Another custom design, also part 1 design

[MarkBC]

I've never been able to figure out why camp stove manufacturers say "don't use inside." Isn't a stove a stove?


There was a thread on this question last year...I know what I think (it's safe as long as you ventilate), but I don't think there was a consensus.

 

[ntsqd]

Consider putting a flood (or two) up high on the camper, and then driving them with a relay off of the truck's back-up lights - with a manual kill for those times they're not needed. I have a rear facing amber for desert racer chase work, but I have used it for many other needs including the buttmunch who refused to dim his highs while tailgating me for several miles in the slow lane..... but I digress. Having high mounted back-up lights works far better than low mounted lights and they also give you the ability to aim them such that you're less likely to blind someone trying to guide you.

Since the pain of adding the wiring is far greater than the pain of including the wiring I would give yourself the expansion option. If you don't use it then maybe the next guy will. Or maybe you'll re-purpose them for something unforeseen.

FFT anyway.

 

[pods8]

I cook on the drivers side (where the propane connection is) so having a light there makes a lot of sense for me. Passenger side will come in handy when I eventually get an awning. Plus you just never know how you'll wind up being situated. Nice to have options.


I figure if I'm in a situation that I want to be setup on the driver side on the truck I'd just turn the truck around 180deg so now the passenger side is over there.

 

[pods8]

Consider putting a flood (or two) up high on the camper, and then driving them with a relay off of the truck's back-up lights - with a manual kill for those times they're not needed. I have a rear facing amber for desert racer chase work, but I have used it for many other needs including the buttmunch who refused to dim his highs while tailgating me for several miles in the slow lane..... but I digress. Having high mounted back-up lights works far better than low mounted lights and they also give you the ability to aim them such that you're less likely to blind someone trying to guide you.

Since the pain of adding the wiring is far greater than the pain of including the wiring I would give yourself the expansion option. If you don't use it then maybe the next guy will. Or maybe you'll re-purpose them for something unforeseen.

FFT anyway.


I know that is some folks though on the backup lights, but a bright set down low seems like it'd cover 99% of situations to me (honestly I usually get around just fine with my stock lights as it is).

Its no small task the route extra wiring though the top core, through a flexible connection between the top and bottom shells, for something that might be nice.

 

[chnlisle]

Mark,
From everything I've read the issue isn't burning the propane but leaks. I guarantee if your portable stove has a leak you'll know it the moment you ignite the burner. The stove top and furnace have the propane out side but the products of cumbustion are no different from the portables or the built ins.

 

[MarkBC]

Mark,
From everything I've read the issue isn't burning the propane but leaks. I guarantee if your portable stove has a leak you'll know it the moment you ignite the burner. The stove top and furnace have the propane out side but the products of cumbustion are no different from the portables or the built ins.

Agreed...in fact, I'll know it long-before I ignite the burner -- propane is highly-odorized and my propane detector works well, too.

(I've tested it)

 

[pods8]

Windows, windows, everywhere? Thinking myself in circles here on windows folks and wouldn't mind some useful input. In my general thinking on one hand I feel like I want too many windows (for light/visibility) even if they are picture windows. However in reality I usually have most the curtains drawn up on my current camper for privacy. I don't want to waste the time/effort/money in putting in window locations that I'll never bother to use, however this is the best time to install a window rather than after the fact...

Right now I'm leaning towards a single stage pop-up with folding hardwalls on the cab over. I'm definitely planning to have a window on each side of the cab over, ideally slider windows for ventilation. I'll also have an opening cab through window.

Another consideration is how many of them really need to be opening windows? Initial impulse is for maximum ventilation but in reality I'm thinking between the roof vents (probably 2), cabover windows, cab through window, and perhaps one of the rear windows would be plenty (ie make the side windows pictures if they are there at all?).

Check out the picture below and lets comment on windows.

Windows of primary concern:
4) In conjunction with window 5 this would allow me to see out the back of the camper while driving, I'd need either a large window or a narrow one mounted low. Rather have this upper one opening or the lower one (don't really need both)?

5) I'd need a window here to see through the camper while driving as mentioned. The visibility zone is actually below the table mostly (which would be stowed while driving) so the main area I'd need window is in the 20"-30" above the camper floor range. Either a big picture window here or a slider I think. Not sure if the ventilation blowing half under the table is a negative. I suppose thinking about it more a big picture window here and a slider window above might be nice?

Secondary thought windows:
1) Might be nice but no major motivation, picture or slider would seem fine.

3&7) There will likely only be about 7" of visible window space with the seat backs up if there were windows here. However these windows would make it easy to have curtains fixed in place as opposed to the ones above. I feel like sliders would be bad here (not usable while in dinette and safety concerns in bed mode). A narrow picture window in the upper portion 12" above the bed height might be decent and that would maximize how much light comes through when the seat backs are up. These windows would be shielded while driving.

2&6) I'd either do 2&6 or 3&7 (or none), not both. These windows have more exposed space for light/ventilation options. However curtain options are reduced, however the windows are higher up so less privacy concerns anyways. Sliders offer more ventilation if needed but I don't know if I'd use them.

Thumbs up or down on side windows by the dinette?

 

[home skillet]

That looks like a lot of windows. Should be nice and bright in there.
Question: How are you planning to work the pop-up seal around the 4 windows that are under the slide section of the bottom portion? I know with my windows they would require a 1/4" of clearance on the outside.

Home Skillet

 

[Jamesiam]

I love windows so this is tough. It doesn’t seem that window (4) would help much with driving visibility; wouldn't it be above the actual height of cab? But if you were backed up on a ridge overlooking the bay, it might be nice to have both back windows for a view from bed.

Also if you did drop window (4) I think you should keep windows (2,6) for above light. You mentioned either (2,6)OR (3,7). I'm not sure how much light you would get with a 7 inch window (3,7) especially if people were sitting in seats, plus with (2,6) less privacy concerns like you mentioned.

I like windows (3,7) for the fact if you are sitting and hear a suspicious noise,(not that I'm paranoid or anything)you wouldn’t have to stand up to peak out of the sides, you might miss bigfoot walking by, although you can get most of the front and sides view by glancing through cab through window.


Maybe you need ANOTHER window above the bed for stargazing!

 

[pods8]

That looks like a lot of windows. Should be nice and bright in there.
Question: How are you planning to work the pop-up seal around the 4 windows that are under the slide section of the bottom portion? I know with my windows they would require a 1/4" of clearance on the outside.

Home Skillet


Keep in mind I'm not doing all those windows I'm just showing possible locations.

I'm under the impression the outer portion of the window flange protrudes ~1/8" from the camper face. I plan to have 3/8-1/2" of clearance between the two camper portions so it should clear fine. I was more concerned about how much the latches and such on a slider window protrude out the back. As for the seals whether I'm using a rubber foam lip or a brush seal both should slide over the window surface.

I love windows so this is tough. It doesn’t seem that window (4) would help much with driving visibility; wouldn't it be above the actual height of cab? But if you were backed up on a ridge overlooking the bay, it might be nice to have both back windows for a view from bed.

Also if you did drop window (4) I think you should keep windows (2,6) for above light. You mentioned either (2,6)OR (3,7). I'm not sure how much light you would get with a 7 inch window (3,7) especially if people were sitting in seats, plus with (2,6) less privacy concerns like you mentioned.

I like windows (3,7) for the fact if you are sitting and hear a suspicious noise,(not that I'm paranoid or anything)you wouldn’t have to stand up to peak out of the sides, you might miss bigfoot walking by, although you can get most of the front and sides view by glancing through cab through window.


Maybe you need ANOTHER window above the bed for stargazing!


Based on where I think the bed height will be and based on what I consider the usable viewing window for actually seeing behind the camper when looking out my current FWC I believe that 20-28" above the camper base is where I need to see through. The sketch above is with the camper extended, when the top is down the edge of the upper part will cover most of that viewing window. So I'd need that number 4 window to see through (and I'll need to extend how far the top overlaps in the back to get the window down low enough).

Windows 3&7 would have been bigger that 7" I was just saying you'd only be able to see out the top 7" since the seat backs would be in the way. Right now I'm leaning towards a bigger picture window in 5 (46"x22") which would make that wall area fairly open for looking out while sitting, then matching sliders in 4 and 2&6 perhaps sized ~30"x15".

No temptation please. I did think about installing one of these over the bed, but decided I was getting carried away. I'll already have a fantastic fan near the bed:

 

[home skillet]

Keep in mind I'm not doing all those windows I'm just showing possible locations.

I'm under the impression the outer portion of the window flange protrudes ~1/8" from the camper face. I plan to have 3/8-1/2" of clearance between the two camper portions so it should clear fine. I was more concerned about how much the latches and such on a slider window protrude out the back. As for the seals whether I'm using a rubber foam lip or a brush seal both should slide over the window surface.



Perfect! That should be just fine. Now that I am looking at my windows and clearance, I prabably could have made the overlap gap 1/4"-3/8" smaller. Remember to calculate in any thickness for sealer around the exterior of the window. May not change anything, but it depends on the type of weather strip you use (some are pretty thick).

As far as latches and such, there are some fairly 'sharp' edeges on the outside of some of the slider windows. These might hang up a foam seal, but probably not a brush seal. One has to wonder if there would be some streaking or scratching of the window or trim or both though.

All that said, I think the extra light and visibility will be well worth the effort, my project is likely going to be a little dark inside.

Home Skillet

 

[pods8]

As far as latches and such, there are some fairly 'sharp' edeges on the outside of some of the slider windows. These might hang up a foam seal, but probably not a brush seal. One has to wonder if there would be some streaking or scratching of the window or trim or both though.


One of the reasons (along with cost) to stick with glass over acrylic.

 

[pods8]

Okay more design thoughts now that I need to start turning my attention to building the lower wall cores. Two issues to iron out, the water fill and external hatches.

Water fill: To do an external gravity drain that doesn't require lifting the top up I'd need to do it in the front wall in the little bit of space not blocked by the cab. This doesn't seem ideal. I'm not really interested in having to lift the roof to access a gravity hatch either. I could use a "city water hookup" to fill the tank but if I'm not around pressurized water that is no good. So I'm sorta thinking an access hatch lower down (or just inside the door way) with a small pump & tubing might be the way to go. I'd just open up this hatch, drop the tubing into my water container and pump it into the water tank (perk would be being able to leave the tank on the ground). There might be the possibility of valving out the normal pump for double duty depending on how I finally lay things out but either way a second pump isn't a high dollar item. For a backup I might include a capped gravity fill tube inside the camper.

External hatches: This is in regards to the areas under the dinette seats. How much value do people see in being able to get into one (or both) of those areas from the exterior of the camper verse just lifting the seats up inside? I see some value if someone (or gear) is on the seats in not having to have them move. But I don't know if its worth bothering with a hatch. Hatch adds build complexity and is just another thermal and moisture infiltration point that would need to be sealed off.

Thoughts from field experience?

 

[Alley-Kat]

Okay more design thoughts now that I need to start turning my attention to building the lower wall cores. Two issues to iron out, the water fill and external hatches.

External hatches: This is in regards to the areas under the dinette seats. How much value do people see in being able to get into one (or both) of those areas from the exterior of the camper verse just lifting the seats up inside? I see some value if someone (or gear) is on the seats in not having to have them move. But I don't know if its worth bothering with a hatch. Hatch adds build complexity and is just another thermal and moisture infiltration point that would need to be sealed off.

Thoughts from field experience?




I have been in the past "a boat guy"... the fewer thru hull fittings the better.

 

[home skillet]

Okay more design thoughts now that I need to start turning my attention to building the lower wall cores. Two issues to iron out, the water fill and external hatches.


Thoughts from field experience?



I am of the opinion that external hatches are one more place for air and water leaks. You likely will not be able to insulate the hatch well and up here in the Northwest cold just seems to seep in. The fewer the better. Honestly, how hard is it to walk in and get what you want. I know that this is a popular mod with all of the new overland rigs, but most of those are in warm/dry climates and not usually on campers (more like trailers and RV's).

With regard to the water fill, I actually measured the drop distance on my old camper before selling it. We never had trouble filling it with gravity feed. It was around 18 inches. You should have at least 18 inches of fall even with the shorter lower wall....right?
My plan is to place a standard gravity feed line near the cab through the lower section (but pretty close to the pop-up section of the lower wall).

I will let you know when I get this done.

Home Skillet

 

[pods8]

Yeah I'm not a big proponent of more hatches but wanted to make sure I wasn't selling myself short. At this point I think I'm going to put in the provisions to cut one into the rear wall into one of the under seat storage areas at a later date if I want it.

As for the gravity fill I was thinking of using an 18" tall tank, so the gravity line would need to slope up from there (but not by much) so lets say thats ~20" at the camper wall. Well that hatch is like 5"x6" or something like that and assuming the port is relatively centered in it the top of the hatch frame will be in the 23" range. My overlapping walls will likely be coming down to the 20" range so I run into an issue. The front wall is still a possibility though. However it just dawned on me that the first ~8" or so of roof lift I still won't have exposed the camper cab over interior so I could lift the roof a bit if needed I suppose.

 

[pods8]

Okay decided to do some reshuffling in utility layout. Would love any input anyone out there has asap as I'll be likely framing in cutouts for this stuff this coming weekend.

In the sketch below the yellow represents the overall cabinet outlines. Red is the visible outlines of the utility blocks w/o regard to the cabinet lines overlaid. Blue is the hidden lines in the sketch, hopefully that helps visually make things stand out in the iso sketch?

I've scaled back to a single 20lb propane tank in the camper and figure I'll carry a spare if needed elsewhere. On the driver side will be the fridge, battery/electronics compartment, and also a compartment that could either fit a 7gal water cube/a portable toilet/or misc storage. Main water tank is along the front, partially offset to the driver side. There will be a 4-6" gap between the driverside wall and that tank which will house the pump, drain/fill lines, etc. I plan to add a small utility access hatch (I've seen stuff in the 4"-6" range) so the pump can be serviced if needed. Moving back along the drivers wall will be a 17"x14" hatch into the propane compartment, behind the propane compartment will be the heater with it's vent. In front of the propane compartment will be the grey water jug which can be removed out the front of the cabinet to dump.

 

[pods8]

Need some thoughts here on how to open the outer door when the top is down and thus the inner door is blocking it.

I was thinking of using basic trimark RV handles like this:

My door thickness is 2", since the above handles are for 1.25-1.5" doors that helps me out so I can recess the inner handle mount .5-.75" into the door. I was thinking about putting cable controls into the door core and routing the actuation part near the top of the door (which would be above the inner/lower door). The lock latch is just back and forth which would be fairly easy, the latch release would likely need to have the cable control drilled into the housing to actually pull the latch release. Thoughts or better ideas?

 

[Addie]

Need some thoughts here on how to open the outer door when the top is down and thus the inner door is blocking it.

I was thinking of using basic trimark RV handles like this:

My door thickness is 2", since the above handles are for 1.25-1.5" doors that helps me out so I can recess the inner handle mount .5-.75" into the door. I was thinking about putting cable controls into the door core and routing the actuation part near the top of the door (which would be above the inner/lower door). The lock latch is just back and forth which would be fairly easy, the latch release would likely need to have the cable control drilled into the housing to actually pull the latch release. Thoughts or better ideas?

Have you looked at the door system on the hi-lo's? that seems to be what you are trying to do.. partsfrom hi-lo trailer

 

[pods8]

Have you looked at the door system on the hi-lo's? that seems to be what you are trying to do.. partsfrom hi-lo trailer


I don't see any provision to open if from the inside when it's down, that is the part I'm trying to do. Just having over lapping doors isn't the issue.