Craig. Sounds like an awesome trip you have planned! Like Hal, our goal is Tuk , but that was our goal last year too. And it's looking like its not happening again this year. Our camper has been sitting in our garage since Aug 2019 when we got back from our Nfld/Lab trip.
Canada border
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DavidGraves
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There now seems to be some movement on opening the US/Canada border with both governments in discussion about what goals need to be met in order for reopening to proceed.
Good news all around.
DG
Good news all around.
DG
Jack
Senior Member
Afton canyon is here:KarenP3 said:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Afton+Canyon+Campground/@35.0389798,-116.6629865,10z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c5a93a25f7eec7:0xc9d4b36439820b3d!8m2!3d35.0388681!4d-116.382825?hl=en
But there aremuch more interesting areas in the Mohave. Afton canyon was our first foray into the Mohave and our response was "what's the big deal". A few years later, we tried other spots and have been going back for the past 20 odd years. If you don't have a CA Benchmark map, get one.
ckent323
Senior Member
Does access to Afton Canyon depend on the Canadian Border opening? 
Never mind I know where it is, having been there.
Back on topic there is some indication that Canada may decide to open its border to vacinated travellers.
"...Canadian Governmnet considering easing border restrictions after 75% of Canadians had at least one shot and 20% were fully vaccinated – a milestone that the government expects to reach by June 21.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/destinations/2021/06/08/border-us-canada-update-reopen-nonessential-travelers-june-21-22/7611474002/
However, there is rising concern in the US (and elsewhere) about the Covid variant from India that is now spreading rapidly in the UK. What will it take to get people to wear masks in public and get vaccinated so this virus will die down because it doesn't have enough new hosts to mutate in rather that spreading in a new wave and causing causing more deaths?
https://news.yahoo.com/fauci-warns-of-covid-19-delta-variant-now-spreading-rapidly-in-uk-we-cannot-let-that-happen-in-the-united-states-181611374.html
Never mind I know where it is, having been there.
Back on topic there is some indication that Canada may decide to open its border to vacinated travellers.
"...Canadian Governmnet considering easing border restrictions after 75% of Canadians had at least one shot and 20% were fully vaccinated – a milestone that the government expects to reach by June 21.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/destinations/2021/06/08/border-us-canada-update-reopen-nonessential-travelers-june-21-22/7611474002/
However, there is rising concern in the US (and elsewhere) about the Covid variant from India that is now spreading rapidly in the UK. What will it take to get people to wear masks in public and get vaccinated so this virus will die down because it doesn't have enough new hosts to mutate in rather that spreading in a new wave and causing causing more deaths?
https://news.yahoo.com/fauci-warns-of-covid-19-delta-variant-now-spreading-rapidly-in-uk-we-cannot-let-that-happen-in-the-united-states-181611374.html
Seen today on Canada's border reopening
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canadian-reopen-border-phases-starting-with-vaccinated-citizens-source-2021-06-09/
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canadian-reopen-border-phases-starting-with-vaccinated-citizens-source-2021-06-09/
I am not holding my breath, yet. I DO hope we can visit Utah this fall, but right now inter-provincial (cross-state) travel is still restricted, and in some provinces, travel inside the province is restricted too. Vaccinations % is catching up to the USA, and we need to agree on some kind of vaccine passport/protocol (and the effect of variants/infection rates) before travel can be predictably allowed. I for one can't afford to quarantine when I cross a border, and won't until our respective Border Agencies/Health Dept's and politicians figure this out.
It's slow in coming but with a lot of countries getting high vax %s
I look for travel to loosen up soon.
My daughter in Barcelona will get her shot next week.
Higher vax rates are starting to be the norm.
Frank
I look for travel to loosen up soon.
My daughter in Barcelona will get her shot next week.
Higher vax rates are starting to be the norm.
Frank
smlobx
Lost again
Posted this am on the WSJ. The Canadian government is considering opening the border mid August (for vaccinated travelers of course).
https://www.wsj.com/articles/canada-eyes-reopening-border-to-u-s-tourists-in-mid-august-11626405580?st=osy8hw5im59pb27&reflink=article_copyURL_share
https://www.wsj.com/articles/canada-eyes-reopening-border-to-u-s-tourists-in-mid-august-11626405580?st=osy8hw5im59pb27&reflink=article_copyURL_share
ckent323
Senior Member
The Canadian Border is reopening to non-essential travelers on Aug 9.
"On August 9, 2021, at 12:01 a.m. EDT, fully vaccinated citizens and permanent residents of the United States (U.S.), currently residing in the U.S., will be permitted to enter Canada for discretionary (non-essential) travel," Canada said in a statement.
Vaccination must be complete 14 days prior to entry.
Unfortunately, it may be too late for us to change our Northbound ferry reservations to disembark at Haines instead of Whittier without a significant change fee (TBD). But now we can drive back through Canada insted of taking the ferry back.
"On August 9, 2021, at 12:01 a.m. EDT, fully vaccinated citizens and permanent residents of the United States (U.S.), currently residing in the U.S., will be permitted to enter Canada for discretionary (non-essential) travel," Canada said in a statement.
Vaccination must be complete 14 days prior to entry.
Unfortunately, it may be too late for us to change our Northbound ferry reservations to disembark at Haines instead of Whittier without a significant change fee (TBD). But now we can drive back through Canada insted of taking the ferry back.
This is great news from Canada!
It seems that vaccine requirements will be the standard at least for the next few years, not just for Canada but for most countries. Much or Europe has a vaccine requirement, once Australian/NZ open up for international travel they will almost certainly have a vaccine requirement. Another option seems to be to allow some travel from unvaccinated people, but with a significant quarantine and testing requirement which is the case in much of central/south America and other areas where vaccine availability is an ongoing issue.
How long these restrictions will last is anyone guess, but once the requirement is in place, I can't see it be relaxed soon, particularly as the number of people who would have issues with requirement continues to decrease.
It seems that vaccine requirements will be the standard at least for the next few years, not just for Canada but for most countries. Much or Europe has a vaccine requirement, once Australian/NZ open up for international travel they will almost certainly have a vaccine requirement. Another option seems to be to allow some travel from unvaccinated people, but with a significant quarantine and testing requirement which is the case in much of central/south America and other areas where vaccine availability is an ongoing issue.
How long these restrictions will last is anyone guess, but once the requirement is in place, I can't see it be relaxed soon, particularly as the number of people who would have issues with requirement continues to decrease.
Rando,
What did you mean by "...particularly as the number of people who would have issues with requirement continues to decrease."?
FYI...vaccination from Canada to USA not required...negative test or anti-body/antigen in lieu of...
I still am waiting for someone in power to state what measurement or criteria will be used to resume normal travel without any COVID related restrictions. What is the end game?
"Outgoing travel to the United StatesTraveling from Canada to the United States
COVID-19 testing requirements
Test type
Unvaccinated visitors from Canada must present a negative RT-PCR (NAAT) or Antigen (quick-test) test taken 72 hours before departing to the United States.
Fully vaccinated visitors with approved vaccination certificates do not need to present a negative COVID-19 test.
Details and exceptions
Children under the age of 2 are exempt from presenting a COVID-19 test.
Quarantine requirements
Visitors from Canada are not required to quarantine after entering the United States.
Details and exceptions
Travelers are recommended to quarantine between 7-10 days after arrival in the United States. Travelers are recommended to take a COVID-19 test 3-5 days after arriving in the USA. If the test is negative, it is recommended that travelers quarantine for 7 days."
What did you mean by "...particularly as the number of people who would have issues with requirement continues to decrease."?
FYI...vaccination from Canada to USA not required...negative test or anti-body/antigen in lieu of...
I still am waiting for someone in power to state what measurement or criteria will be used to resume normal travel without any COVID related restrictions. What is the end game?
"Outgoing travel to the United StatesTraveling from Canada to the United States
COVID-19 testing requirements
Test type
Unvaccinated visitors from Canada must present a negative RT-PCR (NAAT) or Antigen (quick-test) test taken 72 hours before departing to the United States.
Fully vaccinated visitors with approved vaccination certificates do not need to present a negative COVID-19 test.
Details and exceptions
Children under the age of 2 are exempt from presenting a COVID-19 test.
Quarantine requirements
Visitors from Canada are not required to quarantine after entering the United States.
Details and exceptions
Travelers are recommended to quarantine between 7-10 days after arrival in the United States. Travelers are recommended to take a COVID-19 test 3-5 days after arriving in the USA. If the test is negative, it is recommended that travelers quarantine for 7 days."
ckent323
Senior Member
I don't get the anti-vaccine stuff. Mandatory vaccines virtually eliminated Polio and SmallPox. I do understand if there is a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated (known allergy to the ingrediants for example).
The data from tracking millions of people shows that the risk of complications from the Covid vaccines are thousands of times lower than the risk of complication from getting Covid-19.
Further, the breakthrough rate for Covid infection in those vaccinated is 0.003%. That is a tiny number and the number of serious complications from breakthrough infections is even tinier.
The published risk of complications if a person contracts Covid, based on tracking millions of cases, is in the range of 16% (0.16). That amounts to 160,000 people per million infected.
Out of every million doses given of the mRNA vaccines, overall about 2.5 to 11.1 severe allergic reactions to an ingredient called polyethylene glycol will happen so an avg about 4.5 per million (a ratio of 0.0000045 or 0.00045%) .
Doing the math (hopefully I did this correctly) 0.16 vs 0.0000045 is 0.16/0.0000045 = 35,555.555 times more likely to get Covid complications than get vaccine compications.
Even if I am off by an order of magnitude getting vaccinated is a no brainer.
The data from tracking millions of people shows that the risk of complications from the Covid vaccines are thousands of times lower than the risk of complication from getting Covid-19.
Further, the breakthrough rate for Covid infection in those vaccinated is 0.003%. That is a tiny number and the number of serious complications from breakthrough infections is even tinier.
The published risk of complications if a person contracts Covid, based on tracking millions of cases, is in the range of 16% (0.16). That amounts to 160,000 people per million infected.
Out of every million doses given of the mRNA vaccines, overall about 2.5 to 11.1 severe allergic reactions to an ingredient called polyethylene glycol will happen so an avg about 4.5 per million (a ratio of 0.0000045 or 0.00045%) .
Doing the math (hopefully I did this correctly) 0.16 vs 0.0000045 is 0.16/0.0000045 = 35,555.555 times more likely to get Covid complications than get vaccine compications.
Even if I am off by an order of magnitude getting vaccinated is a no brainer.
As global vaccination rates increase, then vaccine requirements are less of an impediment to travel.
I don't think anyone knows how long the requirements may last, but if I had to guess it will be for at least a few years, particularly if new and more virulent strains continue to emerge. This is seems to be the most effective tool to prevent the (global) spread of new variants of the disease. I am pretty surprised (and disappointed) that the US hasn't adopted a similar policy. Maybe if they had, the delta variant would not be hitting so hard right now.
If you use prior experience, it may be come a near permanent requirement like Yellow Fever vaccination in much of Africa.
I don't think anyone knows how long the requirements may last, but if I had to guess it will be for at least a few years, particularly if new and more virulent strains continue to emerge. This is seems to be the most effective tool to prevent the (global) spread of new variants of the disease. I am pretty surprised (and disappointed) that the US hasn't adopted a similar policy. Maybe if they had, the delta variant would not be hitting so hard right now.
If you use prior experience, it may be come a near permanent requirement like Yellow Fever vaccination in much of Africa.
Wallowa said:
Not questioning if the COVID vaccination is effective; not "anti-vaccination" at all, your choice....just questioning when will mandatory vaccinations for COVID 19 end.
We can comb through the numbers and derive a multitude of pictures but when will the vaccinations not be required.
That is a simple question. Delta et al....until when? New strains of virus, that is a given, that is what viruses do, but that involves a re-do of everyone getting vaccinated again and again.
What is the end game? When will required vaccinations end? No polemics, when will it end?
We can comb through the numbers and derive a multitude of pictures but when will the vaccinations not be required.
That is a simple question. Delta et al....until when? New strains of virus, that is a given, that is what viruses do, but that involves a re-do of everyone getting vaccinated again and again.
What is the end game? When will required vaccinations end? No polemics, when will it end?
Unfortunately, it is not a question that anyone can answer. We can speculate, but that is about it.Wallowa said:
One thing that is likely true - the higher the vaccination rate, the sooner the restrictions can end (for a whole variety of reasons).
ckent323
Senior Member
Sadly, vaccinations for Covid-19 are not mandatory in the US and that is allowing a rapid spead of newer more infectious variants which are impacting the younger population at a higher rate than the previous strains. The rate of hospitalization and death are on the increase again.
Canada has done a very good job so far in minimizing the spread of the Covid variants. Other Countries are locking down again because they reopened too soon or relaxed manadatory PPE measures too soon.
This pandemic is far from over and until the number of new infections consistently trends downward and drops below somewhere around 1,000 new cases a day I expect to see restrictions remain in place.
The current average number of new infections per day in the US is 32,300 vs 368 in Canada. Canada has 10 times fewer infections per day. They certainly don't want to risk letting in unvaccinated people from countries (such as the US) which are experiencing rapily increasing rates of infections in the unvaccinated population.
Importantly (and sadly) the average number of new cases in the US has increased every day since the low on June 22 of 11,300 cases per day, whereas in Canada the average number of new cases oer day has been decreasing everyday since April 12. I strongly suspect Canada will close the borders again (appropriaytely) if the number of infections starts to rise again.
So the answer to the question of "when will mandatory vaccinations for COVID 19 end" is no one knows and it depends on the rate of new infections.
Canada has done a very good job so far in minimizing the spread of the Covid variants. Other Countries are locking down again because they reopened too soon or relaxed manadatory PPE measures too soon.
This pandemic is far from over and until the number of new infections consistently trends downward and drops below somewhere around 1,000 new cases a day I expect to see restrictions remain in place.
The current average number of new infections per day in the US is 32,300 vs 368 in Canada. Canada has 10 times fewer infections per day. They certainly don't want to risk letting in unvaccinated people from countries (such as the US) which are experiencing rapily increasing rates of infections in the unvaccinated population.
Importantly (and sadly) the average number of new cases in the US has increased every day since the low on June 22 of 11,300 cases per day, whereas in Canada the average number of new cases oer day has been decreasing everyday since April 12. I strongly suspect Canada will close the borders again (appropriaytely) if the number of infections starts to rise again.
So the answer to the question of "when will mandatory vaccinations for COVID 19 end" is no one knows and it depends on the rate of new infections.
Did not mean to stir a pandemic of views on the severity or consequences of vaccination vs no vaccination...
There obviously is not an end point established for future enforced vaccinations for COVID-19 and an endless array of variants that will follow.
So be it....
Out Here
There obviously is not an end point established for future enforced vaccinations for COVID-19 and an endless array of variants that will follow.
So be it....
Out Here
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