Attn: wiring gurus...03Grandby circuit ???

[AK Nomad]

Upon getting my newly acquired camper home, I was going over everything and seeing how stuff worked, and when I flipped on the rear flood light switch it killed the power to everything (happened on 12VDC and 120VAC).

I rec'd an owner's manual for the converter in the mail today, and it says the converter will shut down in the event of a short circuit.

I have the Converter completely removed at this time. There are 3 DC camper circuits fed by the Elixer 30 Converter. The brown wire (one of the 3 camper circuits) has continuity to ground. The other two circuits do not. I believe the rear floods are on this brown wire circuit.

Now, I think if I tested continuity to ground with a light switch on, then yes, I should have continuity (through the lamp resistor)....right? But if I make sure all light switches are in the off position, this circuit probably should not have continuity to ground.

Question: Does anyone know what other loads (appliances, etc) are on this brown wire circuit? I asked FWC for a wiring diagram of my camper, but I'm told they didn't have one. Does it seem probable that somewhere on this circuit I have a short to ground that is causing my problem?

Would appreciate any input. I look forward to getting it out of the garage and onto my truck!

 

[benburnett]

wire

Sounds like you have a screw going through the wire and grounding it to the frame somewhere. That would be my first guess. I would think that FWC would have some advice on that one for you. I do not know their wire system well enough to trace it down for you.

If you can't get some answers give us a call and I'll put you in touch with Jeff. He may be able to trouble shoot it for you.

 

[b team]

I would first check around the rear flood light assy. Since the fuse only blows when the light is on i'd narrow my diagnosis to that circuit. IIRC on my eagle the brown also feeds the furnace and gas/CO detector so even with all switches off you'll still see continuity to ground. Don't quote me as I've had a good number of beers tonight and need some sleep....later.

 

[AK Nomad]

Thanks guys....
Yes, it acts like a screw piercing a wire somewhere.
I have taken the rear floods off and apart and checked that all out. I added some heat shrink to the wire at the penetration to the camper where the insulation was scuffed off by the sharp metal edge. I had thought that was the problem originally, but it wasn't. I keep tracing from the converter on back. Maybe I'll get some time this weekend.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

Hello AK Nomad


when you are turning on the rear flood lights, are all of the camper lights dimming / turning off temporarily, and them coming back on when you turn the rear flood lights off again ?

Or is is popping a fuse in the fuse panel somewhere ?

I will see what I can find out for you ...





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[AK Nomad]

Stan, when I switch on the rear floods, it seems to "trip" something, as everything will go off (lights, CO detector, etc.) temporarily. Upon turning the rear flood light switch back to the off position, usually there is a delay and then all of the other things will come back on automatically. There has been no fuses blowing.

The ELX-30 Owners Manual reads "Your converter will shut down automatically if a short circuit is detected. Once short circuit is corrected, the unit will function again."

I'm currently trying to trace out the brown-wire circuit, looking for a short. When I spoke with Chicali, our discussion was mostly about converters, and I understand FWC is using a different brand/model now. I'm not convinced, yet, that the converter is causing the trouble, and so I'll keep looking.

Any info you could provide would be appreciated. I'll post my progress.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

Hey AK Nomad


that is a first -- I'm sure stuff like that happens, but I haven't directly heard of something happening in that fashion.

if the converter is working for other items, then it the converter should be working fine (in theory).

BUT, those elixer converters are a piece of junk (just my opinion) --- I'm very happy we didn't use them long before figuring out they were of poor quality.

We now use the Iota 30 amp and they seem to be very reliable, so far so good.

it is surprising that it is not popping the fuse for the rear flood lights ?

have you tried replacing the 12v fuses (all of them) ?

even if the fuse looks good, it is worth changing it out anyway -- I have seen many bad fuses that look OK at a glance.

on those converters, I believe several of the items in the campers shared a 12v fuse -- so one fuse would cover a few different items.

the new campers have a dedicated fuse for most each option so it is easier to trouble shoot this kind of stuff.

if you pull the converter out, you should be able to trace each set of wires to see what wire goes to what item in the camper and troubleshoot backwards.

the rear flood lights should be grounded to the rear wall of the camper / the camper frame right there on the rear flood light mounting bracket, so a bad ground might not be the problem --- at least not the ground wire for the flood lights themselves.

I don't know if another bad ground wire would give you the same problem ?

It might just be that the converter is starting to "poop out" on you -- we have wanted to strangle the elixer manf. people more than once for the troubles we have had with their products.

If it was a stray bad ground wire somewhere else, I would think turning on other items in the camper would give you the same problem since the ground and fuses are shared with several items.

I'm starting to think the converter might not be up to par ? (really hard to tell without having the camper to see what is happening)

BUT, thinking further, if you are running everything on 12v only (and don't have the camper plugged in to 120v power at all) -- and you are still having the same problem, I would guess that would rule out that the converter is going bad ?

It might be something else in the camper wiring giving you a problem.

BUT, I don't know that for sure ??? We have had separate fuse blocks in the campers (before and after) that converter, but I think those fuses are build into the converter ? So if the converter is bad, even if you don't have it plugged in to 120v power, will it still affect the 12v side of things, -- this I'm not sure of.

let me know if this helps at all -- just trying to think it through since you are not here ...



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[AK Nomad]

Thanks again for your thoughts. Last night, I traced through the various circuits and discovered no problems with the camper wiring. I tore the converter apart and found where the internal circuit board had shorted to the frame at one of the mounts (the board was burned at this spot and I tested for continuity). I cut off that mount with a hacksaw (there are 3 other mounts that hold the board in place).

First, I tested the circuits hooked directly to a 12V battery (using a fuse of course) and everything worked fine, including the rear flood lights. Then I connected the loads through the converter, and now everything works again, including the rear flood lights.

I'm not quite sure I trust this ELX-30 converter now though. It was kind of sparky when I hooked it up, so there still may be some problems internally. I think I'm going to agree with you and Chicali, that it is a piece of junk. I hate to re-install it and have problems down the road in some remote part of the world.

I guess I need to figure out how to convert my setup over to the new converter (IOTA) and fuse panel. It sure sounds like a better setup. I would like having more than 3 fuses for the entire camper (several loads on one fuse), but this would involve some re-wiring and pulling the heater to access some of that wiring harness where circuits are combined.

Anybody out there ever done this conversion or have any suggestions?

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

Hello AK Nomad


CAN YOU E-MAIL ME A PICTURES OF THAT YOUR KITCHEN CABINETS LOOK LIKE ?

ALSO A PIC OF THE CONVERTER ?


I might be able to walk you through it over the phone.

My e-mail is ... stan@fourwh.com


I have seen a customer do that in a very simple fashion, it looked nice, and seems like a solid set up.



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[AK Nomad]

Wondering if the pics made it to ya, Stan. I think I'm going to order a new converter and other parts. Question is how you install it for proper air-flow. Would be nice to see pictures of current installations. I'll post my results in case it might help others.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

Hello AK Nomad

yes, I got your pictures -- thanks.

I was hoping you had the original FWC layout, but it looks like you have the "X" Model -- just something we called that floor plan when it came out in 2004. We only built that floor plan for a year (or maybe less). We then did a major redesign sometime around the end of 2004 + or -

The conversions I have seen were on our original floor plan.
I need to get together with the production manager to get his thoughts on a possible location you can install the new converter.

I can send you pictures of how we do it now, but I'm not sure that will help. The location where the converter goes now is in a space you don't have (because your cabinets are so much different).

Here are the 2 of the locations we have located them in the past in case others might want to see them ...



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