Building a camper

M

marty

A Great Guy
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
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338
Location
Sacramento, California
The first camper we built took 1800 man hours to build and many many cups of coffee. I am trying to build " That perfect Camper " agin. I am not wanting to change the shape of our camper. But the options or even the layout of the inside. What options should be standard or not even options at all. I am trying to build a camper that is basic and comfortable that can still be the way the customer wants it and possibal to build. I will accept any input that i can get on this matter. Keeping in mind that i am not trying to change our product to a higher priced camper. I am asking all of the wtw forum becouse you are the people that i go to work for every day. Or closer to home make it possibal for me to do the work that i enjoy. Thank you.

Marty Austin
 
It seems that some of the most popular modifications members have done have been to design a better couch or install a dinette instead of a couch. These may be a couple of options or design changes to consider.
 
Kudos for posing such a question, marty

You'll get a myriad of answers, for sure!

Thinking back to my search....

I think someone would have a serious advantage if they were to build a "shell" model that could easily be customized...either in the factory...or later by the consumer. Probably the BIGGEST surprise for me in my search (other than seeing EVERY used model FLY out the door before I could act) was to find out that the shell model (at least the FWC is this way) at present *isn't* customizable with stock equipment...and that the infrastructure of said models isn't there to let someone make these decisions later. (elect, plumbing/drains/wiring/etc)

Like a computer...make these units "plug and play". Buy the sink/sink cabinet...uncover the porthole..bolt it in..hook up the drain..BAM..you are in biz...ditto with the stove..refrig..etc.

IMO...this would open up the purchase point of a NEW camper to folks with less $$$ on hand and would allow each owner to build their unit to suit...either upfront..or down the road (pun intended). I hear all the time "I have 6-8K to spend but I don't have 11K for a new unit"...so why not play into that market and get those folks on the road...especially in this economy? The "trickle-in" business after the sale for "options" would be serious stuff in this senario..IMO!

good luck in your quest.... and thanks again for posing the question.

mtn
 
"Modularity"

Couch module
Dinette module
Galley module
Furnace Module

...

Also (perhaps) get yourself associated with a university ME program and have them analyze the shell with FEA to uncover potential weaknesses or to enhance the structural design. You might save significant weight|cost...
 
better idea?

I think another great option would be to offer a "kit" or plans to build your own. I think that even a model with a little less material that would be cheaper to make and be lighter would have a market niche. You could call it the 2WD model. This economy has been rough on a lot of people, and finding a camper to fit my truck has been really difficult. I for one would be really interested if plans or a kit if it would be available. I am looking at simply surviving in my camper till the "good times" return. Does anyone have any ideas?
 
I had thought dual benches in the front of the camper on both sides (40-48" long) that made a dinette and folded to make a bed that runs the width of the camper a bed down below would be nice (this for fullsize rigs that are wider, not the bobcat). Then make cabinets in the rear of the camper for sink/stove, etc. Maybe put some of the utilities under the benches to keep the weight a bit forward. Not sure it that made total sense?
 
After using the camper for 2 years. Here are some of my thoughts. These are some things I want to modify on my camper.

1. Like what Ted said, design a better couch or install a dinette instead of a couch.
2. Try using lighter material for the interior cabinets.
3. Better insulation.
4. An option to have a storage for Porta Potti.
5. External mounting points for Hi-Lift, shovel, axe, Jerry cans and etc.
6. A better ladder to reach the roof instead of the fold down steps.
7. It would be nice to be retro fit some of these features to the existing campers.
8. Would be nice to have an option to add a microwave, :D. Seriously.
9. A storage behind the couch on both side of the window.


Alex
 
Hey Marty, glad to see you....

Marty,

My camper (#1062) has been great. We've loved it. I look forward to eventually ordering a Cougar shell and building the inside myself...

Unless, that is, you beat me to it! So, here are my two cents...

One: build a dinette.

It became necessary for me to retrofit a dinette in after spending a couple days with my folks and their class C. I have NO regrets: the camper is bigger, brighter, and can comfortably hold more people.

Here's a link to what I did: [thread=1677]Panther 3/4 Dinette[/thread].
Bobg333's: [thread=1339]Dinette for Grandby[/thread].
DLN's: [thread=1302]Mini Dinette for the Eagle[/thread].

FWC's dinette, while nice, is too much compromise for a guy like me (i.e. has children). I'm sure it's comfortable, but the cost of this comfort was utility: it's a 2 person dinette with limited foot room, but I can comfortably get 3 adults at mine, 4 if we use a camp stool in the aisle.

What we can't do is sleep 2 adults "downstairs". That's OK, they sleep in the tent, but when it's cold and rainy during the day, having a nice table to sit around is great.

On to the next idea...

Two: galley change.

This is more a brainstorm idea. I'd like to see the galley along the front. Alaskan camper recently did something like this: here's a link.

If you then had seating across the camper, you could have large windows on each side and the dinette could become a bed for 2 adults...

Pods8 describes similar, but I think COG ahead of the rear axle is better.


So, let me close by saying good luck in your endeavor, and keep us posted!
 
Kudos for posing such a question, marty

You'll get a myriad of answers, for sure!

Thinking back to my search....

I think someone would have a serious advantage if they were to build a "shell" model that could easily be customized...either in the factory...or later by the consumer. Probably the BIGGEST surprise for me in my search (other than seeing EVERY used model FLY out the door before I could act) was to find out that the shell model (at least the FWC is this way) at present *isn't* customizable with stock equipment...and that the infrastructure of said models isn't there to let someone make these decisions later. (elect, plumbing/drains/wiring/etc)

Like a computer...make these units "plug and play". Buy the sink/sink cabinet...uncover the porthole..bolt it in..hook up the drain..BAM..you are in biz...ditto with the stove..refrig..etc.

IMO...this would open up the purchase point of a NEW camper to folks with less $$$ on hand and would allow each owner to build their unit to suit...either upfront..or down the road (pun intended). I hear all the time "I have 6-8K to spend but I don't have 11K for a new unit"...so why not play into that market and get those folks on the road...especially in this economy? The "trickle-in" business after the sale for "options" would be serious stuff in this senario..IMO!

good luck in your quest.... and thanks again for posing the question.

mtn

Well said Mtn-high.....I am one of those folks with less $ to play with.

Paul
 
plug in kitchens

plug in type kitchens will not work. The propain systems can not have any quick release type fittings and the propain compartments must exit the walls completly. these ideas you all have posted today and i am sure in the future will not go unread and i thank you for such a rapid input. it will help us to figure out the camper that should built.
Have a great day.
Marty
 
Awesome.....I'm on my way to put to pick up the materials! I'll let you know how it's going.

Paul

Just kidding. I don't have the countless hours that would take. Not to mention, the expertise, at least I don't think I do. :eek:

Paul
 
Whew..you had me scared for a second there.

In this instance, I believe the saying "You get what you pay for" comes into play full-force!

That, and "black gold...texas tea..." LOL
 
Mounting points for external gear.

I would like a beefed up rear wall with either pre-installed mounting points for things like jerry can and spare tire carriers or a drawing showing where someone could drill and mount those things. I realize, the door would cause some restrictions. A parallelogram design which would swing the carrier and the door in the same motion would be cool.

Or, an integrated lift assist device and integrated roof top rack, so that one could put extra gear on top and be able to easily raise the top with the extra stuff still there.
 
Move the refrig

Marty,

I know this is high on the PITA scale, but since I began looking at these campers, I always wondered if it's too much of nightmare to to move the sink and stove down to where the refrigerator is now, and then move the refrigerator to the opposite side of the camper...I know this means running gas lines. electrical. etc., but then that opens more room up toward the front of camper and could even have facing seats....
 
split galley

George,
My concern with building a two sided cabinet model is that it would be much more costly to build and add about 100 or so more pounds to the dry weight of the camper behind the axel. This is a good idea and we have been trying to figure out the weight problems for a long time. I would like to be able to build a front dinette. I am contimplating getting some light gauge steel tubing and building a proto type. I would like to see if a light gauge steel frame could flex and hold together long enough to become something worthey of building. My thought here is simple. everybody can work on a light gauge steel frame. and if it is not too heavy to build i could offer a stripped down shell version for the home builder. still in the thought mode. have a nice day.
Marty
 
I've been out shopping for a newer camper, mainly because my current one is over 20 years old. Biggest things I list as criteria are:

1) cassette toilet or porta potty with space around it to actually be able to use it.

2) refrigerator, no ice box

3) at least a 2 burner stove

4) heater

5) must sleep 3 adults 6' tall and or 2 adults 6' and 3 kids 4' to 5' tall

6) lower price and options, I see way too many $10,000 to $20,000 price tags and with it comes stuff I really don't want, like the hot water tank, air conditioner, fancy woodwork, carpeted areas that don't need to be carpeted like the step areas and under the dinette. I like the idea of modular, buy a shell for $5000-6000, then add the stuff as you can afford it or need it. Some guys may not need a heater, or air conditioner, or the stove, or a sink. Making it more optionable may be a way to go.

An Ideal camper would be to me...

Shell unit with windows, bed over cab with matress, convertable dinette bed, jacks to install it, 12v led lights, and a lp tank storage. Then offer as an option the stove with cabinet, sink with cabinet, refrigerator with cabinet, toilet option (either built in or porta potty), heater, air conditioner, etc. Make it so that the person can order the basic unit, then call up and say "I need the sink and stove combo" and either have it as a screw in you do it installation or dealer installation, or a "factory upgrade" where it has to come in for install.
 
Camper Build

Good Questions Marty,

I think a lot of people expect too much from a product that is designed for off road and light weight. The trend seems to keep adding options to make the camper different from its intended purpose. I guess it depends on what you are marketing, utility or luxury.

I view my Panther as a movable tent with a few extra creature comforts.

I for one like the full size seat in my Panther. I use it to catch a nap without having to raise the top while on the road.

I replaced the factory table with two pull out tables. I raised the drawer and reduced its depth to get the space above the water tank for the sliders.
The other one went under the sink and I added a shelf in the area to increase the storage. Not ideal but saves space. If redesigning is could be made cleaner. Heavier duty drawer sliders would be nice the stock ones are pretty weak.

I would like to see the water tank moved to the front to change the weight distribution and provide a step up to the bed. Turnbuckle access might be an issue.

I would like to see an Engle fridge option that would mount low enough that the lid could be opened while the top was down. I ended up mounting my Engel 45qt in the truck cab because I couldn't find a place for it without taking out the water tank. I just couldn't get the three way to work with the way I park. Hard to find level spots in the backcountry without a lot of effort. Maybe offer a 12V 1.8 cf option in place of the 3 way.

I agree about beefing up the back wall if possible for accessories. Might be a structual problem there though. Too much weight for frame.

Screws instead of staples for the batten strips and panels.

Rigid insulation instead of fiberglass. Fabric in headliner could be something easier to clean.

I replaced the stock curtain rods with a simpler parachute cord system and the websnap retainers with velcro.

Front lift panel rod retainer too weak I replaced mine with a velcro strap.

I moved the front lift point to the rear 5" so I had a straight up lift.

Some of this may have been addressed as my Panther was #4.

I think you have a great product well designed for the purpose. Suits my camping style.

Had I not bought my camper used I would most likely gone with a shell model and built a minimal interior, though the heater and stove have come in handy, I really don't use the sink and water tank all that much.

Dsrtrat
 
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