Are load range E tires really needed for camper?

[Maddogs]

FWC Hawk SHELL on order. Have new '23 Tundra with 7310 GVWR and supposedly 1,820 lbs payload. Estimating about $1,550 lbs load total including camper, people & gear, with minimal buildout from stock for a week or so trip. Truck came with Bridgestone Dueler H\T 265/60R20 tires (non-LT version) that say 2,469#@44PSI on the side, load index 112H. Camper will be used about 3 months intermittently each year and as daily driver with camper offloaded the other 9 months. Only plan to drive highways and gravel roads with camper on, no serious offroading.

The tire capacity added together for this 112 rated tire is about 9,876#. The vehicle weight + loaded weight is about 7,100#. Maybe this is too simplistic but it seems I have 2,776 total pounds of safety margin. So my question to you all is, if I crank up the pressure to the max 44# when I carry the camper will these tires be OK for my situation? I really don't want to have to buy new tires for a brand new truck.

 

[kmcintyre]

Check craigslist for take-offs, etc. but I would say the short answer is get a LT, E rated tire.

 

[heinphoto]

You should really be evaluating the load separately on each axle since it probably won't be distributed evenly front to back. What I would probably do is wait until you get the new rig and when you have it fully loaded with everything for your first trip (fuel, propane, water, beer, passengers, pets, etc.), take it to a CAT scale and get the actual weight on each axle. You can then make an informed decision on whether you need higher load range tires. It is surprising how quickly the weight of everything adds up.

Also, you should be aware that the load also won't likely be distributed evenly side to side, but it is difficult finding a scale that will give you weight on individual tires. In the case of my side-dinette Grandby, the driver's side tires likely have more of the weight since most of the cabinets and appliances are on that side. So, i just use a larger safety margin when determining the inflation pressure to use.

One of the additional advantages of E range tires is that they have stronger side walls, which can be important off pavement where your side walls might encounter rocks. However, it sounds like that isn't currently in your plans.

Personally, I would want E rated LT tires on my camping rig for the peace of mind, but I do understand that it is difficult to ditch your brand new tires.

 

[Maddogs]

Thanks for replies, all good thoughts. I'm pretty anal about weight counting, we are coming from a lightweight long distance backpacking background and are moving up to a more solid roof than a backpacking tent in our (older) age. Got tired of sleeping in puddles and drying out tents and sleeping bags. We got the FWC shell model to have the lowest weight possible (aside from the project M) and plan on using the same lightweight backpacking gear for our camper setup. I have added up the weight of the couple options we added also. Our week-trip packs full weigh about #70 max together and the 2 of us weigh less than #300. Add a 5 gallon jerry can at most for water and a #50 cooler (a luxury for us) and we are being very conservative with the estimated 1,550# weight estimate. For sure getting an axle or per-wheel weight number would be ideal but we live too far from anyplace that might have that capability. We have to drive 2 states east to pick up the camper in June (Bozeman) and I will check out if they have any weighing options there.

 

[heinphoto]

It's good that you are thinking about these issues in advance. CAT scales are pretty widely distributed across the country (but mostly along freeways), and they are easy to use. It looks like there are some in the vicinity of Bozeman on I-90:

https://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator/

You may also be able to find other scales to use as well (landfills, etc.).

Enjoy your new camper!

-Scott

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Depending on load, you may not need to go with en E rated tires. One of the most adventurous members of the forum has a mid size truck, a small camper made for mid size, and runs C Cooper AT 3 tires. To the best of my knowledge, in ten years, they’ve only had one incident, an obsidian slice in Nevada.

I on the other hand have punched a thumb size piece of shale directly through the tread of a brand new E rate tire on a F250 with a full size pop up camper.

 

[Maddogs]

Thanks ! I had to read up on what a CAT scale was but it looks like that is a good option.

 

[BBZ]

You don't "need" them, until you need them..
I was in the same boat with our first camper, had brand new tires and didn't want to get new ones. We had an old Fleet that was gutted and very basic, weighed less than 700 lbs.

We made a Baja trip with those tires and it all worked out, however, sliced a sidewall (not all the way through) and I was nervous the whole trip, fortunately it worked out fine..

I will say I feel the e rated tires feel firmer in corners, less side to side roll..

Likely you could sell yours and pick some up for not too much out of pocket?? I found some on Craigslist that year and just used them for longer travel trips and then swapped back when camper was not being used much..

 

[craig333]

Yes, E rated tires can still have problems. Ask me how I know
You're in the right place. I'd guess a majority of us got tired of sleeping on the ground. Funny how it becomes less fun as we age!

 

[rubberlegs]

Your situation is similar to ours, and I struggled with the same question. Most of my hiking and climbing was in running shoes, unless on snow, so I had the same thoughts on truck tires. We do rough roads, however, and punctured a P-rated sidewall early in our new 4WD-ing career (just past the shelf road beyond Cerro Gordo -- a pretty nasty road).

If we just drove on pavement and our local forest service roads in Washington state, I think P-rated tires would work fine. But we are into the deserts during late fall through early spring and have discovered the wonders of sunnier climates. The roads are rough and rocky, so we spent more than $1000 on E-rated tires. So far, so good. I sold the P-rated tires for a few hundred bucks after using them for 9000 miles.

I was concerned the E-rated would be noisier and get worse mileage than P-rated, but I can't detect any difference. The E-rated needs much higher pressures -- for long trips we use 47psi front, 62psi rear (our truck is overloaded despite trying to be like backpackers). The P-rated tires were at 35 psi but the rear were probably too low for the load. I've never seen charts for P-rated tire pressures like you can find for E-rated.

Note that all the weight of our camper and supplies went on the rear axle, including a lot of stuff we have behind the front seats. Also note that P-rated tires are to be derated 10% when used on trucks. There's a bunch of discussion here: https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/17823-tire-pressure-carrying-hawk-on-tundra-w-e-coopers/

 

[BBZ]

Yes, E rated tires can still have problems. Ask me how I know
You're in the right place. I'd guess a majority of us got tired of sleeping on the ground. Funny how it becomes less fun as we age!

so true... now my wife really wants a bathroom... ugh

 

[Taku]

i have punched holes directly through tread with E rated tires without a camper and not even driving that fast. They will help, but much depends on the native surface you are driving on, how worn your tires, your speed and chance. I have also driven about 130,000 miles on E rated tires with two different campers and have not had a flat.

 

[buckland]

Yes. Just knowing I have the strongest... I have been places where I had even hoped it would be enough... better safe ...than sorry. The only time you need something is when you don't have it.

 

[Sleddog]

My Tundra came with P rated tires, they made it 20,000 miles before one of the local forest service roads tore big chunks out of the tread. This was not serious off-roading. There were a few, apparently very sharp little rocks, otherwise it was a decent road to a huckleberry picking spot. Got rid of those P rated tires and went to an E rated LT tire, not a problem since, not even on that same road. This was long before I got a FWC, just had a lightweight aluminum topper at the time. Unless you plan to stay strictly on pavement, I would get rid of those stock tires now while you can get a little money out of them

 

[TacomaAustin]

Just read the OP's first post on this thread - "Bridgestone Dueler H\T 265/60R20 tires" - and noticed the low profile tire size.

I may be a bit old-school, but on under maintained, unpaved roads - I'd want at a minimum a tire with a 70 side profile for when the tires are aired down. I run a 75 side profile.

The "Catch 22" with E Rated, LT All-Terrain tires - is three fold.

• First, I prefer an upgrade to the stock shocks to handle the heavier tires.
• A decent E Rated tire will weigh 50 plus pounds versus thirty whatever pounds for the stock tires - which will affect fuel mileage.
• Last but not least - expect a harsh ride when the camper is removed from the truck, which in my case is most of the year.

 

[Smokecreek1]

I'll take the rougher ride anytime, but I too keep buying my 10ply, E-rated tires with those nice thick sides. 30 plus years of driving those rocky back country roads with BLM and a lifetime of working and playing out where you carry two spares so you will make it home that night. Quick story, back in 1989, BLM gave me a new truck to replace my old faithful 1980 3/4 ton Dodge Power Wagon and it arrived with 2 ply tires and instead of taking it down to the shop and replacing them with 10plys, I had a rush job and took a chance and headed out and even before I hit the real 4x4 roads (tracks) I had not one but two flats (side walls) on a normal gravel road and lucky for me, I was still in radio range and was saved ---never made that mistake again!

Smoke

 

[Maddogs]

thanks for all input. RE TacomaAustin's suggestion on taller tires I did a quick search for 65-70 offerings, and using this cool tire size calculator I found https://www.calculator.net/tire-size-calculator.html it looks like the diameter of the next size (65's) for my 20" rims would put me over 34" total diameter. I used the 275 width in the calculator as I could not find any actual tires with 265x65 or 270x65. I have read in other posts that you don't want to go over 34" on the stock tundra. What do folks here think of this? I am definitely not lifting the truck or messing with the wheel wells in any shape or form. Nor would I get smaller rims. It's largely based on cost, it was a tough sell for my wife for us to get this truck in the first place and having to swap tires right away would be hard to explain (haven't mentioned this yet to her, waiting for after a nice dinner and jug of wine) let alone getting new rims. Like I said, we will be doing light gravel (like bristlecones in NV). If we were to even think of doing Baja or Alcan then I would for sure go for E range tires of same size.

 

[Maddogs]

OP Update: Well I figured I'd bite the bullet early while there are fewer miles on the original tires in the hope it will make them easier to sell. Yesterday I had installed a set of Michelin defender LTX 275-65R20 based on consistent high ratings on the things that matter to us. I got a chance to drive them 50 miles home on a mix of freeways at 75mph and rough country paved roads, and honestly I didn't feel much of a difference in the ride or handing. I expected a really noticeably stiffer ride with the 80 PSI in them and stiffer sidewalls but it really wasn't much. Possibly it was going up one size in both width and height that affected this but I don't know. As I mentioned in an earlier post the original tires were Bridgestone dueler H/T 685 265-60R20. Now I will need to study up on the air pressure tweaking a lot of folks have posted about with these HD tires. That part is new to us, we do a lot of crazy mountain roads and snow diving to get to trailheads and snowparks with our beater '96 tacoma, and even on the roughest babyhead and gravel shard roads have never had to worry about airing down, but we've always had capable tires on it (currently Toyo open country A/T 31x10.5R15LT).

EDIT: feelin' kinda dumb now - don't know why I expected the installers to put 80 PSI in them, just measured and they are at 35PSI all around. No wonder I didn't notice much if any difference... So we will be airing UP whenever I get the axle weights when the camper is loaded more often than airing down.

 

[ckent323]

FWIW:

I have owned my 1993 Dodge Diesel W250 ClubCab, long bed since 1999. It had 125,000 miles on it when I purchased the truck from the first owner and it now has just over 400,000 miles. It had Continental tires (205/85/R16 as I recall) when I bought it. The on highway steering was tight and it felt like it ran on rails. I have used it for multiple ski trips annually and I have driving thousands of miles of graded dirt and worse roads with it. Other than short sections of mud or sand encountered on graded dirt roads and a few 2 track roads, I have only driven it in muddy or sandy conditions once or twice and not enough to say anything about comparative tire performance.

After those Continental tires wore out I switched to Michelin LTX 215/85/R16. Steering was not quite as tight but I felt like the tires performed better in snow (I am a long time season pass holder at Mammoth Mountain Ski area).

At some point I put on a set of Bridgestone Dueler tires, in 245/65 or 70 as I recall. They performed poorly and did not last long. My impression is they were too wide for my trucks steering setup. I went back to the Michelin LTX and tried them in 235/75/r16 but I was not happy with the steering or the on snow performance, although it was a lot better than the Bridgestone tires.

I went back to the Michelin LTX 215/85/r16 (later the LTX Defender) and have had several sets over the years. I find the narrower and taller tires are better in the snow (I don't air down).
Before our 3 month drive to Alaska and Canada in 2021 I put on a set of the new Michelin Cross Climate 215/85/r16 tires and I am happy with the on road performance (ride, noise, steering) as well as the on snow performance. They are wearing very well (slowly) and I expect to get 60,000 to 70,000 miles out of them.

I typically get 60,000 - 70-000 out of a set of these Michelin tires.

All of these tires were load range E and I typically run them between 70 and 80 psi. On highway I think 80 psi is a bit better than 70 psi. (one of these days I am going to put onboard air on the truck so I can air down and air back up).

I hope this information is useful.

Craig

 

[TacomaAustin]

Congratulations on the new tires.

EDIT: feelin' kinda dumb now - don't know why I expected the installers to put 80 PSI in them, just measured and they are at 35PSI all around. No wonder I didn't notice much if any difference... So we will be airing UP whenever I get the axle weights when the camper is loaded more often than airing down.

The good folks at Discount Tire inflated my E rated Toyo Open Country AT3 tires to 32 PSI when I bought them. On the way home in my 1st Gen Tundra, at any speed above 40 miles per hour they were loud and I do mean loud. With an empty cargo bed - 40 PSI noticeably quiets the tires. I live in a pot hole prone city, so 40 PSI delivers what I'll call a harsh ride.