Canyon de Chelly

[busboy66]

This last September on the recommendation of a friend, I left Moab UT to go see the Canyon de Chelly National Monument NE, Arizona. I cannot fully express my disappointment. I have travelled through most of AZ on past trips, so I'm fully acquainted with being on Navajo and other tribal lands.

The drive to the monument was depressing. The constant presence of garbage on each side of the road was in a word, incredible. Empty beer boxes, cans, broken bottles, garbage in bags, car parts etc etc. If there was ever a 5 foot break in the stream of litter I never saw it.

As I approached the monument off Hwy. 191, places like Many Farms and Chinle, it got worse. In Chinle, garbage piles were still burning on front yards. I hoped it would improve inside the monument. It didn't.

I was extolled on the virtues of the unique relationship between the NPS and the Navajo Nation. Namely how the "Navajo people, who are connected to a landscape of great historical and spiritual significance." There are several Navajo farms inside the Canyon de Chelly.

The garbage continued inside the monument. I saw locals driving on restricted parts of the lookouts. Each lookout had several Navajo trinket tables which visitors would have to navigate through to get to the viewpoint. Some Navajo entrepreneurs actually had blankets at the lookouts selling their wares. They were not passive - it appeared they were approaching each group of visitors.

NPS staff didn't seem to venture far from the visitor center. The garbage I saw was not new, so there didn't appear to be an effort to either stop the litter or clean it up.

I have been to more than a few National Monuments, and the care and respect given them by NPS and visitors alike has always impressed me. What gives?

I'm looking for something here. Did I just go on a bad day/mont/year? Have you been there? What are your thoughts? Was it better, worse? Has it improved/degraded recently?


Thanks

 

[Overland Hadley]

I had the same experience at the N.M. a couple years ago. Even the people working at the visitor center were rude.

I do not mind the people selling hand made items. I have bought from some of the kinder people selling quality items. But I do get bothered by the (often drunk) beggars.

This spring I had a downright scary experience buying gas. They held my credit card and then would not turn on the pump. I could not get gas or leave and there were a few people hanging around that were up to no good. I am a big guy and can take care of myself, but this was one of the rare times I felt worried about my (and my traveling partners) safety. I was shook up for a while after.

I do take it all with a grain of salt, I feel it is our government that turned a once strong and proud people into what they are today.

 

[Barko1]

Sadly New Mexico is probably the dirtiest state in the union Not only on the reservations, which of course are some of the poorest communities in our country, but throughout much of the state. The culture doesn't seem to have many internal rules about throwing crap out windows or just letting it pile up. You could write dissertations about the reasons, poverty, despair, etc certainly they are cultural factors involved. Louisiana is another really dirty state and I moved from there to Minnesota where all the nations OCD cleaners must migrate to, the culture there is different in regards to trash and litter although there are Northern Hillbillies that live in squalor as well. Here the desert is a popular dumping ground. In a way I have gotten used to it, don't see it as much, but it also is one reason I contemplate moving. The reservations in Eastern Arizona are the same, and again non reservation lands here in the South are often trashed as well. And NM is thick with graffiti as well It is an interesting state with a complicated history, about the largest minority majority in the nation, years of political corruption (most recently Bill Richardson), and simmering anger between different ethnic groups. One NM hero/legend, Juan De Onate, ordered one foot of each adult male in the Acoma Pueblo cut off. My daughter went to Onate High School, the Pueblo residents are not big fans. I just came back from the Four Corners and through Many Farms and on that trip was reading a Larry McMurty book called "Roads". He spoke of his discomfort traveling through some of that same territory. Only cleaner spots are the casinos.

 

[busboy66]

Thanks for the responses.

Overland Hadley, we too had a bit of a scare at the gas station in Many Farms. A Navajo lady damn near came into the cab of my truck begging for money. She wouldn't leave after we declined. My girlfriend was rattled, and the experience put my guard up.

I thought about contacting the National Monument folks about the "experience", but I was afraid of coming off as racist. Where I live we have a lot of First Nations folks (their term) and I definitely have my own opinions about their way of life. I understand the plight of the Navajo, what poverty can do to a sense of self worth, but a National Monument should be about preserving culture, not perpetuating stereotypes.

Barko1, I appreciate your comments. You eloquently put everything into context for me.Thanks.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

It is sad how "people" who love the land so much can be the most destructive.Doesn't make me want to visit there,but that said I have heard others talk about how wonderful the NM was.That was years ago so may be things have gotten worse.I haven't been to de Chelly but to other places mainly around Tuba City and they seemed to be cleaner.But that to was years ago also.Still it's sad.Don't know why people can't Pack it Out.We try to ,even in places where there are litter containers.We talked to an Alaskan on our trip to Denali this Sept. and he told of his town Elfin Cove in the Glacier Bay area.Where lodge owners have moved in from the "outside"and left just piles of trash and had no respect for the area.Oh well we just have to do our part.

Frank

 

[Darryla]

Thats interesting. I saw the same type of trash way down in Mexico many years ago. Now that I read the above comments, I feel better about what I did a few years ago. We were on a road trip around the Western US. We had left Deadwood SD and headed south as it was late September and looking very cold to the North. Anyway, I figured I needed to head South before it started to snow. We were driving through an Indian area and I felt so uncomfortable driving through (trash cans burning in the middle of the road, all sorts of strange type people hanging out), I drove all night to Denver, CO.

Although, we did go down into New Mexico and part of Arizona and things were ok. I was actually looking to buy some stuff, but couldn't really find too much and the Indians at the Monument / Canyon area we were at were very nice. One even took a moment to explain in English what they were talking about in some sort of Indian language. But, many years ago I camped on a Reservation in AZ and the facilities were completely disgusting. I guess its where you are at. Things seem so poor all over the area.

About what I saw in SD, it just looked like a product of what the white man may have done without thinking of the result "as usual it appears sometimes", sorry. I'm not really a liberal, but some of our fore fathers have done some things in our past that arn't so nice.

Its like this protest thing going on now in our major cities, we are living in very interesting times now. Who knows what is right? I am not one of them, but it makes you think.

Darryl

 

[highz]

It's been four years since I was last at Canyon de Chelly, and I had a good experience. I don't even recall seeing vendors at the lookout points, and it was during the tourist season. Maybe I was just there at a lucky time?

Certainly, there are parts of New Mexico and Arizona that are trashed. Poverty, lack of good education, frustration with lack of opportunity, a culture of violence and a rampant drug problem all go hand-in-hand, and it's not just on the rez, and not just in the Southwest. There truly are many beautiful places to travel and visit here. If there weren't, I'd be planning to move when I retire.

I live close to the Mescalero Apache rez, and there is some poverty, but frankly, their casino really seems to have helped the Mescalero economy. They also have a thriving trout fishery, hunting and logging operations. They seem to be in better overall shape than many of the Diné (Navajo) towns. I drive through the Mescalero lands often, and although I don't feel welcome there, I also don't feel threatened. I think the difference is primarily economic.

 

[Barko1]

High Z I agree, the Mescalero area is cleaner than NW NM. Shiprock is always depressing to me, bad housing, trash, and the young male unemployment rate is, I am guessing, near 50% in places. Solutions are difficult, education would seem to be a way out, and is for a small number but it is extremely difficult for a kid from the Navajo/Zuni/whichever reservation to leave their home and culture, move a few hundred miles to a strange anglo/hispanic culture, and make a good go of it. Years ago I was at a university in Minnesota and we were giving special ACT's to young students from the Sioux reservation, trying to ease the process, but they all quite after a half hour. Hard to overcome, hopeful that there will be better ways out.

 

[highz]

Good point, Barko. I think you're spot on that it's not just about creating economic opportunities, but that they also have to mesh with the native culture and be available locally.

It's only fair to mention that there's a rural meth subculture in my neck of the woods that is predominantly Anglo. There are a couple of properties in the area that I wouldn't want to be caught trespassing on. Fortunately, it's a small minority here (so far). Poverty, lack of education and a culture of violence is a big part of that problem, too.

 

[ktn00000]

There are a lot worse reservations than the Navajo Nation. That aside, Canon de Chelly is fairly spectacular. Chaco Canyon and Hovenweep are also in the area and are just as, or more, spectacular. Very few places will cause you to scratch your head and wonder as Chaco Canyon will.

 

[Foy]

Returning from western Montana in July 2010, I dropped my wife at the airport in Bozeman (she needed to be at work quickly) and turned towards our North Carolina home solo. I'd decided to take the US 212 shortcut to reconnect to I-90 at Belle Fourche, SD, so I needed to exit at Crow Agency, MT, where the Little Bighorn National Battlefield exit is.

But I was fooling around with my CD player and took a Crow Agency exit a short distance before US 212. I quickly realized my error but assumed I could get through town to US 212 with no hassle. I was wrong.

It was the stroke of 5pm on a Friday in late July, and the streets at the 4-way stop a couple of blocks east of the exit were wall-to-wall with locals, all native Americans. My old diesel was rattling away as I navigated the street and the intersection, drawing glances, then stares, from the locals, and it was obvious I "wasn't from around there". Literally dozens of people looked at me, clearly out of place. It was "if looks could kill" X 100. I quickly decided to consult my Benchmark atlas somewhere other than downtown Crow Agency, MT and scooted out of town to the east. As I'd expected, the exit route I'd chosen lead right over to US 212 within a few miles.

About an hour later, after driving through a couple of garbage-strewn communities, I encountered another 4-way stop in Lame Deer, MT, noted as the capital of the Northern Cheyenne Nation. The cross street was "Main Street" and again, dozens of people were milling around, and at least a dozen were literally on the sidewalk or street, passed out. I again beat a hasty exit to the east.

I was so stunned and demoralized by what I saw that it still bothers me today, nearly 18 months later. I've suggested to several posters on another forum that they take care to drive through there on a road trip, as it's something we from back East just need to see.

I agree with others here that the situations I saw are not the natural tendencies of any decent people. Instead, the lifestyles I saw were created by decades of poor policy decisions made by our Federal, State, and local governments. Paternalism has never worked as a method to help those in need, and it's never going to. All it does is to encourage and enable bad behavior and to feed a bureaucracy which naturally orients itself towards self-perpetuation at the expense of the very groups they're supposed to be helping. End of editorial.

What I saw that day sure makes me think ahead as I look at maps and plan on various WTW routes. I have zero interest in finding myself in those situations again.

Foy

 

[ktn00000]

O si yo

Full disclosure: I am a member of a tribe and though I live states away from our nation; my parents still live on the nation.

I was just in Crow Agency this September; again no where near the worse of the reservations. Overall I would say the Ute, Jicarilla Apache, Crow, Shoshone and Najavo are in the upper half of nations. Much much worse is out there. Not only is it something most people in the east do not encounter it is also something most people everywhere unfortunately romanticize with no first hand experience. Consequently they are shocked when confronted by reality.

Too much Hollywood.

Every tribe made a choice about which way to go and how they would deal with the situation they all were eventually confronted with. Tribes made different decisions and generations later there are different outcomes. I do not know that paternalism had much to do with it and certainly the bureaucracy is a disaster but the most significant factor was the leadership of the tribes themselves. There is a lot of federal cash rolling into these tribes, some tribes spend it very wisely and some are blatantly corrupt. The degree to which this is so becomes very apparent when you are on the nation.

How the Federal money is spent is determined by the tribe itself. Most tribes cut stipend checks to their members on a monthly basis hence there is little incentive to do anything else but collect a tribal check. In my opinion this is corroding to the character and future and after generations of this most of the people engaged have no clue about how to do anything else.

The tribe I belong to sends no checks to members of the tribe. The Federal money is spent on additional health care, elder care, running the multiple tribal hospitals, a quality independent education system, and infrastructure such as water systems. Our tribe decided in the 1820's that the only way to long term survival was to become Americans. By the end of the 1820's we had a written constitution, an elected legislature, an elected Chief, written laws, a tribal census for electoral districts, a district appeals and supreme court system, and compulsory education. By 1851 we had a college. My parents went to that college, my grandmother went there, my great great uncle graduated from it in 1861 and became the only Indian to serve as a Medical Officer in the Civil War (after he completed medical school in 1863).

The outcome was that now, in 2011, when you enter our nation you will not know you are doing so unless you read the sign. Housing, education, income, crime, and every other quality of life statistic you can come up with is no different between my tribe and the non-tribal people who live around it and on it. We do have marginally higher rates of diabetes and alcoholism, but marginally so. Not devastatingly so. I have never seen someone passed out on the sidewalk or begging on our nation. We would be embarrassed and someone would immediately do something about it if it were to happen. Not who we are.

I also remind my daughter of how many of her ancestors sacrificed so much for her to have the opportunities she has in her life (she is in high school).

I think the story is that not all Indians and all nations will make you feel so uncomfortable to be among them. At the same time, there are much much worse reservations than the one's listed in this thread. Much worse.

The real tragedy is that so few people will ever be aware of just what it is like on many of these nations.

As much as I am not a fan of the Federal governments ability to do anything well and they have perhaps never done anything as badly for so long as they have dealt with Indians; the real culpability rests on the tribal leadership. Throwing more money at corrupt leadership will only produce better funded corruption.

All THAT being said, I have been to Canon de Chelly and marveled at it. I have also been to Bosque Redondo (check it out if you are not familiar with it). I have spent a lot of time on the Navajo nation and never felt uncomfortable. However my wife, who is not Indian at all, has felt uncomfortable there. I think it is just an unpleasant shock for many people who had a different perception. My wife has never felt uncomfortable on my nation.


Wa do

p.s. if you can figure out the greeting and ending of this you will know what my nation is...

 

[busboy66]

ktn00000,

Thanks for your frank commentary.

Tom

 

[DirtyDog]

I appreciate your thoughts on the subject ktn.

 

[ktn00000]

It is unfortunate that the state of affairs there distracted you from the actual canon. I rode horses into Canon de Chelly with my daughter and it was a great day; great place to be.

 

[highz]

Cherokee Nation?

Oh, and welcome to Wander the West, ktn!

 

[ktn00000]

Yes, Cherokee...

and thanks for the welcome! It is good to be here...

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

ktn, I'm pretty sure you are Cherokee. I'm also pretty sure your people have practiced "to turn the cheek, to offer the cloak, to walk the mile" about as well as any people ever could.

 

[ktn00000]

We just took a different path that wasn't always direct and smooth. My great great great great great great grandparents and their family and peers had a lot of moral courage that I am thankful for.

However, I do want people to appreciate Canon de Chelly because it is, I think, a very cool place. Things of importance happened there plus the natural beauty.

 

[mitch h]

ktn, I'm sure you are right.It is too bad that more of the younger generation will not stepup and try to change things. We are from Indiana and took our first trip west in sept. Went to Canyon De Chelly. Really enjoyed it.Great place for a short hike. Did not see trash everywhere. Did see poorer places , but we have that here too. Went to the Navajo pow-wow in Window Rock.A good culture lesson. Enjoyed that also, never did feel uncomfortable. Like you said there is much worse places I should'nt be. Never know ,maybe it could change. Mitch