was universal. Anyone know if this is a symptom that is not always present?
I'm surprised the author didn't mention the other rather alarming symptom of Pulmonary Edema, which is that breathing sounds like sucking up the last bits of milkshake through a straw. But my experience is very limited. I have heard this distinct and alarming sound in the only case of HAPE that I have encountered in the mountains and assumed that it was universal. Anyone know if this is a symptom that is not always present?
pvstoy
Senior Member
I have not climbed in a while but it is always good to review and keep up on this information. Thanks for posting. I crew lead on the Tahoe Rim Trail and some volunteers come to work from a lower elevation and it is good to recognize these symptoms.
That's one of the most important things to remember with AMS and hypothermia - recognize the signs and symptoms - because both are easy to treat in the mild/early stages but can become life threatening if not attended to.pvstoy said:
SunMan
King Taco
I have had a couple of mild instances of AMS over the years at high camps in the Sierra's, but very minor and rare.
However, I had a much more intense experience while trekking to Everest Base Camp back in 1994. I can remember happily traipsing through 13K',14K' and even 15K' without issue. I also remember my Sherpa guide being quite surprised that I did not need to acclimatize an extra day at Periche (14K') which in hindsight we probably should have done. The next day we made camp early at Gorak Shep (~16,900'); it was there I hit the wall. Loss of appetite, lethargy, etc. I've never felt so tired. I slept the better part of the day and finally took some tea in the afternoon and felt a little better.
Fortunately I felt up to making the climb up to the top of Kala Patthar (18,200') late that afternoon for the most incredible views of Everest. Weather moved in shortly after that and I never would have seen her in all of her glory. To have hiked 20 something days and not seen her would have been devastating.
I can't imagine getting to the point of HAPE or HACE, what a horrible experience that must be. In either case, AMS is no joke.
However, I had a much more intense experience while trekking to Everest Base Camp back in 1994. I can remember happily traipsing through 13K',14K' and even 15K' without issue. I also remember my Sherpa guide being quite surprised that I did not need to acclimatize an extra day at Periche (14K') which in hindsight we probably should have done. The next day we made camp early at Gorak Shep (~16,900'); it was there I hit the wall. Loss of appetite, lethargy, etc. I've never felt so tired. I slept the better part of the day and finally took some tea in the afternoon and felt a little better.
Fortunately I felt up to making the climb up to the top of Kala Patthar (18,200') late that afternoon for the most incredible views of Everest. Weather moved in shortly after that and I never would have seen her in all of her glory. To have hiked 20 something days and not seen her would have been devastating.
I can't imagine getting to the point of HAPE or HACE, what a horrible experience that must be. In either case, AMS is no joke.
OP
OP
craig333
Riley's Human
Not sure if I've ever had it but when I was up in the Whites after a good day of hiking I had a headache. Could have been many things but I opted to be safe and headed back downhill. Just in case.
When I backpacked a lot in California's Sierra Nevada Mountains, especially from the east side trailheads that are over 10k feet (a few are over 13k feet), altitude sickness was a frequent problem. It was sometimes accompanied by migraines and throwing up. It went away after a day or so. I hiked up Mt. Whitney twice and had nasty headaches both times until I dropped in elevation. Part of the price of getting into those areas. No lasting side effects I am aware aware aware of.
On the last day of a week-long backpack my wife got pulmonary edema--we could hear the gurgling in her lungs--while heading up to the last high pass. With no other way out, we (3 of us) split up her pack and guided her over the top. As soon as we dropped down the other side a couple thousand feet she recovered. A memorable trip.
On the last day of a week-long backpack my wife got pulmonary edema--we could hear the gurgling in her lungs--while heading up to the last high pass. With no other way out, we (3 of us) split up her pack and guided her over the top. As soon as we dropped down the other side a couple thousand feet she recovered. A memorable trip.
Lighthawk
Weekend warrior
A little late to the party, but I'll share my brush with pulmonary edema:
I went to Peru for three weeks in 1999 with a group of climbers. Our ultimate goal was Huascaran, the tallest mountain in Peru at 22,205', located in the Cordillera Blanca. After spending most of 24 hours flying to Lima (sea level), we immediately took private transportation to Huaraz (10,000'). Two days later we were at the trailhead at the approach for Pisco and spent the night at 12,000'. I took a good hike to photograph the quebrada llanganuco (valley) and probably gained another thousand feet. It was foolish to go up so fast.
The next morning our group of five shouldered enormous packs and started hiking. I'm third from left.
The back story is that the leaders of our group had earned their high altitude experience slogging up Denali. The gear list was extensive and we had too much food. I would guess our packs were over fifty pounds. Halfway up the hike to the next camp I found a 50 soles note (local currency) hanging in a bush and stashed it into my shirt pocket, not knowing it would pay my way back to town, later.
I found myself very fatigued and would fall into a nap at each break. That night at base camp (15,000') it was challenging to get out and walk on level ground. I assumed I would become acclimated soon, but I was wrong.
[I'm already sick, but I don't yet know it]
Somehow I hiked straight up the thousand foot lateral moraine the next day and crossed the glacier to reach moraine camp (16,000') for Pisco Oeste. I barely ate some soup and climbed into my sleeping bag, excited to climb for the summit in the morning. It never came to pass.
[route goes over the moraine, then up and left to snowline where I spent my last night]
I woke up around midnight and heard strange rumblings. I thought I must have heard the glacier, which constantly groans and rumbles. As I laid in my sleeping bag, next to my partner I realized those sounds were coming from inside my chest. For the next half an hour I worked through all the layers of disappointment and denial to acceptance that I was suffering from pulmonary edema. I reluctantly woke my partner who then went to the other tents and awoke the whole camp.
I felt like a trapped animal being up high and knew I had to get down immediately. I had actually read about a guy in his mid-thirties who had died on this mountain due to pulmonary edema. He had refused to go down. I wanted down, now! My team convinced me to wait a few hours for the dawn light. I felt okay, but my arm muscles cramped from simple tasks like compressing my down bag into a stuff sack.
Our team split, and my friend Phil Desjardins gave up his summit bid to escort me back to safety, while another friend carried my pack. I had balance enough to walk over ice covered rock, but felt like I was breathing through a soda straw and was reduced to one step per one breath on any slight incline. We briefly roped me up a class 3 section over the moraine and I made my descent to 15,000'. A group of laborers were bringing in supplies for a refugio. We collapsed onto the grass and watched the women cook potatoes in huge pots for the group. After speaking to the group I was able to hire a husky 14 year old with my 50 soles (~$20USD) to carry my pack down to the trailhead. I had no other money than the note I had found.
Once we reached the road, I was roasting in my expedition underwear and started to strip. Suddenly our porter came running back yelling, "Autobus! Autobus!" The only bus of the day was coming down the dozens of switchbacks high above. It was a miracle since we had no other way to transport me back to town. We hopped on passing candies around to the local Quechua natives who accepted us. They were dressed in traditional garb. One young woman resumed nursing her baby. The chickens settled down and off we went to Huaraz.
In town, the driver of the bus took us an additional half a mile to our hostel, since I could not carry my own pack and we had no more money. The kindness and good fortune that helped me that day seemed to be aligned. Once back at the climbing hostel, the head guide called a doctor who came with omnipresent black bag. He examined me and gave instructions in Spanish for me to cut back all salt, restrict water and rest for a week.
When one door closes, another opens. I missed my bid to climb Huascaran, but I had always thought it was a slog; a non-technical climb to a high altitude summit. I had lobbied our group to climb Alpamayo, an alpine spire of ice that was once voted the Most Beautiful Mountain in the World. My group left to climb Huascaran while I was recuperating, but failed to summit due to a large crevasse. I met friends and partnered with a guy from Ohio who had spent three seasons climbing in the Cordillera Blanca. He suggested we climb Alpamayo and I jumped for the opportunity. The two of us summitted via the Ferrari Route a week later without incident.
I ditched my SLR after the Pisco misadventure, and bought a Kodak p&s camera in town and shot ektachrome. This is my personal best altitude record at 19,511', just shy of 6,000 meters.
I went to Peru for three weeks in 1999 with a group of climbers. Our ultimate goal was Huascaran, the tallest mountain in Peru at 22,205', located in the Cordillera Blanca. After spending most of 24 hours flying to Lima (sea level), we immediately took private transportation to Huaraz (10,000'). Two days later we were at the trailhead at the approach for Pisco and spent the night at 12,000'. I took a good hike to photograph the quebrada llanganuco (valley) and probably gained another thousand feet. It was foolish to go up so fast.
The next morning our group of five shouldered enormous packs and started hiking. I'm third from left.
The back story is that the leaders of our group had earned their high altitude experience slogging up Denali. The gear list was extensive and we had too much food. I would guess our packs were over fifty pounds. Halfway up the hike to the next camp I found a 50 soles note (local currency) hanging in a bush and stashed it into my shirt pocket, not knowing it would pay my way back to town, later.
I found myself very fatigued and would fall into a nap at each break. That night at base camp (15,000') it was challenging to get out and walk on level ground. I assumed I would become acclimated soon, but I was wrong.
[I'm already sick, but I don't yet know it]
Somehow I hiked straight up the thousand foot lateral moraine the next day and crossed the glacier to reach moraine camp (16,000') for Pisco Oeste. I barely ate some soup and climbed into my sleeping bag, excited to climb for the summit in the morning. It never came to pass.
[route goes over the moraine, then up and left to snowline where I spent my last night]
I woke up around midnight and heard strange rumblings. I thought I must have heard the glacier, which constantly groans and rumbles. As I laid in my sleeping bag, next to my partner I realized those sounds were coming from inside my chest. For the next half an hour I worked through all the layers of disappointment and denial to acceptance that I was suffering from pulmonary edema. I reluctantly woke my partner who then went to the other tents and awoke the whole camp.
I felt like a trapped animal being up high and knew I had to get down immediately. I had actually read about a guy in his mid-thirties who had died on this mountain due to pulmonary edema. He had refused to go down. I wanted down, now! My team convinced me to wait a few hours for the dawn light. I felt okay, but my arm muscles cramped from simple tasks like compressing my down bag into a stuff sack.
Our team split, and my friend Phil Desjardins gave up his summit bid to escort me back to safety, while another friend carried my pack. I had balance enough to walk over ice covered rock, but felt like I was breathing through a soda straw and was reduced to one step per one breath on any slight incline. We briefly roped me up a class 3 section over the moraine and I made my descent to 15,000'. A group of laborers were bringing in supplies for a refugio. We collapsed onto the grass and watched the women cook potatoes in huge pots for the group. After speaking to the group I was able to hire a husky 14 year old with my 50 soles (~$20USD) to carry my pack down to the trailhead. I had no other money than the note I had found.
Once we reached the road, I was roasting in my expedition underwear and started to strip. Suddenly our porter came running back yelling, "Autobus! Autobus!" The only bus of the day was coming down the dozens of switchbacks high above. It was a miracle since we had no other way to transport me back to town. We hopped on passing candies around to the local Quechua natives who accepted us. They were dressed in traditional garb. One young woman resumed nursing her baby. The chickens settled down and off we went to Huaraz.
In town, the driver of the bus took us an additional half a mile to our hostel, since I could not carry my own pack and we had no more money. The kindness and good fortune that helped me that day seemed to be aligned. Once back at the climbing hostel, the head guide called a doctor who came with omnipresent black bag. He examined me and gave instructions in Spanish for me to cut back all salt, restrict water and rest for a week.
When one door closes, another opens. I missed my bid to climb Huascaran, but I had always thought it was a slog; a non-technical climb to a high altitude summit. I had lobbied our group to climb Alpamayo, an alpine spire of ice that was once voted the Most Beautiful Mountain in the World. My group left to climb Huascaran while I was recuperating, but failed to summit due to a large crevasse. I met friends and partnered with a guy from Ohio who had spent three seasons climbing in the Cordillera Blanca. He suggested we climb Alpamayo and I jumped for the opportunity. The two of us summitted via the Ferrari Route a week later without incident.
I ditched my SLR after the Pisco misadventure, and bought a Kodak p&s camera in town and shot ektachrome. This is my personal best altitude record at 19,511', just shy of 6,000 meters.
OP
OP
craig333
Riley's Human
Thanks for sharing your experience Andy.
Lighthawk, glad you made the wise move to come down and then recover enough to summit Alpamayo. Thanks for sharing your story.
Lighthawk
Weekend warrior
A bit long winded, but at least I recovered my wind!
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