Buying a used camper?

[Mountainrats]

My husband and I have been lurkers for awhile now on this site. We started out excited because after research we narrowed our camper wishes down to a used four wheel camper. After all wouldn't you want to try something out before spending the big bucks to buy a new one? Little did we know just how FUSTRATING it was going to become! We live in Oregon, where the camper is required to be registered, licenced and taged with Oregon DMV. Accourding to DMV we will need to have a title or MCO (Manufacture's Certificate of Origin). NO Campers we have found that meet our expectations have this paperwork! None of them! Most people think we're crazy for asking them if they have it. Answers range from I have the original sale's slip- quick call to DMV nope that won't do, to what's that? One person is trying to get the paperwork needed from the manufacture with the complete run around, he called four different times and got four differnt answers as to if the paperwork had been issued, or was available now. Someone told him they would mail it but never did. Both the seller and us have about given up on the deal. But looking for a different one even states away hasn't helped us any- NO ONE HAS THIS PAPERWORK! Needless to say, after dealing with this on over 10 used campers- what's the deal? We see that the MCO cost's more to be issued from the FWC website, and I guess most people didn't pay for it, but according to Oregon DMV it's a federal requirement for the manufacture to issue one so how can that be optional? We refuse to purchase something that could become a source of endless tickets and hassles from the police, with no way to fix it because we didn't get the paperwork. Besides, even a used camper in great shape costs a lot, and who would want to get one without the needed paperwork? It's like trying to buy a car from someone who doesn't have the title, next to no good to legally use it!

Are we the only ones having this difficulty? Did anyone find a way to get the camper registered without a title or MCO? If so we'd like to hear from you!
Thanks for listening to me vent, needed to get this out and into the community!

PS IF anyone has a Grandby or a Keystone model for sale and has the paperwork we would love to hear from you!

 

[mtn-high]

It's gotta be Oregon.

I'm not sure Colorado even knows I own an FWC. (LOL) No licensing...no registration/etc.

If I had to TOW it or it was an RV with it's own engine/etc. I'd have to go through those steps...but here...as a part of my truck/a non-motorized entity I know of no such requirements....and so far... no one has come knocking yet to tell me I owe em $$$.

I hope it works out for ya.

mtn

 

[BSS]

Perhaps 4WC can assist? I mean, since there are really no known "bootleg" four wheel campers out there, maybe the factory can issue one retroactively?

Although Oregon certainly must have some way to file for lost/replacement title. It gets complex in some states sometimes, but it's still far from rocket science.

In the unlikely event you ever get pulled over and called on this ridiculous rule, tell them it belongs to your friend from Idaho.

Or get a PO box in or friend in Nevada or CA and register the pickup truck there instead.

 

[Mountainrats]

Sadly, we don't know anyone in Idaho or Nevada to use your idea! We have property in Oregon and Washington and both states require the camper to be licensed, so no luck there. With our luck these are the only two states in the United States who require truck campers to be registered. It's a stupid law, after all the truck is already licensed and the camper doesn't even roll on the pavement, but well they didn't ask me when they made it, darn them. At this point, we are either going to buy a new one (ouch) or give up- not sure which! We are still looking but the last two I emailed about that were over 1300 miles away didn't have the paperwork either. It's the first thing I ask about now days. Tried to get the paperwork for one from Four Wheel Camper- that's where the four calls, four different answers and no paperwork sent comes in, not very helpful at all. And that camper was a 2006, so not that old respectively. We would even be willing to pay for the paperwork, but Four Wheel Camper isn't very customer friendly on the subject! One phone call even told the seller they didn't make the camper, even though it was clearly made by them. Sigh, we'll keep working on it, thanks for the replies, we appreciate it.

 

[DirtyDog]

Well if it helps at all - I've had a FWC in oregon for several years and I never registered it. Really not concerned about it either.

 

[ScottBailey]

Call the factory.

 

[Ted]

One phone call even told the seller they didn't make the camper, even though it was clearly made by them.

If the camper was older than a 2001, that may have been technically true. The current owners bought the company then.

I was hoping DD, being in Oregon, would respond. You should talk to some other camper owners and find out if that has been their experience as well. If so, your next call should be to the Oregan Highway Patrol. Essentially you are asking them if this law is enforced. But if asked in a straight forward manner like that, they would have to answer that all laws are enforced equally. So you want to explain to them the problem this law is causing you, what you have heard from current camper owners, and ask them if this is something you should be concerned about.

Good luck.

 

[momo]

I bought my Grandby in Washington last week and it came with registration papers and a licence plate ... of course, here in BC I don't need 'em ...

 

[pods8]

I'm in WA and haven't ever registered my rig, wasn't really aware there was any requirement to do so. I don't know how you can require a FWC be registered but not a regular truck topper, almost essentially the same thing.

 

[CJinCA]

Ask Oregon DMV, but I think technically a FWC doesn’t need to be registered as defined by Oregon:

A camper is a structure that:

Has a floor;
Is designed to be mounted upon a motor vehicle;
Is not permanently attached to a motor vehicle upon which it is mounted;
Is designed to provide facilities for human habitation (permanent sleeping and cooking facilities);
Is 6 feet or more in overall length;
Is 5.5 feet or more in height from floor to ceiling at any point; and
Has no more than one axle designed to support a portion of the weight of the camper.
Campers are measured from the extreme front to the extreme rear of the camper body. Any fraction of a foot in length is rounded down to the nearest foot.

A camper permanently attached to a pickup or other motorized vehicle is registered as a motor home.

My Eagle with the top lowered measures approximately 53 inches from base to the top of the roof rack which is under Oregon’s 5.5 foot (66 inches) camper height specifications. To me, that means that I wouldn't have to register my Eagle if I lived in Oregon. I don’t know what a Keystone or Grandby measures, but they may be under the 66 inch specs as well.

 

[BSS]

I think CJinCA is on to something here.

Although in that case I suppose you would also need to determine what the legal definition of "permanently affixed" is.

 

[craig333]

Pretty interesting. I don't recall ever getting anything like that and I bought mine new.

I"m still debating on whether to tell my insurance company I have one

 

[momo]

Interesting points ... I bought a Roamin Chariot pop up last year and they do NOT have to be registered or licenced in WA because they are considered more of a topper than a camper (they also attach to the bed with turnbuckles). So maybe the same would actually apply to the FWC?

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

Pretty interesting. I don't recall ever getting anything like that and I bought mine new.

I"m still debating on whether to tell my insurance company I have one



I received a "Certificate of Origin" from All Terrain when I picked my Panther up in Sacto back in early '07. The invoice for the camper says I paid a $35 documentaion fee.

So they do exist.

Not that I needed the Certificate in Nevada in '07 or in Colorado now.

 

[CJinCA]

I received a "Certificate of Origin" from All Terrain when I picked my Panther up in Sacto back in early '07. The invoice for the camper says I paid a $35 documentaion fee.

So they do exist.

Not that I needed the Certificate in Nevada in '07 or in Colorado now.


FWC issues them as well.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

I'm not exactly sure what camper this is, but I have an idea.

When our used campers are floating around out there and start getting sold to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th owners it gets harder to help with creating a duplicate MSO's to just anyone that calls in.

We cannot verify that they are the original owner.

The camper could be salvaged or stolen, so we really would not want to create a duplicate MSO for a possible thief.

I don't handle the MSO (Manufacturers Statement of Origin) stuff here in the office, but all new campers are issued this from the factory when sold new.

It is up to the original owner of the camper to hang on to it and use it for sales transfers or DMV registration.

If the 2nd buyer drops the ball and doesn't get it, then the 3rd buyer drops the ball, and then the 4th owner tries to get a duplicate, it makes it very hard to create a duplicate.

Just like any car, boat, trailer, etc. the guy you are buying the camper from should be able to fill out and sign a lost title statement at the DMV and get the camper registered from that point.

A hassle ? Yes.

Sometimes needed ? Yes.

Will any DMV clerk at the window be able or willing to help you ? NO.

You will have to find a DMV person that will work with you.

If you are referring to the camper by (Ron) ? the serial number wasn't in the system for some reason. I tried to look it up in the files in the back office, but didn't see it there either not knowing the exact year. But going off of memory he is the 3rd owner. The serial number he gave me dates back to similar serials we used back in 2002, so if they are calling it a 2006, it might not be the same camper or they have their years wrong. If I could see pictures of the camper I could probably tell you about what year it was manufactured.

The problem is ... who knows what the other owners told the guy you are buying it from. They might have told him it was a 2006, but it was really a 2003.

I tried to help as much as I can.

Most of our customers that live in WA and OR never register the camper through the DMV.

Are you / they supposed to ... YES.

It is up to the buyer to do that.

Here is California we are not tied into the DMV for truck camper sales, at least not yet, and I hope it stays that way. It will just mean more cost and hassles for all owners of truck camper if this ever happens.

Used campers are brought in to, and sold to Oregon customers all the time without too much hassle.

These buyers usually need to work with the system (silly state departments), instead of against them.

Play the dumb DMV games and get them / find them / create the papers they want.

Like you said, 9 out of every 10 used pop-up trucks campers you see out there (any brand) will never have an MSO with it when sold used.

If you find a used Starcraft, Northstar, Palomino, Sunlight, etc, etc, etc, call their factory and try and get a duplicated MSO sent to you over the phone. They probably can't do it either.



I wish I had the magic answer for you.

I feel & understand your frustrations.








.

 

[BenG]

Went thru the same hassle when I got a used 1986 Keystone, bought it from second owner, he had the original paper work for camper from origanl owner but it had never been registered, again here in Washinton state it has to be registored, just another way to get into your pocket. I hassled with department of liscenseing for a week or better, till I found right person, had to take it to state patrol for inspection they asigned it new ID number then I was able to register it into my name, but with a "questoinble title", meaning I didnt get tilte for three year, still can sell camper like that and transfer to new owner if I wanted to sell it. Yes I quess I could have run without plate on it , but talked to stater, He said he would not pull me over for it just for that but if he did a ticket would follow, so better save than sorry

 

[readydan]

I have a Roamin Chariot in Washington State as well. Does not have license plate now - got it with a Bill of Sale. Still deciding whether to license or not. Probably could get away with not licensing for a long time- except would not want to have a "$ surprise".

For what it is worth to anybody - Below is what I found on the Internet from the Revised Code of Washington (RCW) - (the law as written) and the Washington Adminstrative Code - (WAC) (the rules used to implement the laws). Sort of long. Note that this is about motor vehicles, mounting, lodging, and dimensions. Nothing about water or electrical systems, etc. This could apply to many brands or set ups.

RCW 46.04.085 - Camper. "Camper" means a structure designed to be mounted upon a motor vehicle which provides facilities for human habitation or for temporary outdoor or recreational lodging and which is five feet or more in overall length and five feet or more in height from its floor to its ceiling when fully extended, but shall not include motor homes as defined in RCW 46.04.30




WAC 308-96A-099

Agency filings affecting this section​

Use class descriptions.

(1) Why does the department assign use classes to vehicles?
The department assigns use classes to:
(a) Charge the proper license fees and taxes for vehicles;
(b) Assign special brands on subsequent owner's certificate of ownership;
(c) Apply certain restrictions on the use of the vehicles, which prints on the vehicle registrations;
(d) Assign the proper license plates, tabs or decals.
(2) Under what authority does the department assign use classes to vehicles?
The department assigns use classes under the authority of RCW 46.16.040.
(3) What use classes does the department assign and when do they apply?
The use classes the department assigns are described below:










[SIZE=8pt]ABBREVIATION[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]TRANSLATION[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]DESCRIPTION[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]CAB[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]TAXI CAB[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Motor vehicle used for carrying passengers between two points for compensation for an on-demand trip rather than a scheduled route. A vehicle with this use class may not carry any luggage or commodities that do not belong to a passenger being carried at the same time. In other words, the vehicle cannot just carry cargo between two points.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]C/G[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]CONVERTER GEAR[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Vehicle is an axle that is used to convert a semi-trailer to a full trailer. Converter gear is titled but not licensed.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]CMB[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]COMBINATION[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Vehicle is either (1) a power unit with a declared gross weight of 42,000 pounds or more and tows a trailer; or (2) a trailing unit with permanent plates. The trailer may be towed only by a power unit with a CMB, or FCB use class.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]CMP[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]CAMPER[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Is a slide-in pickup camper (not a canopy) as defined in RCW 46.04.085. Even if the owner has chosen to permanently attach the camper to the pickup, the units need to be titled and licensed separately.[/SIZE]

 

[Fallbrook]

Good grief. Come on folks, no LEO would ever waste his time on this, especially in light of the height issue that is specifically addressed in the letter of the law ten or so posts ago. It's so gray it's not worth anyone's time, unless you're running drugs or doing something to get the FBI involved. No kidding, Oregon and Washington don't have people watching satellite imagery in real time to catch you. As with most stuff in life, as long as you aren't being a jerk, you'll be fine. That said, do what Stan "suggested" and get the job done if you're the paranoid type with nothing better to do than worry about silly outdated laws. Let's use the gray stuff up top, find an owner with an MSO (mine is awfully pretty) and modify it, present it to your DMV, and be done. If it's stolen, you'll get caught and hopefully rot in hell, it's too small of a world and we all get told in these forums when one goes AWOL. Alternatively, those states must have a process for a lost title/MSO, just follow the instructions and get it done. Lastly, here's the rub. Four Wheel Camper may have done a lot of the construction. A bunch. However, they delivered to owner one a product that was clearly under construction. Owner whomever sold it, and YOU have elected to finish up a product (you should paint the underside pink or something) and go on record as the builder that really completed construction of the unit. Hence, it's homemade. This isn't rocket surgery...

 

[Mic]

Washington DOES require a license plate on the camper!!! When I picked mine up all the paper work was ready and I had no issues getting a license...mounted the plate on the back door!