Any experience with vinyl welders? Need to replace vinyl...

[Kolockum]

Long story short. The vinyl on my 2000 eagle is completely shot and I got a quote from ATC earlier this year for $650 for the new liner. So I saved up some money and gave ATC a call today. The price for a new liner has gone up from ~$650 to $1050! And that is with out installation. Still in a slight state of shock I called FWC and they told me they only install liners and they won't sell one by itself...

Now I am back to the drawing board as both options are well outside of my price range. I priced out the vinyl, clear vinyl, and Velcro to about $250 and a handheld vinyl heat welder to around $150. So for $400 and a lot of time I think I can make my own.

My question: Does anybody have any experience with vinyl welders?

I am only interested in welding it and I really don't want to use glue or sew it.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Do you have a boat canvas shop in the area? They might have some advice/expertise from their work on boat camper backs.

 

[DavidGraves]

Howdy

Tough news about your situation.....FWC and ATC prices are out of reach for many folks...probably many reasons for that, they are not producing in high volume.

I would readily second the notice to contact a marine canvas shop and have them inspect your remaining tent surround and quote making one in Sunbrella fabric.

I had a tent enclosure sewn in Sunbrella for our small camper sailboat and it was wonderful.....very waterproof, durable over ten or more years use and perhaps a lot lighter than the vinyl material originally used on the FWC.

I will not be "cheap" ( and you need the best sewing you can find), but it will beat experimenting with vinyl welding skills, etc etc.

Sunbrella comes in a wonderful wide range of colors also....a long proven product in the marine world.

Hope this provides an option for you.

DavidGraves

North Oregon coast

PS A young man near Anacortes, WA actually had this done for his older camper that he is trying to sell on Seatlle C/L.
He may be able to steer you toward the canvas shop that did his work.

 

[OSUFlyer]

I assume based on your user name you are from the Ellensburg area?

I know a gentlemen in Bingen/White Salmon that does great work. He does it part time but have heard great things. I am going to have him replace my vinyl. I ordered all materials and he will only charge for his time. PM if interested.

 

[MDM54]

I have used a hot air welder to fabricate several air supported structures (bubbles) for swimming pools. The biggest problem with these welders is that the vinyl needs to be heated to just shy of burning and not a degree higher or a degree lower. Lots of opportunities to breath in poly vinyl chloride. Lots of opportunities to have an almost perfect seam and then burn a hole through it. Lots of opportunities to weld a seam that looks great only to have it fail because the welding temp was too low.
Using a long enough piece of fabric, the camper side curtain can be fabricated with just one seam at the center back or anywhere actually. The factory side curtain, on my Eagle has 4 stitched vertical seams and 4 windows set into the fabric panel and stitched. Three of those vertical seams can be eliminated. Plus all 4 of those seams are near the folding corners making those areas slightly stiffer and bulkier and more resistant to folding. Although my side curtain folds just fine with a little tucking at closing time.
The factory side curtain is stitched, the seams are only about 24" long. A do it yourself side curtain could easily be fabricated with a needle and stitching awl, vinyl cement, VHB tape or hot air welding. Of the four methods, hot air would be my last choice.
Sunbrella is a great durable fabric and also very super flammable and once it gets going it produces toxic smoke, drips molten acrylic and does not stop until consumed. Sunbrella (Glen Raven Mills) is no longer made in a FR version. There are several other flame retardant solution dyed woven acrylic fabrics produced off shore but are harder to track down.
Most awning shops (as opposed to marine canvas shops) fabricate with a radio frequency bar welder and would be able to seam your side curtain in about a minute.
If you think that you can not hand stitch the side curtain, remember that after securing food and nutrition, sewing (clothing and shelter) is the second most basic of all human endeavors.

 

[Squatch]

My understanding is the material FWC uses now is the same fabric inflatable boats are made of. If you just have some small areas to repair perhaps you could use the material from a rafters style dry bag and hand sew it. or find someone on a fishing site who has messed up their inflatable cataraft. Maybe you could buy something like that for fabric. Color match is great when you can but when on a tight budget a solid weather tight seal is more important. Just throwing out some scavenger ideas. I would sew and seam seal it before I tried plastic welding. If you just have some mouse holes ect maybe try a raft repair kit.

 

[kmcintyre]

Also, I would suggest that if you are going to pull the roof/top off that you a) check the insulation and replace it b) check the headliner and replace c) check the front and back push up (forgot the term) boards. I know it costs more but trust me, it's sooooo much easier to do it when the roof is off. You can tuck the headliner up the sides, etc. I did mine while it was still on then had ATC do the vinyl later. I wish I could have convinced them to let me do it while the roof was off (or have them do it).

Kevin

 

[Kolockum]

Also, I would suggest that if you are going to pull the roof/top off that you a) check the insulation and replace it check the headliner and replace c) check the front and back push up (forgot the term) boards. I know it costs more but trust me, it's sooooo much easier to do it when the roof is off. You can tuck the headliner up the sides, etc. I did mine while it was still on then had ATC do the vinyl later. I wish I could have convinced them to let me do it while the roof was off (or have them do it).

Kevin

I am planning on doing the full "restore". I replaced the insulation with ridged foam a while back after the headliner fell apart. And my lift gates aren't really lifting anything either.


I will give sewing another look. I just live in one of the wettest parts of Washington and have had a lot of problems with water leaking through seams even with seam sealer. Thanks for all the input

 

[BillM]

Kolo,

I've no experience heat welding vinyl but have used a cement called HH-66 a lot. I made a tent for a popup camper from glued vinyl in 1998 and it is still in great shape in my backyard. As with any glue bond you need to clean and roughen the material but it's easy to do, very durable and watertight. I found the glue at a local fabric store in Reno but it's also available on line: https://www.hotelrestaurantsupply.com/ALL-85-1143.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=products&gclid=CK3d4JiE7M0CFdgGgQodnqoAYg

 

[MDM54]

I second the HH-66 for assembling new vinyl. I have used it to make a top for a Jeep and it lasted for years. The smaller can has an integral brush in the lid that is really handy and does not need to be cleaned after use as it is immersed in the glue. Plus it can be used to adhere your own seam tape over stitched seams. Stitching would probably be faster than gluing, with less prep and more forgiving pre-assembly.
When using any of the vinyl glues (VLP, HH-66 etc} have never had to rough up the fabric as the "cement" takes the vinyl into solution when joining the patch to the base fabric. However, I would "rough up" the joining surfaces when using a contact type adhesive.

To circle back to the hot air welder, I would look for one with a digital temperature control so that you can dial in and repeat the exact temperature needed once it is determined.

 

[BillM]

MDM54,

I agree that roughing up the surfaces may not be needed for all bonds. The material I used for my camper tent seemed to have a shiny glaze on it that made me a little concerned. Since the tent bonds were mission critical I lightly sanded and then cleaned and glued. They have held up beautifully for years. On the other hand I have repaired dry bags for whitewater river trips using HH-66 and not sanded and they have held up well too. In any case it is a viable method for vinyl bonding without having to sew the material which is difficult without an industrial machine.