Composite lift panel material?

E

el-cid

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So, after shopping for a number of years, and despite not even owning a truck right now, I bought a Four Wheel Hawk (built in June 1985) a couple of weeks ago from the original owner's son. I even got the original owner's manual and warranty paperwork for the heater.

Overall it's not in too bad shape, but both the front and rear lift panels are absolutely shot and need replacement. Now, being a cheapskate I'm going to rebuild the lift panels myself and, thanks to the fine folks in this forum, I know what I'm in for. The final questions is: what material to use? Obviously 1/4" birch plywood will work, but I'm curious about what the composite material is that's used for the new lift panels. If I'm going to go through the work of rebuilding this camper I want it to last (though 27 years on the original panels is almost unbelievable). Any suggestions? Thanks!
 
So, after shopping for a number of years, and despite not even owning a truck right now, I bought a Four Wheel Hawk (built in June 1985) a couple of weeks ago from the original owner's son. I even got the original owner's manual and warranty paperwork for the heater.

Overall it's not in too bad shape, but both the front and rear lift panels are absolutely shot and need replacement. Now, being a cheapskate I'm going to rebuild the lift panels myself and, thanks to the fine folks in this forum, I know what I'm in for. The final questions is: what material to use? Obviously 1/4" birch plywood will work, but I'm curious about what the composite material is that's used for the new lift panels. If I'm going to go through the work of rebuilding this camper I want it to last (though 27 years on the original panels is almost unbelievable). Any suggestions? Thanks!


You might have a talk to Marty at All terrain Campers he could also give you some pointers to this less than easy replacement.
Frank
 
I have the new composite lift panels in my camper, and I am not sure what the product is that they are using. I have wondered what it is, because it is a very sturdy and strong product and I would like to use it myself.

If you do use a plywood I would use the good stuff, Baltic Birch.
 
Thanks for the replies; I'll give Marty a call or drop him a line. Funny, my other window open right now is your TARDIS thread on ExPo, Overland Hadley! I'm (re)reading it.
 
Any suggestions?


I've never seen the composite panels that the factory is now using so I cannot say what their material is. In the boat building world there are panels made to specifically replace plywood in specific uses and you can contact the manufacturers to see if your use fits. One is called Coosa board (sorry, you'll have to search down the contact info) and you might consider the bluewater series. The other is calle Thermo-lite board by a company called SpaceAge Synthetics Ltd.; consider tough or supreme from their line.

If you do get some of either I would like to see your opinion of working with it.
 
If you're comfortable laminating and using resin/fiberglass, you could very easily turn a piece of thin (1/8th inch) plywood into a very rigid lift panel. One layer on each side of 8-10 oz fiberglass or, if you're feeling spendy/fancy, include a layer of carbon fiber cloth in the lamination...

Cheers,
West
 
el-cid said:
. . . The final questions is: what material to use? Obviously 1/4" birch plywood will work, but I'm curious about what the composite material is that's used for the new lift panels . . .
Click to expand...
1/4" plywood will not work with the original hinges. See PokyBro's build post #64: http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/12116-new-build-1981-grandby-to-become-a-hawk/page-7 The original panels were ~.150 in. thick.

I rebuilt my lift panel with 1/4" ply by using an offset hinge. The big advantage was that I was able to use machine screws and weld nuts to assemble. Probably would try something different if I had to do it over; there are a number of intriguing options in threads here.

jim
 
I used ACM, aluminum composite material. My son uses it at the commercial glass company he works at. I think sign companies use it also. If you have any of those type businesses near by, check them out. They may have scrap pieces you could by. That's how I got mine.
 
boogieman said:
im considering sheet abs, anyone try it? it comes in 4x8 sheets 3/16" and 1/4"...
Click to expand...
ABS by itself is not a structural material. It is brittle and tends to break sharp.

Simple would be 1/8" aluminum sheet. It may have other issues in the application, but it will hold the weight and is easy to procure.
 
shellback said:
I used ACM, aluminum composite material. My son uses it at the commercial glass company he works at. I think sign companies use it also. If you have any of those type businesses near by, check them out. They may have scrap pieces you could by. That's how I got mine.
Click to expand...
Would love to see pictures of the ACM and hear how it's holding up. This sounds fairly promising, but I' a bit concerned about the stresses at the rivets. I think the problem with all of these methods is the local stresses at the rivet to panel interface. with the ACM i worry about the foam deteriorating and the aluminum buckling, but maybe the aluminum is thick enough that it doesn't matter. Otherwise I might consider putting a strip of solid aluminum at the edge of the panel kinda like this:
aluminum-honeycomb-panels-edge-enclosure.jpg



Next question I have though is, did we ever figure out what FWC uses? Would something like this work?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/48-in-x-8-ft-Embossed-White-Fiberglass-Reinforced-Plastic-FRP-Wall-Panel/1000174771


It's only 0.090" thick and i think i saw that the plywood ones are 0.150?" I think there might be thicker options from non-big box stores. Anybody used that or have any thoughts on the subject?
 
Stopped into a sign shop yesterday and they had a product called di-bond which is likely the same ACM material mentioned above. I don't think it would need the edge treatment i mentioned above and I think it would be really cool. I'm even thinking of getting it printed on with a nice landscape of some mountains and then have the inboard lift panel cut to the shape of the mountains and have the sky or sunset printed on the outboard panel...could be cool.

In the interest of getting this done and going camping though, i might get the smooth frp panels and laminate two together since they are 0.075" I just put a caliper on my lift panels and they measure ~0.160"
 
Got a quote on the ACM...$420, i think actually OEM panels might be cheaper than that, especially considering I would have to do the fab and assembly work.

Anyone know what panels cost from the factory?
 
WillTheThri11 said:
Got a quote on the ACM...$420, i think actually OEM panels might be cheaper than that, especially considering I would have to do the fab and assembly work.

Anyone know what panels cost from the factory?
Click to expand...
$450 from the factory.
 
Desertboater said:
If you're comfortable laminating and using resin/fiberglass, you could very easily turn a piece of thin (1/8th inch) plywood into a very rigid lift panel. One layer on each side of 8-10 oz fiberglass or, if you're feeling spendy/fancy, include a layer of carbon fiber cloth in the lamination...

Cheers,
West
Click to expand...
This is a great plan! All materials can be purchased at the big box home stores. This also would be the most cost effective method. Minimal tools and skills involved on a project like this. Good luck on your project.
Wayne
 
WjColdWater said:
This is a great plan! All materials can be purchased at the big box home stores. This also would be the most cost effective method. Minimal tools and skills involved on a project like this. Good luck on your project.
Wayne
Click to expand...
Not sure I agree. the existing panels are~0.160" thick. laminating glass on each side of 0.125" ply may come in thicker at which point it may not work with the hinges. I kinda think epoxying two 0.075" panels may be a better choice.
 
I looked into it back in January as I was working on this post in the OK Ladies thread. I never did determine exactly what Thermo-Lite Board layup FWC uses, i.e., whether the Tough-Lite, Tough, or Supreme layup. There are also multiple finishes and it appears FWC orders the Elephant Skin finish (finishes are shown here)

I also remember seeing a post in a fishing or boating forum that said there's a remnants bin at the factory in Fargo but what are the chances of finding the right layup, thickness, finish, and quantity (and of course it still has to be shipped).

This post says you can order from the factory. There's also a dealer network but I'd think that would only come into play if you happen to have one near you.

.
 
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