DC/DC Charger - Questions RE: SD Hawk

[TheDudeMan]

Greetings,
I'm looking to change up the charging of my dual AGMs in my newer Hawk.

I already have heavier wire pulled from the engine bay to the bed. I'll swap to Lithium batteries down the road, but it's not a priority for me now. The DC/DC charging is though, because winters here in the PacNW provide limited opportunity for solar charging. Given most of my trips involve 3-4+ hours of driving/day, charging while in motion is important to me.

Couple of questions -

I've been looking at the Orion 20a model. How have folks mounted it in a side dinette Hawk? Understand many go single lithium + DCDC, but has anyone done similar with dual AGMs? Is there a good spot to mount the Orion in that configuration? Do you have to worry about heat?

Was also potentially thinking about mounting it on the exterior of the camper in a "sheltered" spot, but don't think this is workable because the Orion is only IP43.

The RedArc BCDC is fully weatherproof, but brings me to my next question: Does the bluetooth connectivity get me much beyond configurability? I have a BMV-712 & 100/20 solar controller already... curious if there are any "better together" perks to staying with Victron.

Appreciate any insights.

 

[Jon R]

I have a front dinette, 200 ah of LiFePO and Victron 30 amp chargers. My opinion is 30 amp solar and dc to dc chargers is about the right fit for typical furnace plus fridge plus lights and gadgets loads. It allows 2 hours of driving to give you another day’s worth of energy, and allows 400 plus watts (about the limit based on roof area) of solar panels if you choose to install them.

That said, I have all Victron and, while i really like the Bluetooth connectivity and quality of the equipment, there does not seem to be a critical advantage to going all Victron - it just allows the use of a single app and uniformity of presentation in the controls. The monitor, solar charger, and dc to dc charger operate as completely separate units.

I have a front dinette so I can’t offer a good location, but I would definitely stick with interior mounting if at all possible even if that meant 6 to 8 feet away from the battery.

So, bottom line, I really like my all Victron setup but there is no “ya gotta do it this way” reason.

 

[heinphoto]

We have the 12/12-30A Orion "Smart" DC/DC charger in our side-dinette Grandby with 2-6V AGMs. That charger can generate a lot of heat, so you do need to be careful where you mount it. Victron recommends that it be mounted vertically with air space for circulation around it.

In our Grandby, it is installed in a hidden spot located under the space between the front of the main cabinet and the front wall of the camper. This is also where some of the electrical and water lines from the water tank are routed. On the Grandby there is an additonal ~18" space in this area, so I'm not sure if this would work with the Hawk where the cabinet is almost flush with the front wall.



The "Smart" designation of this charger is a little misleading if you compare it to the capabilities of the SmartSolar MPPT controllers. It really only allows you to configure the charger via Bluetooth using the VictronConnect app. It doesn't have the advanced monitoring/logging capabilities of the SmartSolar controller and can't participate in the VE.Smart Network to coordinate charging. It also doesn't have temperature compensation, which can be a bit of a problem when you are also using a temp-compensated MPPT controller since they will be targeting different absoroption and float voltages - especially during hot/cold times of year. Victron has hinted there will be an enhanced version of the Orion with these capabilities released at some point, but they haven't given a timeline.

-Scott

 

[Vic Harder]

If you are looking to maximize the charge you get while driving, And are still on AGM batteries, why use a DCDC at all? You say you upgraded the wiring, to what AWG? I have 2 AWG in my rig, and when I still had AGM and the Blue Sea ML7622 separator, I could see 90A at times. The 220AH dual 6v batteries charged nicely with that setup.

 

[Vic Harder]

I added a 75cfm 12v squirrel fan to the cabinet my DCDC is in. Only runs when it gets hot, 55*C is the thermistor i used to trigger it. It is a very loud fan, but when I’m in the truck driving, who cares?

 

[TheDudeMan]

I have a front dinette, 200 ah of LiFePO and Victron 30 amp chargers. My opinion is 30 amp solar and dc to dc chargers is about the right fit for typical furnace plus fridge plus lights and gadgets loads. It allows 2 hours of driving to give you another day’s worth of energy, and allows 400 plus watts (about the limit based on roof area) of solar panels if you choose to install them.

That said, I have all Victron and, while i really like the Bluetooth connectivity and quality of the equipment, there does not seem to be a critical advantage to going all Victron - it just allows the use of a single app and uniformity of presentation in the controls. The monitor, solar charger, and dc to dc charger operate as completely separate units.

I have a front dinette so I can’t offer a good location, but I would definitely stick with interior mounting if at all possible even if that meant 6 to 8 feet away from the battery.

So, bottom line, I really like my all Victron setup but there is no “ya gotta do it this way” reason.

Yeah, was leaning towards interior unless I go RedArc. I was actually looking at a spot in the interior of my cabinets, and then it's only 4-5 ft over to the battery and could away with 6AWG I think.

We have the 12/12-30A Orion "Smart" DC/DC charger in our side-dinette Grandby with 2-6V AGMs. That charger can generate a lot of heat, so you do need to be careful where you mount it. Victron recommends that it be mounted vertically with air space for circulation around it.

In our Grandby, it is installed in a hidden spot located under the space between the front of the main cabinet and the front wall of the camper. This is also where some of the electrical and water lines from the water tank are routed. On the Grandby there is an additonal ~18" space in this area, so I'm not sure if this would work with the Hawk where the cabinet is almost flush with the front wall.

DCDC Charger Install location-1440.jpg

The "Smart" designation of this charger is a little misleading if you compare it to the capabilities of the SmartSolar MPPT controllers. It really only allows you to configure the charger via Bluetooth using the VictronConnect app. It doesn't have the advanced monitoring/logging capabilities of the SmartSolar controller and can't participate in the VE.Smart Network to coordinate charging. It also doesn't have temperature compensation, which can be a bit of a problem when you are also using a temp-compensated MPPT controller since they will be targeting different absoroption and float voltages - especially during hot/cold times of year. Victron has hinted there will be an enhanced version of the Orion with these capabilities released at some point, but they haven't given a timeline.

-Scott

Appreciate the confirmation. I like the integration between the BMV+MPPT now, but to your point, not sure that aside from battery temp there is much value for them to bring.

Also looking in a similar area - I don't have that extra space on the Hawk, but I think there is a spot with enough clearance inside the cabinet. It just dawned on me I could also probably install a small 12v fan to help provide circulation while driving

As much as I loved the RedArc in my last right, I think I'll stick with the Victron if I can figure out the mounting. I appreciate having the Victron app over the 3 LEDs on the RedArc.

 

[Wallowa]

Dude...2016 Hawk, side dinette, 100ah BB heated, 12/12 Orion 30a [#4 wire] mounted inside battery box on front wall of Hawk oppposite the battery...since battery temp is monitored [712] and everything is BlueTooth controlled I can check on battery box/battery temps and so far the DC/DC has not generated enough heat to increase the battery temp; nor has the exterior of the cabinet felt hot...only vent is the FWC small wired vent in the battery box....

But boy does the DC/DC top off the BB battery once motor is started! 30 amps initially and then decreases according to profile ...

Note: I use a Battery Tender on my Tundra AGM battery and if I don't open the DC/DC breaker on the firewall when using the Tender it will initialize the DC/DC circuit and eventually put my BB battery into a float stage...which over time on a Li battery is not a good idea...

 

[TheDudeMan]

If you are looking to maximize the charge you get while driving, And are still on AGM batteries, why use a DCDC at all? You say you upgraded the wiring, to what AWG? I have 2 AWG in my rig, and when I still had AGM and the Blue Sea ML7622 separator, I could see 90A at times. The 220AH dual 6v batteries charged nicely with that setup.

6 AWG back to the bed, factory from the camper plug to ACR. I see ~15amps into the battery with engine running via the BMV, but that's not consistent at all.

I'm moving to a DC/DC to (1) isolate the battery systems - I've never trusted the ACR and I don't like the idea of my solar/shore power directly interacting with electrical on my truck (2) provide optimized charging for my current AGMs to maximize their life.

 

[TheDudeMan]

I added a 75cfm 12v squirrel fan to the cabinet my DCDC is in. Only runs when it gets hot, 55*C is the thermistor i used to trigger it. It is a very loud fan, but when I’m in the truck driving, who cares?

Good call on the thermal activation. I like that it alleviates the "forgot to flip a switch" hazard. Agree, if done right, I'll never hear it running... because I'll be driving the truck.

 

[kmcintyre]

If you are looking to maximize the charge you get while driving, And are still on AGM batteries, why use a DCDC at all? You say you upgraded the wiring, to what AWG? I have 2 AWG in my rig, and when I still had AGM and the Blue Sea ML7622 separator, I could see 90A at times. The 220AH dual 6v batteries charged nicely with that setup.

Trying to reach you but can't send you a message, etc. Can you contact me?

thanks,
Kevin

 

[billharr]

If you are sure you will be going to lithium in the future buy the 30A DC-DC. I like the ability to program the Victron to whatever you want. I have 2 Victron DC-DC 30A chargers. Two 270Ah BB batteries. #2 AWG feeding the chargers 150 amp circuit breaker on this line. I split the 2 AWG to 4 AWG with a dual 60 amp fuse block. They do get hot, I mounted vertically and spaced off the chargers off the wall with aluminum flat bar for more air flow.

 

[TheDudeMan]

If you are sure you will be going to lithium in the future buy the 30A DC-DC. I like the ability to program the Victron to whatever you want. I have 2 Victron DC-DC 30A chargers. Two 270Ah BB batteries. #2 AWG feeding the chargers 150 amp circuit breaker on this line. I split the 2 AWG to 4 AWG with a dual 60 amp fuse block. They do get hot, I mounted vertically and spaced off the chargers off the wall with aluminum flat bar for more air flow.

That's an impressive setup, Bill. Appreciate the confirmation on temperature concerns.

After looking at your blog, I'm curious - where did you fit all that in a Hawk Shell? Picture seems to indicate to the front of the rig?

 

[billharr]

That's an impressive setup, Bill. Appreciate the confirmation on temperature concerns.

After looking at your blog, I'm curious - where did you fit all that in a Hawk Shell? Picture seems to indicate to the front of the rig?

Not in a Hawk. I got old, sold the Hawk and got a Class B van. This is just behind the driver's seat Ford Transit AWD.

 

[Jon R]

I have an Orion 12/12-30 and a Smart MPPT 100/12-30 in my battery compartment mounted to the wood exterior wall with rubber grommets for a little vibration isolation. The Orion does get warm after a long period at full output but if you install it with the recommended spacing it seems to cool adequately.

 

[bsharp007]

Curious what are you running with 540 ah battery power? I use approx 40 ah a day and that's for a 130L fridge and everything else, I could stay out for 14 days with ZERO solar.

 

[kmcintyre]

I went LifePO4 quite a while ago. Built my own battery pack...

If you are sure you will be going to lithium in the future buy the 30A DC-DC. I like the ability to program the Victron to whatever you want. I have 2 Victron DC-DC 30A chargers. Two 270Ah BB batteries. #2 AWG feeding the chargers 150 amp circuit breaker on this line. I split the 2 AWG to 4 AWG with a dual 60 amp fuse block. They do get hot, I mounted vertically and spaced off the chargers off the wall with aluminum flat bar for more air flow.

 

[billharr]

Curious what are you running with 540 ah battery power? I use approx 40 ah a day and that's for a 130L fridge and everything else, I could stay out for 14 days with ZERO solar.

12 volt AC.

 

[Rehaber]

Hi
I have a Hawk 1990, total remodel,

I'm looking to install a Victron Dc To Dc 30 amp Charger,
I have 100 amp Sok Heated Smart Battery,
My question is which one to buy, insolated or non insolated,
Dave

 

[heinphoto]

I'm looking to install a Victron Dc To Dc 30 amp Charger,
I have 100 amp Sok Heated Smart Battery,
My question is which one to buy, insolated or non insolated,
Dave

The non-isolated should be fine and is usually less expensive. The isolated version is usually used in marine applications. You can effectively convert the isolated version into non-isolated by connecting the negative terminals together.

-Scott

 

[Rehaber]

Scott

Thanks, for the info on the Dc to Dc Charger, I like the Victron 30 amp & that takes care of the 2002 2500Hd Chevy
I have 100amp SOK Heated Smart Battery and a 380 watt solar panel at 45 vdc, The size of the solar panel is 39 in by 72 in,42 lbs
The panel is mounted on the passenger rear roof corner, a snug fit...
I'm thinking of using Victron Mppt 100/30 & Smart shunt for the solar panel & battery

This new Smart Victron equipment looks like the way go for me .

My Travel Trailer has Morningstar MPPT 30amp & Bogart shunt
Dave