Carrying a motorcycle on the back of the truck with a FWC, the numbers.

[idahoron]

I have been curious for some time about loading my motorcycle on the back of my truck. I have had all the stuff to do it I just never had time. Yesterday I had the time so I got it done.
My truck is a 05 Tundra DC with D rated tires and Firestone air bags, the air bags were set at 25 pounds. The camper is the base package and loaded for hunting. I only had 3/4 of a tank of gas so that would affect the weight as well. The scale measured in 20 pound increments. The square tube was too short. The handle bar hit the camper. I had a step that I bought for the camper that was rated for use as a hitch extender so I used it. In all it is a little loose, so I used a ratchet strap to tighten the slop in the hitch.

From what the numbers are I am 679 pounds over weight from what it says in the door. It rode okay but I don't think I would want to carry it much like this it is a little creepy. The service manager at Toyota said I would be fine but I worry about it a little. But here are the numbers.

My truck weighs 5200 empty
the camper empty is 1280 pounds.
Loaded and ready for camping my truck weighs 6700
front axle loaded is 3100
rear axle is 3680

Now with the camper and Motorcycle. The Motorcycle is a xr250l and it weighs 280 pounds like it is.

Total weight 7300 pounds.
Front Axle 2900
Back Axle 4420

 

[Espresso]

You also have to consider how far the motorcycle weight is to the rear of the axle. I'm conservative when it comes to the amount of weight on my truck, but I'd be nervous driving on a windy road, let alone what would happen on the highway if you had to make an emergency maneuver.

 

[Foy]

I'm always interested in the subject of GVWR. I've been involved in forum discussions (maybe here on WTW--I don't recall exactly where) where "running heavy" is concerned. The discussion usually focuses on how aftermarket springs and/or air bags can provide adequate support for truck campers and how drivability, etc, works out.

The issue I'm most interested in, however, is legal liability. I wonder how much my liability carrier, or somebody else's carrier, may focus on my actual running weight in the event of a wreck. I have nightmare-ish thoughts of an insurer seeing that I was running heavy and giving me the heave-ho on covering a claim.

This is entirely relevant to my current set-up. My truck is a "one ton", an F350 single rear wheel. So that means "the sky is the limit" or nearly so, right? Wrong. My GVWR is 9,900 lbs. The wet but empty weight of the vehicle is around 7,400 lbs (long bed, Crew Cab, 4WD, and diesel engine all add up to mondo weight). That leaves me, if I understand legally rated limits correctly, with a grand total of 2,500 lbs worth of fuel, passengers, and gear before I'm "running heavy". The fiberglass topper and my normal array of stuff ("junk", according to The Missus--who does not appreciate the potential value of a 4-ton come-along, 50' of logging chain, a chain saw, etc, etc, etc) brings my weight up to 8,400 lbs BEFORE I add coolers, fishing and camping gear, and the like.

So, does that strike a nerve with you, idahoron, or anybody else who runs a truck camper? Does anybody have any real-world experience with outcomes related to running heavy, being in a wreck, and having an insurer or a plaintiff's lawyer question the legality of the rig?

Foy

 

[Ted]

Our first truck/camper was a Hawk on a 2000 Tundra. It rode well and always took us where we wanted to go. but we did go through two sets of rear axle bearings. Not being a home mechanic, that cost us a pretty penny. The tundra was remodeled between 2000 and 2005, so the bearings may be a better design on yours. But the added weight that far behind the rear axle would cause me concern.

 

[idahoron]

I agree, that far back has me a little worried.

 

[Ace!]

Foy, based on my experience, it is not a concern; however, you may have a different experience and insurance is state specific (whew, is that a legal disclaimer ).

A liability claim would be paid and then your carrier would drop your coverage on that vehicle in that configuration. As liability is a third party coverage, you paid the premium, so the insurance carrier would be on the hook. If your liability exceeded your coverage limits you would be on the hook for that portion of the claim or lawsuit, but that would happen anyway. Once they paid the claim though, they would likely "red flag" that policy and it would not be re-written as it wouldn't meet the definition of an insured vehicle (or some other definition or fraud clause).

Edited to add: as an aside, a number of insurance policies defined an insured vehicle (paraphrasing here) as a personal vehicle with a GVWR of less than 10,000. So, at least until fairly recently, F250s were insurable and F350 were not (unless you bought the F350 with the 9.9k or 10k package, whatever they call it...which Ford offers on F350 trucks). No underwriters or insurance carriers realized (or cared) that truck manufacturers were manufacturing their trucks with GVWR of over 10k lbs and that the policy language was out of date. An astute (or so I'll call him) insurance professional brought this to the attention of a manager of a well known insurance claims office. He was advised it doesn't make a bit of difference, that everyone knows an F350 can be a personal "insured vehicle" and that there was no reason to make a big deal about it. Whether the language was ever updated, I'll probably never know, but I do know that vehicle weight did not impact paying liability claims.

 

[idahoron]

Thanks ACE!. I am more worried about the stress on the truck than the stress on the insurance. The only time I could see my self using this in this configuration I would be loading it up going to the hills and then ride. I doubt I would drive more than 100 miles one way loaded like this. But I am still worried about it.

 

[100acrehuphalump]

Hey Ron, I just saw someone with the same basic setup of a hawk on a 1/2 ton and a motorcycle on the back although it was closer to the camper. It did seem a bit back heavy though. I not sure if they had airbags or what..It was at the east expo last week and I was working, and was unable to study it more. Hi everyone

 

[Ace!]

I get it Ron, I was just responding to Foy's concern. I anticipate doing what you're doing, but have a F250. Your picture does look further back than I expected and I understand your concern.

 

[takesiteasy]

With your weight distribution maybe consider putting the bike on the front? But it seems like the numbers don't add up. If the bike weighs 270 lbs why does it add 600 lbs to the rig? I'm probably reading it wrong.

 

[Happyjax]

I have been looking at doing this when I get my rig. I have seen a swing out motorcycle carrier that stays closer to the bed of the truck and swings so you can get in. Don't know how well it works but looked cool. I'm not sure where I saw it but will try to find the site

 

[jackattack]

Why not a small inexpensive trailer? Certainly worth the cost of reducing the wear and risk of damage to your truck and camper.

 

[billharr]

Why not a small inexpensive trailer? Certainly worth the cost of reducing the wear and risk of damage to your truck and camper.

+1 I have seen bikes on the hitch carriers really moving around. That is a lot of weight on a long 2" sq tube. You can pick up a small single rail trailer for not much more than a hitch mount.

 

[Advmoto18]

A couple of issues regarding the motorcycle come to mind and I've been toteing motorcycles for the better part of 47 years.

The primary issue I have with idahoron's setup is the distance the ceter of mass is located from the aft end of the receiver.

I do not know Toyota's receiver weight numbers, but, the receiver's max tongue weight must be reduced by 1/3 for every 12" the center of mass is located aft of the end of the receiver. And that weight includes the motorcycle and the carrier.

While it may be camera optics poviding a bit of an illusion, it does appear the carrier has some downward deflection in the 4th photograph.

7300# is WAY over GVWR. You would need some serious suspension upgrades to carry that load. Further, what will that weight do to the frame during torrsional twisiting?

Another number to consider is GCVW. While this number is primarily for towing a conventional trailer, the number will give you an idea of the capability of the braking system. Exceed this number and all bets are off stopping your truck in a predictable distance.

While "over wieght" police aren't lurking behind billboards waiting for you to come along...be involved in an accident with the weights posted above will likely cause you problems. Read the fine print of your auto insurance policy. I'd bet dollars to donuts there is an indeminity clause in your policy releasing your carrier if you fail to operate the vehicle wihtin manufacturer's specifications. In other words, you could be driving without and insurance safety net.

 

[idahoron]

I have a trailer that I us almost all the time for ATV's and pontoon boats. So putting it on a trailer is what I would most likely do. This "test" was to document what the weights would be and how far back it would need to go to make it "work".
Like I said before this is not likely something I would do but since I had all the components I would just document it for guys that were thinking about doing this.
I would also say that 7300 pounds is 679 pounds over weight for the truck.

 

[Advmoto18]

What is the GVWR posted on the driver's door jam?

My neighbor's 2004 Access Cab Tundra is placarded at 6200#. I would expect your truck to weigh more since it is the crew cab thereby reducing payload.

His reciever's tongue weight is listed as 500#. A center of mass 12" aft of the receiver would limit tongue wieght to 330#. Your motorcycle and a VersaHaul with ramp is 362# and the center of mass is slightly more than 12" aft of the end of the receiver.

Using my neighbor's placard (likely conservative for your truck), I have your "ready for camping weight" 500# over placarded weight. Add in the motorcycle and VersaHaul (280#/82#), I have you 862# over placard weight of 6200#. Nearly 14% over the placard weight of an access cab.

While it is nice to weigh your truck and know the numbers, be mindful that the placard is controlling unless you have your operating weights certified (not the same as having your truck weighed on "certified" scales). However, manufacturer specifications trump all for judication.

IMHO, use the trailer!

 

[Ace!]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but want to know if anyone has read policy language that releases a carrier from paying a liability claim for a vehicle out of spec. If so, can you please post the language and policy information (carrier, policy booklet date, etc.). I have worked for the largest insurer of motorcycles and two of the largest insurers of personal vehicles (cars, trucks) and have never seen that language in any of the policies I've had access to, including competing companies when dealing with claim settlements. Again, I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just want to see the language (more of a curiosity for me). I'm not talking about language about the use of the vehicle, not language about using the vehicle for racing or closed course competition.

Another piece of this, liability stems from negligence. It doesn't absolve a company from paying, in fact, you have to be (should be) negligent for your insurance to pay a liability claim.

 

[Advmoto18]

No worries on calling me out Ace!

Specifically stated in my USAA policy.

When I added my FWC Hawk to my truck policy, USAA wanted to know the camper's placard weight. The underwriter ran the numbers for my truck. Once he was satisfied I was operating within Ford's specifications, they issued the policy. He also stated the need to remain within payload limits for the policy to remain in effect and brought the language in my policy to my attention.

Edited...
Liability for loss of other's property and medical payments is covered. But any loss to my property is expressly denied if operating outside manufacturer design specifications. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Ace!]

Thanks. It is very difficult for an insurance carrier to get out of paying a liability claim, since they have the contract with the insured (1st party), not the 3rd party, so that makes sense to me.

 

[Taku]

A friend in Salt Lake welded up a hitch rack that has two different hard points to the hitch frame as well as tie points going up to the camper brackets. He has hauled a KTM 650 many miles across the west with no problems. Runs airbags and a Palamino on a 3/4 ton. If I get a chance will take some photos. i am building a similar setup this winter.