Beating Myself Senseless With This Project....

[Sportsman Matt]

Howdy to the members of the forum,

As most have read I am trying to build a new camper for the back of my truck, a non cab over 8' long, 6' high, 7' wide slide in based on the drawings from the 1955 Popular Mechanics Encyclopedia. So far I've gone through 3 notebooks, 2 pads of graph paper, and numerous erasers. Yet I'm still at the basic design stage. So I'm going to give it one more go, maybe I'll get it right, but I'm seeking a few ideas on internal stuff.

So far I know I need a fridge, stove, heater, toilet, sink, internal water tank, grey tank or storage, propane tank storage (had a thread about this one a couple months back), lights, 2 or more roof vents and a fantastic fan for the ceiling (gotta move the air around), a dinette conversion, and storage for food, cooking gear, and clothing. Possibly a window AC unit also (this was a last minute thought, cheaper than the rooftop unit, plus less chance of clipping it on a branch)

Seems like alot, but I'm adding in a couple more things, like possibly a hatch in the floor for ice fishing up in the North Country, insulation, and jacks mounted so when the jacks are in the up position, they are at the same height as the bottom of the camper.

Now I'm working with an open slate, and before anyone responds about buying a new or used camper, I've got one already, but I'm looking to build something that will last as long or longer than my current rig, without the high price tag. Plus my current truck camper is 20 years old, and my girlfriend wants to start looking into a trailer so we can take all the kids (my 2 and her 1) on trips without having to take 2 vehicles or using the tents.

Right now I'm leaning towards a Wave 3 Heater, a small Norcold LP /110AC fridge, possibly the combo 2 Burner stove with oven from Camp Chef and 1lb LP Cyclinders (I cook outside 99% of the time, even at home when I can get away with it), and a Thetford Porta Potty (or Lugable Loo).

So any other ideas, comments, or suggestions?

Thanks

Matt

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

Matt-

I strongly urge you to read this post and then contact the poster.

I can design and build anything I want, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea-- for you or your family.

Mark

 

[Sportsman Matt]

Hi Mark,

I read that post, but as I put in my original post, I'm not looking to buy another truck camper. What I'm looking into is to build a new camper which I know will use better materials and last a whole lot longer than any factory unit. I've been offered several campers at a "reasonable" price, but the ammount of work involved to make them serviceable, would be back to or above the original MSRP from the manufacturer.

What I'm planning on is to build a simple box style unit that I can slide in my truck, drop off on site if I'm going to be in one place for a few days/weeks. One thought was also using it out on the Ice way up north for Ice Fishing, drop it off the truck and use a hatch in the floor for jigging.

But I've been over layout after layout after layout, and still beating my head as to layout or basics.

I did order a book "Travel Vans by John Speed" from the author in the UK, so I'm waiting for that to show up in a couple weeks, and the estimated start time of building is going to be in the early spring. I figure the framework will be the easiest, I'm doing a slight modification to the original PM plans, making it wider and taller. I'm sort of opting for a front U shaped dinette bed with a drop down overhead single bunk for an optional 3rd person if needed. Sort of a version similar to Steinbeck's camper in the book "Travels with Charlie"

So I'm still beating myself senseless, so far I've got the floor layout done, basic wall and roof construction drawn out for the 10th time, and my dimensions are good so far, everything is adding up to the set overall measurements.

As for building it myself, this would be my second camper I've built, the first was a total rehab of a Northeast Explorer Pop Up Trailer, which my ex got (along with a restored 1976 travel trailer) in the divorce. Luckily I got a good deal on the truck camper I bought after the divorce, biggest thing was the previous owner went over it every year and recaulked seams, fixed anything looking like it needed repairs, and sold it due to leg issues (he couldn't climb up or walk far without assistance)

So now I'm on camper #5 as my project for getting out fishing, camping in the woods, and general travelling. But I'm still beating myself against the wall with interior appliance layouts, designs of cabinets, etc.

Thanks for the info, definately hate to see him lose the camper, I know how much it hurts, especially seeing something you put so much time into go. (My ex sold 2 of the vans (joint owned business fleet vehicles) for scrap metal to a local junkyard, just to spite me during the divorce, she refused to sell them back to me for fair market value. Worse was the junkyard owner knew her father and had them crushed before I could even get over there to buy them back from him.) That really hurts worse than anything else.

So any other input on layouts or ideas on design I can try?

 

[Sportsman Matt]

Somehow I've got way too much time on my hands. Here's a question, I'm looking at the DE-0041 Norcold Refrigerator/Freezer Combo, but it doesn't clearly state if it needs to be vented to the outside of the camper, like the propane models do. All it says is that you need a opening of 30 7/8"h x 23 1/4"w x 23 1/2"d. It also calls for ventilation, but appears that it pulls air from underneath and vents it out the top by the controls. Anyone have one of these in a new rig, and do I need to add in a door on the outside wall for ventillation?

 

[chnlisle]

Somehow I've got way too much time on my hands. Here's a question, I'm looking at the DE-0041 Norcold Refrigerator/Freezer Combo, but it doesn't clearly state if it needs to be vented to the outside of the camper, like the propane models do. All it says is that you need a opening of 30 7/8"h x 23 1/4"w x 23 1/2"d. It also calls for ventilation, but appears that it pulls air from underneath and vents it out the top by the controls. Anyone have one of these in a new rig, and do I need to add in a door on the outside wall for ventillation?

If you absolutely have to have a fridge get an Engle.

 

[Sportsman Matt]

You know I'm actually thinking about that, making a shell with just a dinette that turns into a bunk, with a second drop down bunk or hammock for a 3rd person, and cabinets, along with the Lugable Loo in the corner for those early moring nature calls. Have to make room for 2 of them, 1 for a fridge, and one for a freezer (what can I say, I like ice cream for dessert when travelling)

Actually I'm thinking of having on one side, a Norcold N300 mounted up high, with a Wave 3 heater mounted beneath it, and the 2 burner stove mounted next to the Norcold with a small range hood. then on the opposite side, a small sink and plenty of cabinte storage. Toss in the U shaped Dinette / Couch/ bed and the hammock, and it's looking like a plan so far.

So what's the down side to the Engel Fridge/Freezer? I've read that the boating crowd is having problems with the Norcold DE series and the compressors that Norcold installs in them. Any issues with the Engel?

 

[ScottBailey]

What kind of truck do you have?

I despise the LP refer. Skip it, go with an Engel chest or maybe a Nova Kool (that's what I'd use). A couple batteries and a solar panel....

 

[Sportsman Matt]

Hi Scott, I've got a 02 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD regular cab long bed pickup. Only regret is it came through with the automatic transmission, and I'm getting over the white color, and GM made Air Conditioning a standard item, no longer an option, unlike my previous trucks which had no air conditioning, and good old manual transmissions.

As for the fridge, that's what I'm thinking. I looked at the Engel, but the Nova Kool can be mounted in the wall, where the Engel has to be more of a slide out or open system. I've got a brand new Norcold in my current camper, i love it, just have to check the flame on the burner every couple hours when driving behind 18 wheelers on the highway (the wind turbulence from the trucks tends to blow out the flame)

I did some more looking and rehashing the interior, the only problem I see now is the heater issue. I can use my Coleman 2 burner for a stove if needed, but one thought would be have a built in 2 burner stove fed off 1 lb cans, (I go through maybe 1 after a week of camping on the Coleman stove) The other thing is can the Wave 3 be run off 1 lb propane cans?

I'm thinking that I only need the propane when cooking or heating the camper, I can have a small line run from outside the camper into a quick disconnect to the 1 lb can, the other end tee off to the stove and the heater. Then if I need to change the bottle, it's outside, quick change and I'm back in business. Also I can carry 4 1 lb cans in smaller space than a traditional 20 lb bottle, without the hassle of the ventilation issues associated with the 20 lb tank. Plus I can remove the propane line from the truck when not needed, or use the 1 lb tank with the Coleman stove or gas lantern. not a permanent install, just a hook up when setting up, use it, and unhook it when packing up to travel type deal.

Other option for heat is the Atwood 8012-II Furnace, similar to the one in my camper now, only the new one has electronic ignition. Problem is it does use a bit of propane, so I would have to go for the 20 lb tank route if needed.

Options after options after options... it never ends.

 

[Rob in MT]

You mention the 1 lb propane can outside, does it need to be outside? I've read here that a regular coleman propane stove cannot be used inside the camper, why is that?

Also a question on the fridge. I've seen on this forum discussions on heavy duty well insulated ice coolers. Do you think there is that much more benefit from a solar/electric fidge versus using ice and these coolers? The extra cost, things to go wrong, etc.

Thanks for the information.

 

[DLN]

Rob,

A standard camp stove doesn't burn as completely and cleanly as the factory units designed for inside use. As a result they require very good ventilation to be used inside, a little scary from a safety standpoint. I think it was Ben at ATC who initially posted the explanation of the difference.

 

[Sportsman Matt]

I'll second the Coleman not burning clean enough. If you look at the burner design on the Coleman versus a traditional RV cooktop, the Coleman Burner has pure fuel coming out of the burner, which some of the gas may not burn off comletely. The RV cooktop burners have an air opening at the valve, with the gas being forced in, sucking air with it so the gas mixture burns completely. Sort of like diluting the fuel to make it burn cleaner.

I found various 2 and 3 burner cooktops at the rv surplus site, along with several sites selling the Wave heaters. Just didn't know if the Wave could run on a 1 lb propane tank. I know the cooktop will, and I saw in Cabelas they have a propane tank saver kit, consists of a frame to fit 2 bottles and a screw on fitting for the modern propane tank connection to your grill or RV regulator.

Still more things to think about.

 

[Sportsman Matt]

Got the book I ordered from England today.

Travel Vans by John Speed

All I can say is that in my opinion just glancing at it, it is definately worth the money.

Lots of building info, design info, and tips, lots which I hadn't thought about, or wasn't quite sure about.

Only downfall to this is that the book referenced for the European and Brittish folks, but it does mention lots of stuff that is pretty much universal around the globe as far as camper construction is concerned.

So I'm back with the pencil and paper again, this time doing some more sketches.

Couple things I plan on having inside, a 3 burner cooktop with oven, a Engal AC/DC Refrigerator (cabinet wall mounted), a fantastic fan, a small sink, and a porta potty or cassette toilet (the cassette toilet built in is looking rally good right now)

Just wondering about the heater, I'm torn between the Atwood Everest Direct discharge units which I've used before, and the Wave 3 heater. Only drawback I see to the Wave 3 is it isn't mountable in the wall or under a cabinet, unlike the Wave 6/8 units which can be cabinet or in wall mounted.

Any ideas or thoughts on the Wave 3?

 

[SunMan]

I'll be putting a Wave 3 in my rig shortly, seen one in action in a Grandby and it worked really well. If I was starting from scratch not sure which way i'd go though. The plus side is they don't draw on your battery and in my case i like that i can remove it when not required.

 

[ScottBailey]

Matt,

Did you mention your truck? If I were going to build it myself and do it right, I'd take a page from the boat builders: 12v refer (Nova Kool or Indel/Isotherm?), diesel stove top, and diesel heater. Maybe combo up the stove/heater? One fuel source sure sounds nice...

 

[chnlisle]

Matt,

Did you mention your truck? If I were going to build it myself and do it right, I'd take a page from the boat builders: 12v refer (Nova Kool or Indel/Isotherm?), diesel stove top, and diesel heater. Maybe combo up the stove/heater? One fuel source sure sounds nice...

I had that combo in my Morgan Outer Island 40 and loved it.

 

[ScottBailey]

I had that combo in my Morgan Outer Island 40 and loved it.


The stove/heater? Which brand, model? I'm seriously considering this mod... It's long term planning, but I think I'm going to do it. Any opinion on Isotherm vs Nova Kool?

 

[chnlisle]

The stove/oven & heater were Sig. The refer was a Isotherm. They all worked great. My burners were Origo non pressurized alky's.


So I had this thought and I'm hoping that it doesn't die of loneliness. What about getting a small Pop up trailer camper. removing the trailer and mounting the camper as a cab-chassis?

 

[Sportsman Matt]

I saw that over on the Expedition Portal Site, someone had a Tacoma with an old Palomino Pop Up on the top, problem was the first step was above the top of the bedrails.

I'm playing with Google Sketch7, Looks kinda cool to see what it may look like. Now if I can figure out how to get it from there to here to show you.

Still loving the ideas. Tough part is that my girlfriend is pushing for the travel trailer, which I don't really want to get into, and I'm looking at Palomino Truck Campers as an alternative (the M800 is a larger flip flop version of the one I have now, only not 20 years old)

Still I like the idea of building something and using it, it's more rewarding to do it yourself and enjoy it than get something store bought (like my fishing tackle).

Keep the ideas rolling, I'm changing things every time I visit here, getting new ideas every time.

 

[chnlisle]

A cab chassis set up eliminates bed rails.

 

[Sportsman Matt]

A cab chassis set up eliminates bed rails.


I would love to do that, but I still need the truck bed for hauling other things, along with needing to look somewhat normal going down the highway empty (for some reason a white pickup is a dime a dozen out here in New England, so the cops are less likely to look at you unless you are doing something stupid or make them notice)

After looking at various campers, and Stan's insight on the OSB in another thread (I totally forgot about certain manufacturers using the OSB chip board instead of plywood) I'm going to press on with this project.

So now I've got to build a shell, and put a couple windows, a door, a roof vent and a fantastic fan (buddy of mine got one in his camper finally installed yesterday...all I can say is I need one of them!)

Still trying to hash out a floor plan, I like the PM plan, but they didn't include the heater or fridge, or a sink either. But the bed part and couple seats is a cool idea.

More research, more time, atleast I have all winter to get this thing drawn up.