Death Valley Camping

[rich]

Hi Guys,

As some of you know I am planning a road trip for Christmas. Looks like we are going to hit Pismo and Joshua Tree on the way out to Glendale to see Grandma for Christmas and then on the way back hit the Grand Canyon and Death Valley then out to Mammoth for some snowboarding then home. I have never been to Death Valley before and did some searches on here but couldn't really find a lot of info. I know several of you have spent considerable time out there. We are only going to have 1-3 days tops to spend there so I am looking for the must sees that are on easy to moderate road. My wife isn't up for any serious four wheeling and neither is our truck.

I'm really interested in the race track but some info I've read said it's 20+ miles of washboard and I'm not sure if it's visible in the winter or if it's flooded.

Titus Canyon also looks like a nice moderate drive, not sure about the drive through the Devil's golf course, it looks like a long one. Also any favorite campsites would be great, doesn't have to be boondocking can be anything.

Any info would be great.

Thanks,

Rich

 

[SunMan]

Rich,
You obviously have many options. I would guess you would want to go to Badwater and the Artists Pallete. Probably easy on your itinerary if you're heading west from the Grand Canyon. Zabriske Point is also something to see and as you mention Titus Canyon is a must and not a hard drive...just check to see that it is open.

Ubehebe Crater and the racetrack should be doable, it's up to you as far as the washboards go, just air down and you should be fine. If you're not into wheeling then it's probably best to figure driving back out the way you came in, or go out via Hunter Mountain which may or may not be open at that time. I hear there is snow there already. Darwin Falls would also be an easy stop on the way out of the park.

Lots of places to see without getting too hardcore, these sites might help you out planning your visit:

http://www.backroadswest.com/deathvalley/

http://www.maturango.org/DeathV.html

http://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/upload/Backcountry%20Roads-2.pdf

http://www.dvnha.org/morning_report/Morning.pdf

Non boondock camping generally sucks in DV but here is a list of campgrounds and general info:

http://www.death.valley.national-park.com/camping.htm

Good luck and have fun. I may be out that way myself after X-Mas.

 

[EdoHart]

I live close to Pismo, and would be happy to stop by for an hour or so visit in the afternoon. I can bring maps and pictures of Titus canyon.

It's been several years since I was last out to the Devil's Race Track. The worst I saw it, just about any car could make it provided it went slow enough - even my Miata could have made it provided I drove very slow.

That part of the desert doesn't get much rain (I guess that's why they call it a desert), but when it does, the roads can turn to muck pretty quickly (I wouldn't take the Miata down that road if there was as chance of drizzle). However, I have been fortunate in that I was I was there during a major rain storm and I never felt the need to use 4x4. If you are fortunate enough to see the Devil's Race Track while it is flooded, please remember to not walk on the playa.

 

[Barko1]

Last year I was there the 1st week of February and they got most of their annual rainfall, just over an inch. It closed all the non paved roads and flooded the Furnace Creek Campground but it was neat to see. I believe the road to the Kilns is pretty simple, bring a variety of layers.

 

[generubin]

I have been traveling every square inch of Death Valley for a good 45 years. All the above suggestions are wonderful but I'd strongly suggest Saline Valley Hot Springs as your #1 choice. Be sure to stay at least 2 or 3 nights so that the place sinks in and you "get it". 50 miles of dirt road is incredibly scenic. Just take it slow. I have been going to the Springs for 25 years. You'll see Prius' and Fiestas there. But, and this counts for all of Death Valley: You must have tire chains! 4WD means nothing against ice and mud. DV has many very high passes. Even if you stay on pavement bring chains. And please, if you are 4x4 put them on the front tires so you stay on the road. I do about 5 to 7 trips into DV every year and I use chains on my Dodge Cummins 4x4 at least 3 of the times. In fact, last weekend I was there and chains were required to get out of Saline Valley. I rescued some Chinese tourists in a rental car who had been stuck in 14 degree temps, at 7,000 ft elevation, over night. If they had chains they would have been soaking in the warm pools with the rest of us.

BTW: The "developed" campgrounds are like staying in a parking lot. DV is a wonderful place for the feeling of "adventure". Backcountry camping is allowed under a few conditions.

Pictures below are: Grassy area at Saline Hot Springs, Inyo Mountains from Saline Valley, The Race Track under water (a very rare occasion), one of many passes that go under snow in winter, my son at 4 years old at Saline Hot Springs.

 

[Barko1]

Fantastic picture of the racetrack

 

[rich]

Wow - thanks for the great info everyone, now I am more excited about Death Valley than before! Seems like there is way too much to explore for one trip, we may need to spend some extra days out there.

 

[rich]

Rich,
You obviously have many options. I would guess you would want to go to Badwater and the Artists Pallete. Probably easy on your itinerary if you're heading west from the Grand Canyon. Zabriske Point is also something to see and as you mention Titus Canyon is a must and not a hard drive...just check to see that it is open.

Ubehebe Crater and the racetrack should be doable, it's up to you as far as the washboards go, just air down and you should be fine. If you're not into wheeling then it's probably best to figure driving back out the way you came in, or go out via Hunter Mountain which may or may not be open at that time. I hear there is snow there already. Darwin Falls would also be an easy stop on the way out of the park.

Lots of places to see without getting too hardcore, these sites might help you out planning your visit:

http://www.backroadswest.com/deathvalley/

http://www.maturango.org/DeathV.html

http://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/upload/Backcountry%20Roads-2.pdf

http://www.dvnha.org/morning_report/Morning.pdf

Non boondock camping generally sucks in DV but here is a list of campgrounds and general info:

http://www.death.valley.national-park.com/camping.htm

Good luck and have fun. I may be out that way myself after X-Mas.


Thanks Sunman those are great links!

 

[rich]

I live close to Pismo, and would be happy to stop by for an hour or so visit in the afternoon. I can bring maps and pictures of Titus canyon.

It's been several years since I was last out to the Devil's Race Track. The worst I saw it, just about any car could make it provided it went slow enough - even my Miata could have made it provided I drove very slow.

That part of the desert doesn't get much rain (I guess that's why they call it a desert), but when it does, the roads can turn to muck pretty quickly (I wouldn't take the Miata down that road if there was as chance of drizzle). However, I have been fortunate in that I was I was there during a major rain storm and I never felt the need to use 4x4. If you are fortunate enough to see the Devil's Race Track while it is flooded, please remember to not walk on the playa.

Thanks Ed, that would be great as we nail down the exact date for Pismo I'll PM you, I really appreciate the offer.

 

[rich]

I have been traveling every square inch of Death Valley for a good 45 years. All the above suggestions are wonderful but I'd strongly suggest Saline Valley Hot Springs as your #1 choice. Be sure to stay at least 2 or 3 nights so that the place sinks in and you "get it". 50 miles of dirt road is incredibly scenic. Just take it slow. I have been going to the Springs for 25 years. You'll see Prius' and Fiestas there. But, and this counts for all of Death Valley: You must have tire chains! 4WD means nothing against ice and mud. DV has many very high passes. Even if you stay on pavement bring chains. And please, if you are 4x4 put them on the front tires so you stay on the road. I do about 5 to 7 trips into DV every year and I use chains on my Dodge Cummins 4x4 at least 3 of the times. In fact, last weekend I was there and chains were required to get out of Saline Valley. I rescued some Chinese tourists in a rental car who had been stuck in 14 degree temps, at 7,000 ft elevation, over night. If they had chains they would have been soaking in the warm pools with the rest of us.

BTW: The "developed" campgrounds are like staying in a parking lot. DV is a wonderful place for the feeling of "adventure". Backcountry camping is allowed under a few conditions.

Pictures below are: Grassy area at Saline Hot Springs, Inyo Mountains from Saline Valley, The Race Track under water (a very rare occasion), one of many passes that go under snow in winter, my son at 4 years old at Saline Hot Springs.


Great pics and info Gene! I have heard about Saline Valley but my impression has always been that the road is a nasty 4x4 road and my little T-100 is underpowered with the camper on. Is the road really easy enough for a prius to get in? Also about the tire chains. I don't have a set because my truck is four wheel drive and I have always lived (and stayed living) by the idea that if I need chains on my 4x4 I don't want to be out driving in that weather. I'll be there around new years so I am expecting snow. Do you think Saline Valley will be accessible around new years?

Also the low temps I saw online for the evenings in DV were low 40's high 30's, how common are temperatures in the teens?

Thanks for the info.

 

[rich]

Last year I was there the 1st week of February and they got most of their annual rainfall, just over an inch. It closed all the non paved roads and flooded the Furnace Creek Campground but it was neat to see. I believe the road to the Kilns is pretty simple, bring a variety of layers.

Hey Barko,

Greet pic of the kilns. I see your dog in the pic, we will be traveling with our Border Collie Ryder but the National Parks are so restrictive about dogs we were thinking about trying to leave him with friends for the DV portion of the trip.

How was it for you with the dog, did it tie you to the vehicle too much?

 

[generubin]

Great pics and info Gene! I have heard about Saline Valley but my impression has always been that the road is a nasty 4x4 road and my little T-100 is underpowered with the camper on. Is the road really easy enough for a prius to get in? Also about the tire chains. I don't have a set because my truck is four wheel drive and I have always lived (and stayed living) by the idea that if I need chains on my 4x4 I don't want to be out driving in that weather. I'll be there around new years so I am expecting snow. Do you think Saline Valley will be accessible around new years?

Also the low temps I saw online for the evenings in DV were low 40's high 30's, how common are temperatures in the teens?

Thanks for the info.


The temps you read on line are from Furnace Creek at Sea Level and Scotty's Castle at about 1400 feet elevation. Much of DV is very mountainous this is where the temps drop and the snow comes in. Even at sea level you can get a cold snap in the 20's and 30's. I have been at Furnace Creek and woke one morning to 10 degrees!

About 4x4 and chains. Many of the passes can be steep. These passes are also in the shade most of the day. I have seen plenty of 4x4 just slip and slide, to make zero forward motion on this slippery ice. At the very same time you'll see small 2wd sedans with chains merrily pass the truck and climb right over the hill. Basically, it doesn't matter how many wheels you have driven if they have essentially zero traction. I go on a lot of trips into wild country in groups with other people. We require everyone bring chains no matter what. We don't want one slippery vehicle to to a liability for all the others.

The Saline Valley road is a wide, graded road with the usual washboard. As I said before, last weekend I saw Prius, Fiesta, a Mercedes AMG, a Lexus, a couple of Hondas, plenty of Vanagons and of course the usual 4x4. There are four ways into Saline. The most used South Pass does not require particularly high clearance or 4wd. But I don't care if you are 8wd, the Grapevine Canyon part of the road on the way out is very steep and shady, if it snows and ices up, you'll be stuck and the Prius' with chains will wave at you as they drive by.

DV is an amazing place. Outside of Wrangel St, Elias National Park in Alaska, DV is the largest park in the USA. There is over 750 miles of dirt roads in the park not to mention another 500 miles in the areas just outside the park.

Spend as much time as you can at DV, it is very special.

Enjoy!

Pictures are 1. rocky Mengel Pass at Butte Valley (not recommended for you) but the approach from the east to the beautiful Butte Valley is highly recommended. 2. Chinlisle (Jay) at Saline Valley, 3. DVNP Superintendent and I heading together towards the Saline Grapevine (notice front cable chains). 4. Racetrack under snow.

 

[generubin]

Yes, Saline is doable around New Years. I'll be there for one. Watch www.deathvalley.com forums for more info.

 

[generubin]

Sorry, Racetrack under snow. The dark rocks is The Grandstand.

 

[HERR42]

i have some really good advice:

DV is really spread out. The driving time between locations is significant and easily underestimated. Road conditions are part of the equation but distance is truly a factor.

Seeing one or two sights can consume a full day.....with a lot of that time being behind the wheel.

Dont underestimate.

 

[DirtyDog]

How was it for you with the dog, did it tie you to the vehicle too much?


Many of us had dogs at last years rally. It wasn't much of an issue.

 

[rich]

The temps you read on line are from Furnace Creek at Sea Level and Scotty's Castle at about 1400 feet elevation. Much of DV is very mountainous this is where the temps drop and the snow comes in. Even at sea level you can get a cold snap in the 20's and 30's. I have been at Furnace Creek and woke one morning to 10 degrees!

About 4x4 and chains. Many of the passes can be steep. These passes are also in the shade most of the day. I have seen plenty of 4x4 just slip and slide, to make zero forward motion on this slippery ice. At the very same time you'll see small 2wd sedans with chains merrily pass the truck and climb right over the hill. Basically, it doesn't matter how many wheels you have driven if they have essentially zero traction. I go on a lot of trips into wild country in groups with other people. We require everyone bring chains no matter what. We don't want one slippery vehicle to to a liability for all the others.

The Saline Valley road is a wide, graded road with the usual washboard. As I said before, last weekend I saw Prius, Fiesta, a Mercedes AMG, a Lexus, a couple of Hondas, plenty of Vanagons and of course the usual 4x4. There are four ways into Saline. The most used South Pass does not require particularly high clearance or 4wd. But I don't care if you are 8wd, the Grapevine Canyon part of the road on the way out is very steep and shady, if it snows and ices up, you'll be stuck and the Prius' with chains will wave at you as they drive by.

DV is an amazing place. Outside of Wrangel St, Elias National Park in Alaska, DV is the largest park in the USA. There is over 750 miles of dirt roads in the park not to mention another 500 miles in the areas just outside the park.

Spend as much time as you can at DV, it is very special.

Enjoy!

Pictures are 1. rocky Mengel Pass at Butte Valley (not recommended for you) but the approach from the east to the beautiful Butte Valley is highly recommended. 2. Chinlisle (Jay) at Saline Valley, 3. DVNP Superintendent and I heading together towards the Saline Grapevine (notice front cable chains). 4. Racetrack under snow.


Well Gene you make a compelling point for Saline Valley and the chains. My other car is a prius - maybe I should take it I'll check into what a set of chains would cost for my 31's (gulp). From what I've read online it's about 58 miles of dirt in to the warm springs camp at Saline Valley. What kind of travel time does it usually take you with and without snow to get in and out?

 

[generubin]

Rich,

Cable chains are what I use. You'll only need one set for the fronts. They are less than $100. Check ebay, lots of times you can find brand new sets that someone never used as low as $30.

It takes from Hwy 190 to the Springs about 2 hours under normal conditions. Coming out is the same unless you do have to chain up which adds 1/2 hour. From racetrack is a really scenically spectacular road called Lippincott. Going the downhill way, it is a very easy drive. Going up, a little more of a challenge. But this way allows you to see The Racetrack and then a short cut into Saline.

I'll be there for a few days sometime around Xmas/New Years break. I'll be a fiddler in the camp with some other musicians.

Here is a fun link to a campout with some of my regular camping buddies in the Old Woman Mountains:

 

[kcowyo]

Death Valley is like an onion - people either like it or they don't. Furthering that analogy, I believe it is best revealed in layers, starting on the surface - Badwater, Zabriskie Point, Dante's View, Titus Canyon, etc. - before getting into it's inner layers.

I'll agree that Saline Valley and all of Death Valley is a special place, but I wouldn't recommend Saline to someone who is looking for an easy to moderate trail, and who feels his vehicle & wife aren't up for more than that. It's too remote and too many opportunities for problems for a first time visitor to the park... Better to start off on some of the paved loops taking in the more popular attractions before tackling Saline Valley, the Racetrack, Mengel Pass, etc. There is plenty to see and enjoy in the park for all comfort levels.

I'm just returning to civilization tonight after a few days in Death Valley this week. It was windy & wonderful. I drove through Titus Canyon for the first time since '97. I had forgotten what a fun trail that is. Lots of great places to see in Death Valley. Dip a toe in and go from there....

.

 

[Barko1]

Hey Barko,

Greet pic of the kilns. I see your dog in the pic, we will be traveling with our Border Collie Ryder but the National Parks are so restrictive about dogs we were thinking about trying to leave him with friends for the DV portion of the trip.

How was it for you with the dog, did it tie you to the vehicle too much?


Sorry I missed this post. The National Parks are a pain, I begrudgingly understand. At least in Death Valley you can take your dogs into the backcountry with your vehicle, can't do even that on the White Rim. I don't think you can take them on any of the trails. I wasn't doing much hiking and the park wasn't that busy in part from the weather but you probably can't take off for hours with the pooch. And speaking of Border Collies