Couldn't stop going down hill in snow.

[wicked1]

Hi everyone,
I had a scary incident today. I just got my camper this September, so not a lot of experience. FWC Fleet on a Tacoma. I am 45 and a good driver with all sorts of vehicles, so I am somewhat experienced driving in general.

I was going down a steep hill, slowly rolling down, then all of a sudden my ABS starts going and I speed up! Foot down as far as it will go, and I could not stop. I think my ABS kicked on prematurely and made things worse. But, not sure. I chose to keep my foot down on the brakes, and just 'ski' down the hill. The truck remained perfectly straight and in control other than the fact I could not stop. If someone was stopped in front of me, though, that would have been a serious problem.

Tires are KO2's with plenty of tread remaining. About 3 inches of snow.


Do I have any options in this situation?

I do actually have an ABS/Stability assist kill switch because of a different issue modified tacomas have, so I could have turned off my ABS. But who knows. Skidding sideways off the road would have been worse than what happened.

 

[AWG_Pics]

Scary yes. I hate that feeling of no control. Steep hill and snow -- could have happened to anybody with almost any rig. Seems like you did the right thing. Studded tires or chains could have made a difference, as would being in 4 Lo. I have gone down similar hills at about 1 or 2 mph. Sill can be hair-raising though.

In situations like that I sometimes wait for someone else to go down ahead of me to see how it goes for them. If they lose control, I will find another way off the darn hill.

 

[ski3pin]

Welcome to the world of snow and downhills. Your ABS worked. The road down to our house is like this, an "E Ticket" ride. I know right when to let off the brakes, turn to the left, coast, and center the truck between two big ponderosas, and then safely into the garage. Neighbors below us took out two trees yesterday. Winter.

 

[Sleddog]

I once lived several miles up a forest service road on Ogden Mountain in Montana. Every year a mountain lion hunter or two would slide off the road in a section that was sloped a little too steeply towards the downhill side. Studded snow tires were sufficient most of the time, studded chains on all 4 tires when it was icy. I never had any trouble.

 

[wicked1]

Heh, thanks for the replies guys.

About 4Lo, I know 4lo in this truck disables the stability assist and ABS. So, if ABS really initiated my 'slide' by starting to pulse my brakes when it wasn't needed, I would have been better off in 4lo. And I really don't think I was sliding before ABS kicked in. Not positive, though. I certainly didn't notice it.
Otherwise, the ABS did keep the truck pointed forward. I even had to go around a corner while I was in this unable to slow down or stop state.

Edit to say, if I was really sliding, like you guys mentioned, I guess better grip, chains would be my only option. Or maybe those tire socks. I'm in MO where this isn't usually an issue. But, the road I was on is going to be my new neighborhood.. I bought some land there. So, I might need chains just to get out of my neighborhood. Good to know.

-I guess I'm mostly surprised I need more traction than these KO2's give me in the snow. I kind of expected to have no issues in snow with these tires. But again.. Good to know.

 

[DanoT]

If the brakes are not stopping the truck then maybe downshifting the transmission would help.

 

[Vic Harder]

I'd try real snow tires before chains. Alternately, I developed/practiced stepping on the brake (or using handbrake on RWD vehicles), slipping the transmission into reverse (can be done with standards too) and letting go of the brakes while goosing the throttle. This has prevented a few accidents for me so far.

The unnerving part of this is that the vehicle steers like you are backing up even though you are still moving forwards!

 

[Taku]

Don't mistake "snow" for ice. Depending on the temperature and what the base is under the snow, you might be driving more on an ice/water layer than what you are thinking of as snow. Ice/water transition is what lubricates skis - which is one reason why very cold snow is so sticky. well studded tires or better yet, chains are the best choice under those conditions. Or go get a job driving a log truck in the winter and you can really learn how to drive steep, twisty icy roads in the winter!

 

[Sleddog]

-I guess I'm mostly surprised I need more traction than these KO2's give me in the snow. I kind of expected to have no issues in snow with these tires. But again.. Good to know.

Dedicated snow tires use a softer rubber compound, siping, and tread patterns that really improve the grip on snow, studs come in handy on ice. The KO2s may be snowflake rated, but they are not nearly as good as a dedicated snow tire. Here in the mountains of Idaho I run studded snow tires on my truck/camper all winter and switch to all terrain tires for summer. My all terrains are snowflake rated but do not compare in performance with the snow tires. Look into some dedicated winter tires, with or without studs, you won't regret getting some after that experience sliding downhill. I would only mess with chains if the snow tires didn't quite cut it.

Here is an article doing comparison testing on the stopping and starting ability of a few different tires. We have a winter tire testing outfit that works nearby, they say the Blizzaks are the best. I use Les Schwab snow tires and have been happy with them, I believe they were cheaper than Blizzaks but still get the job done.

https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2016/03/winter-tire-test-some-treads-are-better-than-others.html

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

We are using non studded Cooper Evolution winter tires on the Subaru, and studded Les Schwab winter tires on the Ranger.

We had slushy conditions right after getting the Evolutions, and they felt squirrelly, but now that winter is really here, they are excellent. For the driveway slush, I found that a higher gear and slower speed worked well.

The Les Schwab tires on the Ranger work nicely. I don’t like studded tires because of highway damage and road noise, but for here they seem appropriate. We try to minimize the number of trips with the Ranger.

 

[DavidGraves]

Howdy

Before you overthink it go back there today or tomorrow and walk the hill.

Find out the actual conditions under all the white stuff.

Gravity wins every time on ice.....

the only instinct I might have had would have been to try and steer to shoulder edge looking for some traction in an unpacked edge of the road or trail.

Glad you and your rig are okay but no need to go on a buying spree thinking you can avoid all issues while driving.

David Graves

PS Wifes' car is a '16 Tacoma OffRoad TRD with the electro crap and it often takes the driving away from us.

 

[wicked1]

PS Wifes' car is a '16 Tacoma OffRoad TRD with the electro crap and it often takes the driving away from us.

Yeah, that's why I have the stability kill switch I mentioned in the first post. Just driving on a curvy road sets the stability assist off in a way that could cause an accident! It basically slams on the brakes when I'm going around a corner, causing me to slide forward when I was under control. Common issue with lifted Tacomas, apparently.
So I already don't trust the electronic driving systems in this truck. Which is why I'm left wondering, was I really sliding and ABS saved me? Or did ABS almost kill me... again....

 

[ski3pin]

wicked1, from the varied responses here, you should see there is no silver bullet. As you'll come to learn,snow and ice is very different one storm to another and also can change throughout the day. Experience will teach you how to handle the conditions you encounter. Do not get in a hurry to change tires, etc.

In the meantime, drive slow and with caution.

In regards to my earlier post about the road down to our house. The only real solution for us is to keep the road clear and clean.

 

[JaSAn]

I learned to drive on 21st ave w in Duluth, Mn (~20º slope). If you are truly sliding (no traction) there is little you can do. If your tires are rotating you have a little bit of steerage. If they are locked, steering can imitate a spin. If you use the accelerator, the torque force vector of the axle will initiate a spin (left for forward, right for reverse).
Studs help on ice, but if you are sliding on compacted snow above 10ºF chains are the your only hope.

P.S. we had neither true winter tires or ABS back in the 60's and I drove a stick.

 

[rando]

Yeah, that's why I have the stability kill switch I mentioned in the first post. Just driving on a curvy road sets the stability assist off in a way that could cause an accident! It basically slams on the brakes when I'm going around a corner, causing me to slide forward when I was under control. Common issue with lifted Tacomas, apparently.
So I already don't trust the electronic driving systems in this truck. Which is why I'm left wondering, was I really sliding and ABS saved me? Or did ABS almost kill me... again....

The ABS will only kick in if it detects that a wheel that should have been turning is not turning, so in this case you must have locked up at least one of your wheels, so ABS did its thing. Pretty sure the 3rd gen Tacoma has 4 channel ABS so it will only pulse the brake that is locked. The fact that you could still control the vehicle under the conditions is a testament to how well ABS works.

To echo what others have said, the BFGs are not really snow tires and are even worse on ice. I have them on my Tacoma/FWC but have real snow tires on the daily driver Prius. Unless there is enough snow that ground clearance is an issue, the 2WD Prius with Michelin X-Ices outperforms the 4WD Tacoma in most cases. In terms of safety, stoping is often the most important aspect, and four wheel drive doesn't really help you there whereas snow tires and ABS will.

 

[Bigfoot Dave]

JaSAn was darn near a next door neighbor. I grew up in Superior Wi and now live at the top of the Duluth hills. They are steep and I find that if I do as others have mentioned and put the truck in neutral it removes the "push" from the engine idle and adds controll in icy conditions when trying to stop or go down a steep hill. We have one of those at the cabin with a slight super to the low side. Unless the snow bank is high it's a long way down over the edge.
Enjoy the pucker factor while you can, Bigfoot Dave

 

[smlobx]

Wicked you did not mention feeling the brake pedal pulsing when you were going down the hill. If the ABS was engaged you should feel the brake pedal pulsing. If it didn’t then you may have an issue with the modulator or something similar.
Our car club teaches a teen survival driving school and one of the exercises is to get the student in a situation where they have to brake as hard as possible and feel the brake pulsing so that they won’t be surprised when it happens on the open road. This is done in a large parking lot with cones set up in a safe environment. Several times the kids find out that the car they drove and thought had ABS didn’t have a working system...

 

[ntsqd]

I once launched a Suburban a couple feet into the air because the ABS kicked on. When I finally got it stopped I unplugged the ABS computer. The truck was working just fine and we were under control prior to it's interference. Sold the truck with it unplugged and advised the buyer to plug it in at his peril. Either I am driving the truck, or it is driving the truck, but we are not BOTH driving the truck. YMMV....

 

[goinoregon]

glad you are ok. when i started the post, my thought was to use 4wlo, and creep down the hill. i have a gmc std, and not aware that 4lo disables the abs. but will check. it seems odd that your vehicle in 4lo, disables abs - as they are 2 totally different systems.

 

[Kolockum]

glad you are ok. when i started the post, my thought was to use 4wlo, and creep down the hill. i have a gmc std, and not aware that 4lo disables the abs. but will check. it seems odd that your vehicle in 4lo, disables abs - as they are 2 totally different systems.

Most trucks disable the ABS when you are in 4-Lo. You don't want ABS to kick in when you are in the process of trying to crawl over an obstacle.