Backcountry/Roadside Camping Rules Change DVNP

[ski3pin]

Important changes to backcountry camping along Echo Canyon Road, Hole in the Wall Road, and Cottonwood/Marble Canyon.



Regulations and Information

• Free permits are required for roadside camping along Echo Canyon Road, Hole in the Wall Road, Cottonwood Canyon Road, and Marble Canyon Road. Camping in these areas is only allowed in designated sites with a free permit.
• Free permits are required for overnight camping along the Cottonwood Canyon - Marble Canyon Loop.
• Permits are recomended--but not required--for roadside camping and backpacking on other parts of the park.
• Campfires are prohibited. Fire can only be made in established campgrounds with provided metal fire rings. Gathering wood is unlawful and burning of wood is not allowed in the backcountry. Campstoves and propane grills are allowed in all areas.
• Group size is limited to 12 people and no more than 4 vehicles. Larger groups must split up and camp at least 1/2 mile apart.
• Off-Road Driving is prohibited. The desert environment is extremely fragile and slow to recover from vehicle damage. If pulling off a road to camp, choose a place that has already been disturbed.
• Pets are permitted ONLY in developed areas and on park roads. They must be leashed and restrained at all times. Owners are responsible for clean-up of pet feces. Pets are NOT allowed off roads, on trails, or in the wilderness areas of the park.

Permit can be obtained the same day or one day in advance in person at the Furnace Creek Visitors Center or the Stovepipe Wells Ranger Station during regular business hours.

More information - DVNP Backcountry Camping

 

[lqhikers]

looks to me that it is another way to limit use.
If you can get a campfire permit on line it would seem to me a camp permit on line
should also be possible.

Les,lqhikers

 

[rubberlegs]

It looks like their backcountry map hasn't been changed to reflect this. For example, Hole in the Wall Rd doesn't show anything similar to the yellow-marked areas on the rest of the map. Maybe that's coming soon.

https://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/upload/508-Backcountry-and-Wilderness-Access-map_.pdf

We, as relatively new truck campers (just a few years), are part of the explosion of dispersed camping. This has happened in many backpacking areas that we used to frequent. Then again, we aren't crowding those hiking destinations any more!

 

[ski3pin]

Since we've been dispersed camping in DVNP for many years, we see that this change in regulations was inevitable and should, I hope, have positive aspects. Human waste, over use, illegal cross country driving, illegal campfires need to be controlled. No need to go into the horror stories of what we've seen over the years.

Echo, Hole in the Wall, and Cottonwood/Marble are currently closed because of the recent flooding. I expect, with the road repair, NPS is working on marking the new designated sites prior to reopening. I expect that signage is going up at the entrances to these routes. Again, I sure hope so.

Since these regulations are new, I can understand the in person requirement. Perhaps it will be appropriate some time in the future to offer online permits. I don't like change as much as the next person, but if this helps end the abuse taking place in the Park's backcountry. I support it.

 

[AWG_Pics]

Seems reasonable.

 

[daverave]

We've been backcountry dispersed camping in DV for decades, the last seven years in our Hawk. I must admit that we haven't been to any of these roads recently, frankly, because they've become too crowded and overused. So on one hand I think this is a great thing. On the other hand I am concerned that once these areas are successfully regulated that the same rules will be applied to many other dispersed areas of the park which will inevitably be absorbing former users of the now regulated roads. It is a slippery slope indeed....

On our recent trip to Michigan's UP we saw some of this in action. In at least one NF there they have made every campground and now every frequently used dispersed camping site available only thru recreation.gov (or as we started calling it, recreation.ripoff.) They have intentionally changed the nomenclature from "dispersed" to "designated." Even sites that had no toilet, picnic table or even a fire ring were handled through the website. That included sites that were only big enough for one vehicle deep in the woods.

 

[daverave]

Attached is a photo of the sign at one of the remote dispersed/designated camp sites, big enough for just one vehicle that I referenced above. Of course deep in the woods it is often impossible to get a good enough signal to even log into recreation.gov so the unplanned, spontaneous camping that we like to do is being phased out by gov't edict. Later when we got a decent signal I discovered that the site could not be reserved because it was closed for the season. No indication of that on-site.

Sorry for the semi-thread hijack ;-)

 

[billharr]

Pogo: we have met the enemy and he is us.

Just too many people doing what us old farts loved to do. We are seeing the USFS and NPS cure for the problem.

• First, restrict the dispersed camping.
• Second, require reservation for the dispersed camping.
• Third, install campgrounds to "improve" the camping experience.
• Fourth improve the roads so class A motorhomes can access what was 4x4 dispersed camping.
• Fifth, remove campsites when the campgrounds get over used because they are now easy to access.

Enjoy and take care of what you have while you have it. It is going away. Apps like IOverlander and the like are part of the problem.

I have no answer.

 

[kmcintyre]

Pogo: we have met the enemy and he is us.

Just too many people doing what us old farts loved to do. We are seeing the USFS and NPS cure for the problem.

• First, restrict the dispersed camping.
• Second, require reservation for the dispersed camping.
• Third, install campgrounds to "improve" the camping experience.
• Fourth improve the roads so class A motorhomes can access what was 4x4 dispersed camping.
• Fifth, remove campsites when the campgrounds get over used because they are now easy to access.

Enjoy and take care of what you have while you have it. It is going away. Apps like IOverlander and the like are part of the problem.

I have no answer.

Bill,

I am not sure I agree with your assessments as I like to disperse camp because it gives me freedom from having to plan my route exactly and gives me freedom. Having to make reservations becomes a process of 'click and win' BUT I agree that it would restrict and control crowds. I don't want to camp in designated campgrounds (we do that but not necessary in DV), I'm not sure what remove campsites at overused really means but wouldn't that just push more people to other areas.

I definately don't think adding more roads helps the overused despersed camping. I personally don't want Class A motorhomes out there with generators running, etc.

Can you elaborate your recommendation OR are you being sacastic?

 

[AWG_Pics]

If you explore the western US and you have a 4x4 and are self sufficient, there is no lack of dispersed camping on public lands. The recent surge of 'new campers' prompted by the pandemic seems to be waning. On a recent 3 week wander to eastern Nevada, central and southern Utah we had only one sighting of a full campground -- that was Goblin Valley. Otherwise the times we tried campgrounds we had no issues finding good locations and had the pick of which site we wanted (Angel Lake, Angel Creek, Cave Lake, Great Basin NP, Castle Rocks, Lamoille Canyon, Lonesome Beaver.) When we wanted to boondock (2/3 of the trip), we had no issues with finding remote beautiful spots with no neighbors within sight or hearing.

We have a growing population in the US, very capable vehicles, readily available satellite imagery, many backcountry vloggers and gps enabled map apps, making it inevitable we will see more people poking into the remote areas. The alternative to land management, with all its' drawbacks, is land neglect, which has a host of problems and too often leads to destruction of the very places people love to go to retreat from the ills of being overcivilized.

I noticed most of the places we like to go boondocking in DVNP are not included in the new permitting restrictions. It is a very big park.

 

[craig333]

The rules by themselves don't bother me. I understand the need to regulate camping. What worries me is how it is enforced. A lot will be up to the park management. Some will enforce the rules loosely while others may choose to enforce the rules to the point where its nearly impossible to camp at all. Too much depends on who is chosen as the park "boss".

 

[rubberlegs]

We've seen it happen in popular backpacking areas in the Sierra and Cascades. It seems necessary and it seems to work. Now some of those remote areas are uber popular with the trail running crowd, who "hike" 30-50 miles with nothing but a water bag on their backs and a few gels, which gets them around the permit issues. Uh-oh. I sound like a curmudgeon.

 

[billharr]

Bill,

I am not sure I agree with your assessments as I like to disperse camp because it gives me freedom from having to plan my route exactly and gives me freedom. Having to make reservations becomes a process of 'click and win' BUT I agree that it would restrict and control crowds. I don't want to camp in designated campgrounds (we do that but not necessary in DV), I'm not sure what remove campsites at overused really means but wouldn't that just push more people to other areas.

I definately don't think adding more roads helps the overused despersed camping. I personally don't want Class A motorhomes out there with generators running, etc.

Can you elaborate your recommendation OR are you being sacastic?

One area I have camped in for almost 60 years is the Utica Union and Spicer Dam area. Once there was only the old PG&E road from Lake Alpine to Utica Union and on to Spicers. I have camped and ridden motorcycles all over the area. I have ridden to Elephant Lake before the Carson Iceberg Wilderness. Spicers was raised and the new road was put in. First it was gravel and then paved. Dispersed campgrounds around Spicers and Utica Union became "improved" campgrounds with a fee. You now see Class A motorhomes at Spicers and I have seen Priuses at Utica Union. What once was a great dispersed camping area is now a zoo. Signs to limit parking close to the lake so people can unload there stand up paddle boards. Areas where you could camp away from the "improved" fee camping are not marked with no camping signs. Camping in approved campgrounds only.

In January 1997 Yosemite NP had a flood. When all was said and done, the park lost 300 campsites and 200 sleeping beds. They have never came back. When Covid started the reason given for the Yosemite entrance reservation system was to limit contact. Well the National Park system liked it so much I do not think it will ever go away. In 2021 you could get a through the park pass to drive over Tioga Pass. In 2022 no more passes to drive over Tioga, must have a reservation or a camping reservation.

Have you been over Tioga Pass and through Tuolumne Meadows this year? The rehabilitation of Tioga Road is almost done. There are curbs all along Hwy 120 through Tuolumne Meadows. Before this was parking for hundreds of cars, it is now gone. I expect gridlock next year when the summer crowd show up.

Tenaya lake also has new curbs away from the lake and a sidewalk lake side with a curb. Very limited parking. Looks like the NPS wants to limit access. When the inevitable gridlock happens I can see a reduction in park reservations to prevent the gridlock on Hwy 120.

Rant over.