Blown airbag

[daverave]

Y’all can relax now, we’ve made it back safely to Sactown today ;-) There were no further suspension issues. We kept the remaking good airbag completely deflated. We did keep close to pavement (within an easy 3/4 mile) on the way back and found some neat spots.
I will follow up on this in the next couple of days with some additional input from others more knowledgeable than I am.

 

[daverave]

remaking=remaining

 

[daverave]

He confirmed what several have said that it was likely a poor install, guessing that Four Wheel Parts may have installed with the camper on it, a big no-no as you can’t really know the true ride height so the articulation was compromised. He also thought 35 psi was too low for the load.

What do people think about the contention from the mechanic that a proper airbag installation can not be done without removing the camper from the truck? He likened it to trying to install airbags with a trailer attached to the hitch. He also said that we should not drive the camper with one airbag even slightly inflated. He also thought that adding a leaf to the springs would be a waste of time/money. If he was trying to sell us something I might take his opinions less seriously but we both knew that I would be driving to California to have subsequent work done.

I'm pretty sure that Four Wheel Parts did not remove the camper for our springs and airbag installation seeing as how that would entail detaching the turnbuckles and the electrical hook-up to the truck battery. That would be something that would mean taking responsibility for re-installing the camper. (We also don't have jacks for the camper.) Maybe there is a camper-experienced suspension shop in Woodland that FWC can steer us to if camper removal is a good idea.

Thanks again for the wisdom!
Dave

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

I am going to add my 2 cents here.
When I transferred my 2009 ATC Bobcat from the Ford Ranger
to the 2002 Toyota Tundra,I couldn't add air bags to the Tundra.
The swap was made by going to ATC and Marty removing the Bobcat.
Driving across town to trade in the Ranger for the Tundra then back to
ATC and mount the Bobcat on the Tundra and drive home.

At home I ordered the Firestone air bags and mounted them WITH CAMPER ON.
That was 10 years ago today and I have driven over 37K miles and not a single problem.

IMO I don't thing the camper needs to be removed,for what reason I am not understanding.

Frank

 

[RONR]

Sorry I’m a little late to the party but thought it still may be helpful. I have an F150 and the Firestone airbags attach to the side of the frame. The two bolts that attach the bracket to the frame via the “frame hole bracket” (nuts?) apparently came loose and the entire bracket came off the frame. I did not know what had happened at the time, but was able to get a tow to a shop that put a new pair of bags on. The shop did the installation with the camper on.

So two things.

1. I’ve had airbags, shocks, extra leaf spring added all while leaving the FWC camper on. I leave the camper on full time and it’s never come up as an issue for any maintenance I have done so far and I’ve had the camper on since 2015.

2. Because of the side mount to the frame on an F150, I now check the bolts for tightness before, during and after a trip. I have a ratchet with an extension and the correct socket all set up in my tool kit just for this. There is no locknut provided by Riderite which seems weird, but before adding a locknut, I decided I’d try Lock-tight (I think I used blue) and it’s never loosened again after many thousands of miles.

Ron

 

[smlobx]

Late to the game as well but as I read the original post a couple of questions immediately came to mind..

1. What is the rated capacity of the Firestone airbags? I have Airlift airbags on both of my pick ups. For the F-350 and my Hallmark camper I have a set of 5000# bags. For my Jeep Gladiator I have a set of 1000# bags.

2. Tying into the above question what is the maximum inflation rate for your bags? Mine are 50 and 35 PSI respectfully. I was thinking if yours was 35 psi that you were at the limit and with the weight (1200#) possibly over the design parameters..

 

[daverave]

The airbags are Firestone Ride-Rite 2525 with load leveling capacity up to 5,000 lbs.

The more I've thought about it I agree that removing the camper for the install would be impractical and beyond the scope of most suspension shops. They should know what the factory "true ride height" would be for the unloaded F-150.

Thanks again for everyone's input. We have yet to do anything since we are still in decompression mode from the long trip and need to attend to home maintenance issues.... like a main sewer line replacement. Damn roots took advantage of our absence!

 

[daverave]

FYI, the 2525 install instructions are here:

https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/manuals/firestone/firestone-2525-ride-rite.pdf

It says to allow 40 pounds of carrying capacity for every one pound of inflation so at 35 psi we should have been capable of carrying 1,400 pounds of load. Also it says that they can handle 100 of inflation and that 5 psi minimum should be kept in them at all times.

 

[daverave]

The red line shows where a portion of the mounting bracket failed. There were three bolts through this piece that mounts to the frame, two on the side and one on the bottom. The bracket on the still attached airbag on the opposite wheel is indicating failure at the exact same location. That tells me that this failure was not due to a sudden airbag deflation but I can’t blame Four Wheel Parts for a bad install (yet) as it appears to match the installation instructions.

 

[rubberlegs]

We are enjoying joy our Sumosprings, which are like an airbag that needs no air. Black ones.

 

[ntsqd]

The red line failure is the predictable failure assuming that there was no gusset underneath and invisible in that view.

From the very little that I know about air springs they all say not to operate the vehicle without at least a little pressure in them. That may be wrong as a blanket statement, but it is correct for the couple sets that I've been around.

If the Mechanic that said adding a leaf to the existing springs was thinking in terms of the very typical "Add-A-Leaf" leaf springs then I'd say that he is correct, but not for what seems like the obvious reason. They will help with load carrying, but they work all of the other leaves in the spring a lot, lot harder and are the reason for many OEM spring's early demise. They will make the ride uncomfortably stiff. I suspect that this was his reasoning even if that did not come thru in the conversation.

If you look up your truck on one of the several pages where I found listings for our CTD (General Spring is one that I recall) you'll find a range of weight rating listings. Or at least I did. For our 3/4 ton truck there were springs rated from 2500 lbs. to 4000 lbs. I bought the 4000 lbs springs, and then we removed the short leaves progressively until the desired ride height with the camper in the bed was achieved.

 

[JHanson]

There is no reason to remove the camper from the truck to install air bags. I've never done so on my own or other trucks and never had a failure or issues.

I'm not a fan of add-a-leafs as they tend to add stress risers in places not intended. I've seen (and personally experienced) too many failures. Some leaf spring sets (OME comes to mind) are designed to facilitate removal or addition of leaves, but aftermarket add-a-leaf kits might or might not be compatible with your existing units. A lot of them seem to be over-arched to produce impressive results, but that's what creates the stress risers.

If your camper stays on the truck all the time, the best way by far to support it is with a complete spring set designed to do so. If you remove it between trips, high-quality air bags are the only way to go in my opinion. I'm not a fan of Sumo Springs as I've found they restrict compliance.

 

[daverave]

[SIZE=12pt]And now for the next chapter in the Blown Airbag saga….[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]So we had planned to get our new airbags at someplace other than Four Wheel Parts (the original installer) as we became convinced that the install was probably the root issue with their resulting failure. We went to FWP to inform them of our dissatisfaction with the airbags and the install and the manager came out and said that they would install new Firestone Ride-rite airbags for labor costs only. That seemed somewhat reasonable (forgetting the costs we incurred in our tow and emergency removal of the blown airbag back in Colorado) so we decided it was the path of least resistance. The shop is really convenient to our house. We got scheduled two weeks later for the install while they ordered the parts.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]We had the work done yesterday and upon picking it up we were told that the mechanics thought that the new airbags required 2” rubber spacers between the airbag and the lower bracket. The service rep stated that the bracket failed due to their being not enough travel so they would have failed during extension, not compression… or something like that. And oh by the way they were charging us an extra $78 for the spacer parts. I pointed out that if they were necessary today then surely they were necessary when we first had them installed five years ago. After a bit of jawing the service rep took the additional part costs off our labor-only bill.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Now I am curious as to the validity of the need for the spacers. The back of the camper is at least a couple of inches higher than it was previously due, I assume, to the new spacers. They also inflated the bags to 45 psi when previously they had told us 35 psi was all that was needed. When we got home I reduced the pressure back down to 35 psi. (Firestone states that the user should figure 40 lbs of load-carrying for every pound of airbag inflation which should more than cover the weight of our Hawk and gear.) I am tempted to get a third party suspension shop to evaluate the new install because I’ve lost faith in FWP again. I have contacted Firestone to get their opinion on all of this but one thing they did say that typically the spacers are used on 2WD trucks, not 4WD like ours.[/SIZE]

 

[daverave]

New install with spacer. Note unlevel bag also, pinched more on inside.

 

[daverave]

I just got off the phone with a Firestone tech person. He said the install looked fairly OK to him but the only real tell is how the truck rides as to whether it is "too hard." Highly subjective obviously. He also suggested that perhaps the 2" spacer be replaced with their 1-1/4" spacer to reduce the "squish" of the air spring which also might make it appear more level.

To throw a little more fuel on this dumpster fire, he also thought it was a good idea to do the air spring install without the camper on the truck!

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Looking at your install and mine,which is on a 2002 Tundra AC Cab with ATC Bobcat.
NOT an expert. Is the upper bracket/mount upside down?
I have no spacer on my install.I did it myself using the Firestone directions.

Turned 180* and the 2" spacer wouldn't be needed.


Here is my install. These photos are about the best I can do without removing the wheel.




See how this bracket is turned.Drivers side

Passengers side

Frank

 

[Lighthawk]

The more I've thought about it I agree that removing the camper for the install would be impractical and beyond the scope of most suspension shops. They should know what the factory "true ride height" would be for the unloaded F-150.

Just a thought about determining "true height". If you have jacks you could undo the turnbuckles and lift the camper up to take a measure.

I've been talking with Timber Grove about their high quality airbags and the owner suggests measuring the center of the truck, like your receiver hitch while unloaded. I'll be plumbing two air lines, so I plan to take measurements of both wheel wells so I can balance left and right, as well as achieve level.

 

[daverave]

Looking at your install and mine,which is on a 2002 Tundra AC Cab with ATC Bobcat.
NOT an expert. Is the upper bracket/mount upside down?
I have no spacer on my install.I did it myself using the Firestone directions.

Turned 180* and the 2" spacer wouldn't be needed.

Frank

I'm pretty certain that the install, other than the spacer, conforms with the directions for my Ride-rite kit from Firestone. Every truck model will have a different configuration of air spring parts so a Tundra will be vastly different from a F-150. They tout the ability to install without any drilling through the frame so every truck will have different configurations to allow that. Thanks for reading though Frank!

 

[daverave]

Just a thought about determining "true height". If you have jacks you could undo the turnbuckles and lift the camper up to take a measure.

Unfortunately we don't have jacks but I've moved on from that particular issue.

I noticed you have Timbrens on your rig currently. We tried those first before the air springs and had a less than satisfactory ride (particularly on the local concrete causeways.)
Was the Timbren product not working for you either? And is that why you are moving on to air springs?

Dave

 

[Lighthawk]

Unfortunately we don't have jacks but I've moved on from that particular issue.

I noticed you have Timbrens on your rig currently. We tried those first before the air springs and had a less than satisfactory ride (particularly on the local concrete causeways.)
Was the Timbren product not working for you either? And is that why you are moving on to air springs?

Dave

Yes. I really liked the idea of a zero maintenance Timbren solution but am preparing to sell them and install Timber Grove ASAM bags. They are very high quality with all stainless steel construction other than the bags. I wanted to try a sway bar instead, but Hellwig doesn't have one for my truck.


I think the bags will help me level up when the camper is on the truck, and hopefully dampen side to side sway.
With luck, I'll install them this weekend, and we've got a trip in two weeks out to Benton where I can find some dirt roads to test the bags.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5175e0aae4b043d62e48f3b5/1571070941316-QQQW80SO8JCWNZA4PNR7/20191014_113344.jpg?format=1500w