Batteries

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BWSracing

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Hey guys, time for some new batteries and was looking for some advice on quality long lasting brands. I have heard good things about the deka batteries. I Also wanted to move to a slightly larger battery as there is room for the next size up. Thanks for the help.
 
I have 2 x Deka 6 volt batteries in my travel trailer and they are great. I also had dual Deka Intimidator's in my old Xterra and they were fantastic. I'm an East Penn power wheelchair battery dealer, so Deka is an easy choice for me....but I wouldn't continue to use them, or give my two thumbs up, if they hadn't been reliable for me.

I'm trying to decide if it;s going to be worthwhile to run a dual battery setup in the Tundra (I don't really think it will be) given the Hawk will have it's own battery source. I ordered our Hawk (still in production) with a single battery (will have the 3-way fridge) but I'll be keeping an eye on my power needs and see if I need to upgrade my battery bank I'll be looking at the Deka brand again.
 
For $600 for 220ah (ampere hours don't add if the batteries are 6v in series) I would consider a lithium pack. You can get nearly the same useable capacity (100Ah) for $800 - $900 (or $250 if you are into DIY) and it will weigh 1/4 and last 2-3 times longer.
 
Rando,

I bought my batteries in July before you posted your do it yourself (DIY) LiFePO4 battery pack thread. I looked at LiFePO4 batteries at that time but I thought they were just too expensive. I was already at my comfort limit spending $300 a battery. At that time the best 12V LiFePO4 battery price I found was over $1000 for 12v 100Ah and a lot more for 220 Ah. So I went with AGM and their extra weight and shorter expected life (am trying to manage my AGM batteries to stay in the lifetime range of 1000 cycles or more and if successful these batteries may last many years).

However, these suckers weigh 66 lbs each. I like having the 220 AH capacity available (actually only about 55 AH of which is usable on a routine basis if I want the long life out of them). We pulled the bank down to about 70% for a short time on our long trip in August/September even with the 200 W of Solar panels.

My estimates are based on my understanding that It is generally accepted that the most economic and practical depth of discharge (DOD) for an AGM battery is <50%. For Lithium-iron-phosphate (LiFePO4 or LFP) which is the safest of the mainstream Li-ion battery types, <80% DOD is used. For maximum life (looking at cycles vs DOD curves it appears one should limit the DOD of an AGM to 30% or less on a routine basis. For a LiFePO4 it appears <50% would put them in a similar place on the lifetime curve.

So a LiFePO4 100 Ah battery bank would give about as much usable capacity as a 160 Ah AGM battery bank but with longer life by about 2.5x (If I understand things correctly). The weight for a 12v 100AH battery is around 40 pounds. Even using a 12 V 200 AH LiFePO4 battery the weight is around 60 pounds, so basically about half the weight of AGM (or FLA) batteries.

If one can get a 12v 100AH LiFePO4 battery for about $800 - $900 or less I agree that it is worth considering. If I were starting over and I could get DIY 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 for under $300 or so that would be a no brainer for me. Not sure if I would spend as much as $900 for a battery though. It seems to me that prices for 12v LiFePO4 batteries will likely come down in the future as these get widely adopted and more vendors start competing.

Edit 11-12-2017 - See comments #6 and #7 in the following thread for better information on battery life and revised thinking on my part Also see comment #10 which contains an excellent reference on battery life.

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/15467-solar-power-for-your-camper-%E2%80%93-where-to-start-hint-the-solar-panels-are-last-in-this-list-of-steps/



Regards,

Craig
 
BWSracing said:
Hey guys, time for some new batteries and was looking for some advice on quality long lasting brands. I have heard good things about the deka batteries. I Also wanted to move to a slightly larger battery as there is room for the next size up. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
If you have the room and are not shy of FLA, consider 2 X GC2 @ ~ 210 AH that are available for < $90 each. I am going on my 5th year on these and they are showing no signs of degradation (S.G. still 1.27+).

ckent323 said:
. . . It seems to me that prices for 12v LiFePO4 batteries will likely come down in the future as these get widely adopted and more vendors start competing . . .
Click to expand...
I was hoping the same thing, but with the push in China and EU for electric vehicles demand is going to exceed supply for a while. Prices will hold steady or rise until new sources of lithium are found (the gating commodity) and manufacturing capacity ramp up exceeds demand increases:

http://euanmearns.com/lithium-reserves-use-future-demand-and-price/

jim
 
My understanding was that the 100Ah battle born batteries were $900 for 100Ah and maybe a little less if you gave them a call and asked for a discount.

They definitely can't compete on $/Ah at all with flooded lead acid, but compared to the higher end AGM batteries, they are starting to get closer if you consider $/usable Ah. They still don't make sense in a fixed application, but our light weight campers may be an example of an application where they are getting closer to making sense.

The DIY option definitely makes sense, but it is not a project for everyone.
 
I have a pair of Lifelines but in 12v.. Funny, I paid the same price years ago - was richer back then ;) . They are pushing 8 years old, mounted full time under the truck. One of the features I liked is their ability to be charged rapidly, tolerant of a 1.0 x C charge rate (eg 100amps for 100AH). Just mentioning this in case it's a factor to the OP (?)

About 4.5 years ago I bought a pair of conventional Kirkland Marine/RV. Fairly inexpensive option and they seem to be working just fine. And I had great service from a Kirkland starting batt for the DD car that was replaced preemptively after 10+ years.
 
It was explained to me that the vast majority of batteries are made by a handful of manufacturers. This said I would take advantage of the Costco/Kirkland Brand and take advantage of the great customer service.
 
Ramblinman,

Here is a list of worldwide battery manufacturers (I suspect there are others not listed).

http://www.solar-facts.com/batteries/battery-manufacturers.php


I note that Concord Battery Corporation, manufacturer of Concord and Lifeline batteries, is not listed in that link. It is a privately held US company based in Covina, CA.


Here is another link the lists brands and corresponding manufacturer. I note that Concord is listed in this one. This seems to be a more comprehensive list. However, Johnson Controls is a notable omission from this list.

http://www.batterysales.com/brands.cfm

Johnson Controls makes batteries under the following brand names:

  • VARTA® batteries. Since 1887, VARTA has been a top-choice premium car battery in Europe and has become a benchmark for quality, expertise and precision technology. ...
  • LTH® batteries. ...
  • Heliar batteries. ...
  • MAC® batteries. ...
  • OPTIMA® batteries. ...
  • Delkor ® batteries. ...
  • PowerFrame® technology.

Interstate Battery System of America, Inc., a.k.a. Interstate Batteries, is a privately owned company that markets automotive batteries manufactured by Johnson Controls and others through independent distributors.

I think Kirkland brand may also use batteries made by Johnson Controls.


Edit addendum: I finally found the comprehensive list of battery brands and manufacturers I stumbled on a few years ago. the author of it has updated the list for 2017:

http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm


Regards,


Craig
 
Here are the replacements. Image1509997520.040100.jpg
 
I actually just bought the same Lifeline batteries as Craig: 2 Lifeline six volt 220 ah batteries. They are only a couple of months old but they are working quite well so far. But only time will tell. I figure by the time these need replacement, lithium ion will be mainstream.
 
I'm using the Vmaxtanks. Price was right but with only two seasons on them its too early to give a recommendation though they've performed well so far. Another five years would make me happy. I'd like to go Lithium when I retire. Hopefully the prices drop a bit by then.
 
I just replaced the last of my Optima's. I had 4 Blue Top Marine group 34. 1 for the truck and 3 for the boat. These were the US made ones before Johnson Controls bought them and moved production to Mexico.

Mine lasted 8+ years of rough use in a 4x4 that was regularly off roaded and in a bass boat.

But I won't buy another. I read of too many problems with the imported ones. Damn shame.

These were all replaced with Group 24 AGM's from Battery Warehouse.
 
I bought a pair of BlueTop 34's for my boat A few months ago. My vendor said production was moved back to the U.S. due the problems they had been having with the facility in Mexico. So far so good.

Paul
 
I bought a single 155 ah 12v Vmaxtank for my new build. It was the largest battery I could fit in my space otherwise would have gone with 2 6v golf cart batteries like I had in my old camper. No problems for but just 1 year in. Will probably go lithium when I replace it down the road to save weight - 93lbs!
 
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