Anyone tried Timbrens?

[esimmers]

Anyone have Timbren suspension experience to share with the rest of us?

When I put my loaded Hawk and all our stuff (at least 1500 pounds) on our 2011 F-250 2WD, the rear of the truck sags about 3". I'd like to raise the loaded truck by a couple of inches in the rear when under load.

Timbrens <www.timbren.com> are basically bigger rubber springs that replace the truck's rear suspension bump stops. They help hold the back end from sagging so much although they don't increase the weight rating of the truck.

There are two Timbren models that fit my F-250, the FR250SDG and the heavier FRTT350F. Timbren's web site and their customer service person says the FRTT350F is for trucks with a slide-in camper, including a pop-up camper.

So, has anyone used either one of these Timbren models or any other Timbren product?

 

[busboy66]

Ya I tried them.

Pros:
Simple to install
Won't fail like an airbag could
Doesn't affect ride when empty
Don't need air or maintenance

Cons:
Bouncy - not in a good way

 

[N'kwala]

Yes, I'm using them on a Ford Ranger with an older Ranger II camper. They seem fine, although I gottoo say I've not done a lot of backroad stuff lately. I hadn't noticed the bouncy problem.

 

[Squatch]

I just aqquired a set for my "Moon Truck" project. I haven't used them yet. mine are only about 3/4" taller than the Bumpstops. I think they will handle the load but because of the height you gotta be almost on the stops before they take effect.

I think it would be easy to make a a spacer to get them closer to the axle so they would come into play sooner if needed.

In my case I'll be using a 2" lift extra HD OME leaf pack. So for me they will just be HD bumpstops. Those need replacing anyway so I just went with the Timbrens. I got a deal on a slightly used set. I'll try to post a pic soon.

Local fellow down the road uses them on the front of all his snow plow trucks and swears by them.

 

[mitch h]

I have them on our 2015 half ton chevy. Works fine with Oclet on .Unloaded fine unless you hit a good dip in the road, then you get a pretty solid hit. Took them off just the other day. Will put them back on when we load up camper next summer. Pretty easy install. If camper was on full time, I would not remove them. Good product. Mitch

 

[rustytinbender]

I put a them on my 2011 Chevy silverado half ton with a fwc hawk camper. I think they work well, when my camper is off they have no impact but when the camper is on and loaded it rests on the timbrens and it helps - easy!

 

[Squatch]

The Timbrens for my Isuzu vs the stock rear bumpstops.


3/4" taller than stock.

 

[JHanson]

Esimmers,

Timbrens will do nothing to correct the sag you are experiencing. You need either higher-rated springs to level the truck with the camper installed, or air bags. Each approach has its advantages; air bags are the only way to go if you remove the camper between trips.

 

[Foy]

I don't recall if the bump stop extenders I installed are Timbrens or not but I think they are. My stock '02 F350 Crew Cab long bed single rear wheel diesel still has the OEM rear springs and the OEM single short leaf overload springs. The main rear leaf pack had sagged to a degree and I was not satisfied with the rear sag when the heavy fiberglass shell covering the bed and a load of tools and gear. When I added the camper trailer (tongue weight around 350 lbs), the overloads were nearly down to the OEM bump stops. I found and installed the thicker bump stops. Now the loaded truck bed + camper have the overloads in contact with the bump stops all the time. The result is zero suspension travel before the overloads kick in. The ride is much harsher and less comfortable. I probably do need new shocks since my present rears are 6 years old and have 75,000 miles on them. But I doubt new shocks will relieve the stiffness much, if at all. Given their age and miles (OEM on an '02 truck with 260,000 miles), I am pondering just getting new rear leaf springs and installing air bags. Probably need to re-do the front leafs, too, even though they're only 6 years old (installed a leveling kit when the shocks were installed). Problem with them is they've flattened out more than I'd like and the ride has gotten poor.

I can't figure how increasing the reliance on bumpstops engaging overload springs can result in anything other than sharply stiffening the ride.

Foy

 

[JHanson]

Foy is completely correct. Bump stops are designed to serve one purpose: to prevent the springs slamming into the frame or inverting during a sudden drastic overload, such as running into a speed bump at full speed. Under normal conditions the springs should never touch the bump stops.

Most factory 'overload' springs only engage after the suspension has already sagged due to load. They then help prevent the springs from hitting the bump stops.

To properly support the weight of a camper the truck needs either springs rated to carry the extra weight, or air bags that augment the stock springs. In both cases one will usually need shocks with stiffer valving to counter the increased roll and cycling rate. A one-ton truck might have the capacity to carry a FWC with no modifications, but most trucks will need help to handle comfortably and safely.

 

[Foy]

For clarity, my bump stop contact is not the main leaf bump stops but instead is limited to bump stops at each end of the short single leaf overload spring. In essence, I have engaged the overload leaf all the time by limiting the amount of rear suspension travel before they're engaged.

What I failed to mention is the effect on handling. Not that an 8,000 lb truck is ever going to handle like a Porsche, but having the rear suspension SO greatly stiffened and with so little travel creates an odd feel up front--the rear wants to act as though there is no suspension at all, and when driving over uneven or even slightly bumpy surfaces, the steering gets a bit weird.

Foy

 

[busboy66]

FYI - I have also used SuperSprings. They work well, but mine had a tendency to squeek. They are also adjustable via the shackle.

I talked to the local spring shop that used to sell SuperSprings, but stopped after they found that some installations would irreparably damage the main leaf. If the roller rides on the second leaf it's ok, but not ok on the main one.

I have since gone with an add-a-leaf which added 500lb spring capacity and am happy so far.

For what it is worth, I will throw out the warning that has been posted in other threads:

Timbrens, airbags, SuperSprings, Hellwigs etc. do not increase the maximum payload capacity of the vehicle. They only aid in leveling the load and perhaps make it more stable.

 

[busboy66]

As Foy stated, I also found that the different spring rate of the Timbrens in the back and the stock front suspension to be troubling.
The back would buck after a bump causing the front to wallow.

 

[Squatch]

Personally I'm not a fan of most "add-a Leafs" even the high tech ones put stress in places that weren't designed for the stress in the leaf pack. I consider them to be band-aids.

I think the best option is usually a heavier set of rear springs. Many spring places will custom make springs for the weight and ride height you want. That is if the aftermarket doesn't already make a spring from your truck. Good aftermarket springs often ride as well or better than stock while still providing more weight carrying ability.

Example below is the springs for my truck. The 1st +3rd are stock leaf packs. The 2nd and 4th are The heaviest Old Man Emu option for my truck. I'm using the same set on my other truck with OME's matching shocks and they work wonderfully.


Another option with domestic trucks is other factory springs. On the domestics historically there is much interchangability on different truck models.

Example years a few years ago we had a Dodge b200 3/4 ton maxi van. Maxi is the extra long rear end. This truck was usually loaded to weight rating and pulling a trailer. We found a set of nice springs from a B300 1 ton at a junk yard. Had new bushing installed and installed the springs. It made a huge difference in the way the truck rode and handled the load. Ford had many, many different spring variations in their trucks over the years. I'll bet the OP could find a nice set of f350 rear springs or similar for his truck. good long term solution.

 

[Cooter]

I have a Hawk on a 2015 F150 to which I have added Torklift Stableloads which rides and works just fine. I have never driven the truck and camper without Stableloads so don't know if they were really needed. I had decided though that if more was needed or that I have some spring failure in the future I would just buy a set of custom spring packs. When I checked locally a set could bought installed for 600$.

 

[busboy66]

The add-a-leafs I got from the spring shop were installed inside the spring pack; that is they took the spring packs apart, cleaned them up, added the extra leaf (1 per side) and then put it all back together with new center pins, leaf wraps, sliders, u-bolts and nuts. I don't see how they could add any stresses since they are slightly longer than the leaf below. But maybe some are different? Not sure.

I asked the shop about Deaver, OME etc. and they said for what my use case was the add-a-leaf was optimal. If I was going off road and needing articulation they would have either built me a set or got an aftermarket kit in. I wanted to stay away from used springs because you won't know if they are good until you get them on the truck.

Squatch, I have been reading about your truck build with interest. You have done mighty good work. Thanks for sharing.

 

[cdbrow1]

I have used Sumo SPrings by SuperSprings on my 2500 GMC with FWC. They restored close to a factory ride height and do not have the leaks or bumpiness of air bags or Tembrens. I would look into them.

 

[brianjwilson]

Esimmers,

Timbrens will do nothing to correct the sag you are experiencing.

That is incorrect. Timbrens generally install in the same location as air bags and serve the same purpose. They just aren't adjustable like air bags. They are a squishy hollow rubber spring that is maintenance free.

The reason some people find them objectionable is usually because they buy an off the shelf kit for their heavy duty truck, and it comes with a high durometer, heavy duty timbren. A little more than you probably care to read about it but....

For example, the lighter duty option fr250sdg comes with timbren model number 545-65 as seen here.
http://timbren.com/products-page/ses/fr250sdg/

Note that this rubber bumper has a rated load capacity of 4300lbs, and is 4.5" tall. It compresses a maximum of 2 - 3/4".
http://timbren.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Table-of-Dimensions-r070815.pdf

If you look at the last pdf, pay attention to the 530 and 535 timbrens. Similar height with load capacities from 700lbs to 3000lbs.


I'm not saying this is the best option, everyone has different needs. But just because you have timbrens doesn't mean it has to ride poorly or be bumpy.

I'm running timbrens on the back of my Tacoma. But it is a non standard setup. I have old man emu heavy duty leaf springs, with an extra leaf, and an overload removed. I have a u bolt plate above the axle, and my timbren plate is bolted on top with two bolts. Meaning I can unload the camper and remove the timbrens with only two bolts per side, so I don't deal with them all the time. I'm also running a taller and softer timbren to maintain a good ride quality. However my main reason for using these instead of air bags is off road use. My truck is lifted with longer shocks, and there is no worry about over extended or bottoming out like there are with air bags. The only real downside for me is that I'm unable to use the last 1.5" or so of suspension travel due to the way they're setup. This would be the same thing with airbags and brackets. I think I'm going to commit to leaving the camper on the truck full time soon, so I will be buying a custom spring pack from deaver which is really the best way to do it.

Having said all that, I wouldn't hesitate to run airbags on a full size truck again as I have in the past. It is a very simple and effective setup. You can inflate them with a hand pump and adjust your ride height very easily. If you're not using the truck heavily off road I definitely wouldn't have a concern about them at all.

 

[JHanson]

That is incorrect. Timbrens generally install in the same location as air bags and serve the same purpose. They just aren't adjustable like air bags. They are a squishy hollow rubber spring that is maintenance free.

Hmm . . . on the trucks I've seen with Timbrens installed, they did not contact the axle until the truck actually sagged under load; in other words, they acted like extended bump stops rather than full-time support, as an air bag does. Is there a different method of installing them?

This is what the ones I've seen look like:

Installed the way I've seen them, the truck has to sag before they even engage.

 

[Foy]

For clarity, my bump stop contact is not the main leaf bump stops but instead is limited to bump stops at each end of the short single leaf overload spring. In essence, I have engaged the overload leaf all the time by limiting the amount of rear suspension travel before they're engaged.

What I failed to mention is the effect on handling. Not that an 8,000 lb truck is ever going to handle like a Porsche, but having the rear suspension SO greatly stiffened and with so little travel creates an odd feel up front--the rear wants to act as though there is no suspension at all, and when driving over uneven or even slightly bumpy surfaces, the steering gets a bit weird.

Foy

FWIW, my overload spring mods are Torklift Stable-Loads, not Timbrens. When I saw Stable-Loads mentioned above, it spurred my memory. They mount by simply prying out the OEM flat rubber bumpstops and replacing them with the thicker Stable-Load bumpstops positioned over each end of the single-leaf overload spring. My OEM main springs had sagged perhaps an inch overall, so I had to jack up the frame rail to let the axle sag just a bit in order to install them. As noted, now the overload is on or almost on the Stable-Loads all the time, so the effect is a reduction of further sag and a fairly dramatic stiffening of the rear suspension. If I were to remove some of the tools and gear from the back of the truck, I'd likely pick up a bit of suspension travel before the overload leaf contacts the Stable-Loads.

Foy