Anyone familiar with Hallmarks optimized for off-road, off-the-grid use?

[DoGMAtix]

We're looking for a camper for our 3/4 ton short bed truck, to maximize off road capability but also to fit 2 adults and 2 kids in comfortably for long camping trips in remote areas. Ideally we want the following features:
- Dinette that'll seat 4 fairly comfortably;
- Adequate sleeping space for 4;
- Water tank that holds at least 20 gallons, and a decent-sized, functional sink/faucet;
- Fridge;
- Stove top;
- Heater;
- 2 vents with at least 1 fan;
- Heated shower (would prefer an outdoor unit to save space and we don't mind showering outside);
- Solar to power the fridge (we'd prefer a large compressor fridge, or at least the option of putting one in eventually), plus lights and plugs (for laptops, camera batteries, etc).

We initially gravitated toward a FWC Grandby with front dinette (and would still love to own one), but they've only been making them for a few years and they're out of our price range new and pretty much impossible to find used. ATC is a bit cheaper and although they are known for customizing, they don't offer a dinette that will work for us or a heated outdoor shower. They're a bit cheaper than FWC but still too expensive for us new and hard to come by used.

Then I started reading threads in this forum, talking to various people and looking compulsively at used camper ads, and it seems like a used 8-foot Hallmark may be just the thing for us. They typically have all the features listed above, but the problem is that they tend to be overequipped for our purposes. Eg, we don't need an oven, bathroom or air conditioner, and would prefer lighter weight and more storage space.

So my question (arrived at a very long way round) is this: Are there folks out there who've got Hallmarks set up the way we're looking to find one, fairly stripped down and purposed for off road/ off the grid performance? If so, how many? Should we be holding out for one, or should we grab one of the used rollover couch Grandbys (not ideal for us, but workable) that should start popping up more frequently on Craigslist within the next couple of months?
I'd appreciate any experience or insights people may have to offer.
Thanks.
- Dave

 

[Bad Habit]

I know there are, as you pretty much described mine. I would think they don't come on the used market that way very often, and if one of the newer composite sided, one piece roof designs, it probably would be as much or more than a new FWC or ATC. I think you're right though, as they tend to be considered a higher end TC, people tend to add all of the amenities (and then regret it).

We have a '15 K2 (just picked up in Feb). I think the dinette could seat 4, it would be tight. Sleeping 4 would really depend on the age of the kids. And at the rate kids grow, wouldn't be too long before it would be a little cozy for all involved. Not sure any of the other makes would fare much better, short of doing a completely empty shell and fabricating something your self.

 

[DoGMAtix]

Thanks, Bad. Nice to hear from someone who's living our dream.
I spoke with Matt at the factory, and he said they offer a few options for expanding sleeping arrangements "downstairs." They'll extend the width of the dinette bed, or add a hammock above the dinette so one of our kids can sleep above the other. I saw one Hallmark on craigslist that had an actual removable bunk bed installed above the dinette.
I also spoke with Matt about the roof issue - before 08 they only offered rubber or metal roofs, which they don't like to attach solar (or I believe roof racks) to. You can get a one piece fiberglass roof replacement installed by Hallmark for about $1000, so an older camper could still end up serving our purposes with a relatively cost-effective modification (I think Matt said they could wire for solar easily and glue rails for mounting solar panels while they're at it).
Anyone else have some experience or insight into this?

 

[ACEBLACKDOG]

ck out the northstar tc's....

 

[snuffy]

2nd that, check out the tc800 with the dinette pop out .. they make a great camper and are first rate on customer service..

 

[DoGMAtix]

The tc800 does look pretty luxurious, particularly with the popout. Dinette looks more spacious than other brands, and everything (fridge, sink, etc) seems designed to bring the camping experience as close to suburban living as possible. I can't see that as a bad thing, especially with kids, except I'd imagine they lumber around a little more than Hallmarks and a lot more than FWCs and ATCs. How do they do on steep/ bumpy/ high clearance roads? I'm talking washed out roads in canyon country and jeep passes in the Colorado Rockies... Can these be fully powered with solar and standard-sized propane tanks? A good percentage of our trips will involve spending a few days at a time away from shore power, no generator, and not even much driving from campsite to campsite.

 

[snuffy]

i see that you have a shortbed truck , you can go with a tc 650 with the same option . the northstar will go anywhere any popcamper will go it is made to use off road i never had any problems with mine and i been in some rough spots. you need to look at all of them and see what one fits your needs best they also have solar power options good luck!

 

[DoGMAtix]

I did some more online searching and then spoke with Bill, the western sales manager for Northstar, and it definitely seems like they're worth considering. Tried and true for off-road use, not too heavy for our Dodge ram 2500 CTD with air bags. I think the TC800 makes more sense for us than the TC650 because storage/organization is a major priority. Northstars seem to be cheaper for what you get than Hallmarks or FWCs, but it seems like they're very well made with attention to detail and materials. And when it comes to buying used, it helps that even their base models tend to come more or less equipped for our needs, particularly if we start with a 3-way fridge (at least the one they include in their basic setup is large enough for our family) and leave solar for a DIY project (after all, it would take half the fun out of buying a used camper if there was nothing of consequence left to be done... ). The only major drawback is that the dinette bed is only 36 inches wide (vs 44" in the front dinette Grandby and 39" in the Hallmarks, but better than the rollover couch Grandby at 35"), so the kids'll be fighting for space on it at some point, but we should have plenty of time to figure out a fix for that by the time it's an issue.

Anybody else out there with real-life experience using a Northstar for off the grid travel? I'm particularly interested in the solar/electrical issue. Bill says that by upgrading batteries you can easily power the thing for days without solar. What have people experienced in that regard? The roof is apparently not OK to drill through except along the edges, so they only recommend glue-down panels, which I was hoping to avoid.
Advice on any of the campers we're considering would be appreciated. The new short list includes any 8' Hallmark, the Northstar TC800, and FWC Grandby (although it seems like all we're likely to come up with in our price range in a Grandby is a rollover couch model, which is not an ideal configuration for us). We're hoping to end up under $15K including all modifications. I've started answering used camper ads and may have to make a quick decision soon!

 

[Bigfoot]

We're looking for a camper for our 3/4 ton short bed truck, to maximize off road capability but also to fit 2 adults and 2 kids in comfortably for long camping trips in remote areas...

You know what you want which is a good start. As a Hallmark owner I'll add a few thoughts to the mix. Most "off-road" or rough-duty campers feature rugged construction, an isolated mounting system, marine-grade accessories, secure storage, self-contained power and water, and a pop-up top. All of that costs extra and can be hard to find used because typical buyers don't want to spend that much. For the skilled DIY type, a good shell rebuilt to personal specs might be the way to go. Another approach favored by many is to go simple and use their campers more like fancy tents. Tradeoffs any way you lean.

Current Hallmark models have a body and top made--I was told by Hallmark--by the same company that makes them for EarthRoamer. You can walk on the top, glue solar panels to it, and abuse it. That's among the best foundations available and is filled with a good-quality interior in a wide selection of materials (including waterproof composites) and options. I don't think any owners here have questioned the build quality; rather, attention to some details and customer service have been issues. I'm not sure how recent they went to that construction but I bet decent used ones will be out of your price range. Hallmark is factory direct with no dealers, so repairs can be a hassle.

I'm unfamiliar with Northstar products. They sound like well-made campers at their price-point, but I don't see anything special that makes them good for off-road use. They may be okay for light exploring which is what most people do. They have some slide-out options that might help with your space needs. If you have a good, local Northstar dealer that might be a plus. For rough roads I highly recommend paying attention to the mounting system (I like Torklift), truck bed pad, cabinet organization, secure door fasteners, as much solar as you can afford, and a compressor refrigerator. For a family of 4 a 30-gallon fresh water tank is not too much.

Whatever you get, have fun!

 

[snuffy]

one way to tell the quality of a truck camper is to look at a unit that is 10-15yrs. old. even if you may not be in the market for one that old you can see how well it has held up you see Northstar, FWC, ATC, Hallmark, Alaskan campers still in use they dont fall apart..

 

[Happyjax]

As a prospective 1st time buyer I like that we are exploring several of the companies on this thread. I am not sure what I want yet so this is good for me also

 

[longhorn1]

HappyJax & DogMAtix, I spent 2 years researching, first Outfitter, then Hallmark. I really liked the Hallmark, but the Ute priced out at close to $45K. My search came to a halt. I liked the Alaskan but that priced out around $35K and now they are offering solar and roof mounted AC. Traveling to Washington was out. Someone on this site suggested FWC and someone else mentioned ATC. We traveled to Wisconsin to the dealer and we're immediately sold on FWC and shortly thereafter placed our order for a 2014 Grandby($25K) Don't think you can go wrong with any of these. JD



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[DoGMAtix]

Thanks for the info. Bigfoot, I followed your thread about your new Hallmark, and although it sounds like the buying experience could have been better, we're leaning a bit more toward a used Hallmark than the other brands at this point (though what we buy will be largely determined by what comes up for sale within range). Hallmark's wider side dinette (39 inches) with plenty of windows and larger appliances are big selling points for us. I think we can find one that will fit our needs for under $15K, although if one comes up that's in good shape and set up just how we want it for a bit more we don't have a strict limit. We could also buy an older Hallmark used for a lot less, and then replace the roof and add solar.
Longhorn, If we were to buy new we would definitely go with Four Wheel Camper, and we've actually been discussing slightly discounted front dinette Grandby demo models with a few dealers, but haven't found anything just right for us, and of course that would put us way over $15K (closer to $25K).
NorthStars are not out of the running, but they have much less robust roofs, with a thin aluminum skin over an essentially non-weight bearing structure (anything mounted to the roof has to be attached to the wooden frame at the edges, and rooftop cargo weight is pretty limited). They also only come with one vent and it's a bit of a chore to DIY another one (they don't really recommend it). Could get by with a rack which we'd mount solar panels to (and nothing much else). There are definitely some good deals out there on used NorthStars, so although they're last on our short list, we may end up with one when all's said and done.
By the way, we'd consider ATC, but they really never come up used in a configuration that works for us, so we haven't been thinking much about them any more.

 

[driller]

Dog, I run a Northstar TC850SC on a 2000 dodge 2500 shortbed. Love the setup. I travel quite a bit off road and have not had a single issue with the camper construction. The TC800 with the flip out side wall would pretty much hit your wish list. I run solar on mine but instead of roof mount I run on a 30' cord and just plug it in when I need it.

 

[DoGMAtix]

Thanks for posting the photo of your short bed dodge, Driller. It's nice to see that even an 8.5 foot camper looks at home on back. We're still considering NorthStars, but the narrow dinette bed is the biggest limiting factor for us, and the side popout has the disadvantage of losing the nice window beside the dinette.

We did learn that rollover couch Grandbys made over the past 10 years or so have a strip alongside the couch that's flush with the seat cushion along the passenger side wall, effectively expanding the lower level bed width from 35 inches to somewhere between 43 and 45 (nobody has given us an actual measure yet - it's frustrating how hard it is to get people to fold a bed out and run a tape measure across it, even when they're trying to sell a camper!).

So our current short list, in order of preference, now looks like this:
1) Front dinette Grandby;
2) Newer used Hallmark (2008 or later has the improved construction Bigfoot mentioned);
3) Newer rollover couch Grandby (< 10 y/o?);
4) Northstar is still in the running, but probably only if we were to find one modified to better fit our needs/preferences at this point.

Obviously, price is going to be in issue here, as the range encompassed by our list is going to be pretty wide. The longer we look unsuccessfully, the more likely we are to be willing to spend more to get just what we want.

Again, thanks for the replies. We appreciate all the perspective we can get from folks with first hand experience with the campers we're considering!

 

[DoGMAtix]

We just arranged to buy a 2008 Hallmark Guanella! Heading up to Denver around September 1 to meet the seller at Hallmark for a factory install. Looks to be in great shape, really nothing needed beyond the install to start camping. No solar panels yet, but there's a rack to mount them to, and the newer Hallmarks (with one-piece carbon fiber roofs) lend themselves well to DIY installation, with the added benefit that you can use whatever gauge wire you want. With a 3-way fridge and two new deep cycle batteries, though, we shouldn't be that electricity-limited. We'll post a photo or two from our first road trip (onward from Denver in the beginning of September).
Thanks to all who helped with valuable information in these forums!
- Dave

 

[Mike&Becky]

Sounds good, looking forward to your pics.

 

[Bad Habit]

So...did you seal the deal? Pictures?

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[DoGMAtix]

Deal sealed. Will post details soon. Bottom line is that we've got a great camper (since we spent the day after we bought it tearing into the floor and fixing the plumbing), but have to figure out how to mount it better to our truck than they did at Hallmark. Nearly lost it a couple of times on a relatively tame jeep road. Turnbuckles and chains were inadequate, and the camper had been built to fit a Ford F250 and should have been modified to fit our Dodge Ram 2500 better.
Here are a few photos of our trip home (from Denver to Albuquerque). I'll post some detail pics of our mounting soon to see what folks recommend we do to make it work better.

 

[DoGMAtix]

Another photo (reached my max KB on that last post):