Durango to Denver with a 17 day "detour" along the way.

D

Durango1

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Mar 29, 2012
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Dear WTW "Brain Trust"

It started out as a Grand Circle Road Trip. I had a Early August seminar in Seattle and then two weeks later an August 22-23 seminar in Denver. So why not take three weeks and drive it? (Slowly)

Well, the Seattle seminar cancelled but we are still leaving Durango next Thursday (8/3) with 17 GLORIOUS days to make it to Denver AND without having to drive all the way to Seattle! (Even though we love the NW in summer!)

Rough planning (which is all I ever do) up till now is to scoot across Utah/Nevada and hit Steens/Malheur (Sioux is a semi-obsessed birdwatcher). Then after a few days (we might bop over to Bend and see what the Earth Cruiser people are up to) mosey up to Idaho for most of the trip.

I really want to do the Magruder Road Corridor. (Is 3 days taking it slow enough time?) We've also had the Red Rock Lakes recommended for nature watching so looking at Monida Pass going east to Hwy. 87. But honestly...

We just want to really "suck the marrow" out of "The Idaho Experience". (With of course emphasis on birds but also scenery, solitude and nature watching in general.) If we (not likely) get bored we can drop down into Northern Colorado on our way to Denver.

NOTE: We're a fairly fit and experienced mid-60's couple with a 2012 Ram 2500 (with shamefully only 25K miles on it) and a Hawk Flatbed model. In addition to Sioux's nature/scenery obsession we like mild four wheel roads (I'm not dragging the Rubicon along this time), easy to moderate hiking and isolated boondocking with an occasional gourmet restaurant lunch along the way. (Not too wild about finding primitive campsites in the dark!)

Any and all suggestions welcomed and likely followed! Many thanks in advance!

Steve
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Three days on the Magruder sounds nice (caveat: I've never done it), and would allow you to explore some spurs, perhaps including the Green Mountain tower road (which ultimately leads to a trailhead and a secret hot spring--but don't tell anybody), the short Burnt Knob spur, the longer spur to the manned tower towards the east end, and the spur leading north to the Selway River put-in.

Once you reach the MT line and the roads improve leading out to US 93, you can venture southwest and cross back into ID to visit Horse Creek hot spring and its NF campground (or is it a large disbursed area at the hot spring?).

From Horse Creek, a short backtrack to the state line dividing ridge takes you to a banzai descent to the Salmon River at Shoup, ID, where you catch a good road back out to US 93 at North Fork, a little north of Salmon.

With this as the east end of the Magruder, you're adding a good 75 miles to your fuel and provisions interval, with a climb back up and over the dividing ridge occurring twice in the process.

After fuel and supplies in the delightful river town of Salmon, I'd head south on ID 28 the short distance to Tendoy, thence up and over the mountains again, this time over the Continental Divide, to Lemhi Pass, passing the nicely developed Sharkey's Hot Spring directly en route (see a pattern anywhere here?). Natural hot spring waters piped into two small concrete pools, concrete pool apron surrounding them, changing rooms, bathrooms, all for the modest BLM fee of $3/day.

Descend the MT side to MT 324 and pass east through Grant (no services) to the north end of the Big Sheep Creek Backcountry Byway. Run this good graded gravel road up Medicine Lodge Creek for about 30 miles to a low pass, gaze upon the vast basin of upper Big Sheep Creek from the pass, jog right on the short spur to Morrison Lake, and spend the night at 7,700' along the CDT. Bring extra food and refreshments for any CDT backpackers you may find overnighting at Morrison Lake.

Finish the remaining 30 miles of the Byway by passing through the Creek's gorge cutting through the Tendoy Range to Dell, MT and run I-15 up to Lima, MT, where a very good cafe and fuel are awaiting you. Lima is a hotspot of rest and resupply for CDT backpackers as well as Divide Trail cyclists, many of whom you will have seen on the Byway and will see in the Centennial Valley coming up. Keep a cooler with iced down bottled water, soft drinks, beer, and fresh fruit and offer some chilled respite to any cyclists you see. You'll make friends for life by doing so.

You'll turn off of I-15 just before Monida Pass at the Monida exit (no services). South Shore Road, aka MT 509, runs against the foot of the Centennial Mountains along the south side of the spectacular Centennial Valley, with Red Rock Lakes NWR towards its eastern end around 40 miles from Monida. Lakeview is the NWR headquarters but offers no fuel or services. A few miles east of Lakeview is a spur road up to Elk Lake Lodge, a nice and slightly rustic cabin/lodge/restaurant/bar complex, entirely off the grid (diesel and propane gennies and an impressive solar array provide electricity). ELL would be a fine overnight stop with a very nice cabin and unlimited hot water to remove several days of dust, have a gourmet meal, some cold refreshments (but only until 9pm when the bar closes because that's Jake's bedtime for his standard 0400 "get busy time").

Backtrack the 6 miles to MT 509, turn east, pass over Hellroaring Creek, at the head of which is Bowers Spring, the source of the Missouri River), climb Red Rock Pass (Camry-rated), and descend to Henrys Lake, ID. Running south a few miles brings you to Island Park, where a big riverside fuel/provisions/flyshop, etc awaits you.

A spur to the south of MT 509 around 15 miles east of Monida takes you to the CDT atop the Centennial Mountains, and a short distance north/west along the CDT brings you to some large open areas with stellar views. Driving up the Sawtwll Observatory road from near Island Park gives better access for a hike to Browers Spring and an opportunity to catch the views from the Observatory itself.

Go for it Steve and Sioux!

Foy
 
WOW, Foy! This is so very nice of you. And exactly what we're looking for- insider advice from a seasoned local expert!

My guess is we'll follow your route exactly. I was looking for a lengthy, multi-day "off-the-grid" expedition run and your addition to the Magruder appears to fit the bill. I'm working it now with my Benchmark and am sure I'll be back with more questions.

NOTE: OK, Foy, one question now. Your reference to the "banzai descent to the Salmon River at Shoup, ID" has me thinking. I'm not scared of four wheel driving but the Ram/Hawk Flatbed combo loaded is almost 10,000#! Just how "bansai" is this descent? :) (Gotta think about Sioux's "pucker factor"!)

Folks, as Foy already discerned this isn't an "Idaho only" trip. Happy to consider working in western Montana/Wyoming on our eventual run down to Denver.

Thanks again!

Steve
 
So Foy, I painstakingly highlighted the entire route on my Idaho and Montana Benchmarks. (An exercise in itself!)

So are there any refueling options on the actual route or is the first one Salmon or North Fork? I guess I could run out to HWY 93 on Forest Service road 468 before heading south but that sorta breaks up the "primitive" trip concept. :)

Steve
 
Foy, what is a good/best time of year to do this route? We would love to do this, especially if there is some good hiking to throw in on top of the pleasure of hot springs soaking!
 
Steve and Vic,

I think (and hope) I've said before that I have not run the Magruder, nor have I been down from the state line ridge to Shoup, nor have I been along the Salmon River to US 93 at North Fork, up to Morrison Lake off of the BSCBB, or up to the CDT from MT 509. I did study the Magruder carefully for a 2011 trip which got re-routed, I have a friend living in Challis who told me about Horse Creek HS, and I've talked to several people about the spur up to Morrison Lake when I contemplated pulling my camper up there from the BSCBB. Everything else I've mentioned here, I've done in my old Superduty.

The add-on distance for going over the state line divide to Horse Creek and Shoup to North Fork was a SWAG (sopisticated wild a__ guess). It's probably somewhat shorter than that. I'd just scale it off on the Benchmarks or work some magic with some digital mapping apps to nail it down. I don't think there is fuel in Shoup but I may be wrong. My friend in Challis is a hot springing guru and he took his 21' Class C motorhome up to Horse Creek from Shoup and said it was "all he wanted". I have noticed a switchback or two on the descent on the Benchmarks but I don' think I've ever zoomed in on a digital USGS topo. I'll bet you can work the telephone a bit and find somebody in a USFS District Ranger office who can tell you what the road is like, as well as somebody from the MT side who can offer details on the ascent from the eastern end of the Magruder up to the state line dividing ridge.

It was 2011 the last time I passed North Fork enroute to Salmon (and Gold Bug HS) along US 93 and I don't recall fuel at North Fork or anywhere else before Salmon. I did top off with diesel at a big fuel plaza on the east side of Salmon, probably where US 93 turns back south while ID 28 goes straight.

I don't recall from my prior research how far it is from the last fuel on the western end of the Magruder (at Elk City?) to its beginning, but isn't the Magruder something like 110 miles overall? And I'd guess you're lopping off a good 15-20 miles off the east end by turning south to go to Horse Creek/Shoup/North Fork. I am a bit spoiled by the 38 gallon OEM diesel tank on my truck, so fuel range doesn't often present limitations or concerns. It would seem likely, however, that a couple of 5 gallon Jerrycans would provide adequate capacity for whatever the distance from Elk City to Salmon actually is.

As to "when to go", the snowpack decides the earliest starting date. If I recall correctly, the Magruder doesn't open all the way through until mid- to late June after a high snowpack year and it'll get closed out as soon as the snow flies in Sept/Oct. I think parts of the Magruder top 8,500' and I expect the state line dividing ridge @ the Horse Creek area is between 7.500' and 8,000', so north-facing slopes keep snow well into the summer and it'll all close up quick once it gets cold. I've read recommendations to not "push" the opening in June, either, due to the hundreds of blowdowns from winter still being jackstrawed for miles and miles. Plus, I would not want to share the area during ID's elk hunting season, when the roads are more heavily used by outfitters and their sports. That probably backs you into July + August as the ideal times to go.

Oh, and there are two routes from Tendoy up to Lemhi Pass. Agency Creek Rd is the most direct and signage at the pass itself suggest not taking camper trailers on it due to "winding and steep" terrain. The other route, Warm Springs Rd, is Camry-rated and goes right by Sharkey's HS, anyway. The BLM has erected and maintains a number of historical markers concerning Lewis & Clark along the route, particularly at the pass, and the entire route is part of the BLMs "Lewis & Clark Backcountry Byway and Adventure Route", or something like that. Brochures available online.

And of course the CDT crosses the route at Lemhi Pass, thus providing other opportunities for hiking. Bannock Pass (where MT 324 crosses) and Bannack Pass (farther south along the CDT) are other vehicle-accessible CDT crossings not too far off of the overall route discussed.

Dang it, this sounds like so much fun, I might have to run it myself next year!

Foy
 
I waited out a passing rain shower with my Benchmarks. What I saw is:

The turn-off to head over to Horse Creek/Shoup/North Fork is only 8-10 miles from US 93 at Conner. I distinctly recall fuel in Connor, so probably no need to run up to Darby if range is an issue.

It's about 25 miles south from the turn-off at the West Fork ranger station, up and over the state line divide, to Horse Creek HS.

It's about 15 miles from Horse Creek HS to the Salmon River above Shoup. About 6 miles of that is more or less atop the divide, then the descent to the river having some switchbacks.

Looks like its another 15 miles out to US 93 from the foot of the road from Horse Creek. That's pretty level and I believe it's paved.

And finally another 15 miles down to Salmon.

So, turns out is IS around 70 miles on to Salmon from a point just 10 or so miles from the eastern end of the Magruder Corridor. I suppose that means a fuel range of around 180-200 miles is needed from the last fuel before the beginning of the Magruder (Elk City, ID?) to Salmon, via the route discussed here.

Couple of additional points: Lovers of hot springs may enjoy Red River HS, a developed HS near the western end of the Magruder. The other is that to do this, one must complete +100 miles of the Magruder, get onto pavement for a few miles, then turn away from it for another 40 miles of gravel over the mountains to Shoup.

Foy
 
I hope it keeps raining up there, Foy! :)

Seriously, I (and my guess is many others) are very appreciative of your efforts. And if your friend took his Class C RV UP from Shoup I better be able to take a 4WD 3/4 Ram down it or just hang up my transfer case!

Now how about all you other SE Oregon (Steens anyone?)/ Idaho/ Montana/ Wyoming experts out there. Let's not ask Foy to do ALL the heavy lifting...
 
Foy can give out a heavy dose of Montana. We pretty much followed it to a tee, including boondocking up into the Pioneer Mountains, Skalkaho Pass from Hamilton over to Philipsburg, and Rock Creek for some flyfishing. 93 up through the Bitterroot Valley. Check my blog post, you might pick up something to add. Last Sept/Oct. jd
 
Wyoming, Wind River Range. We stayed out side Lander at Sinks Canyon State Park on the Popo Agie River and then at the opposite end at Green River Lakes Campground (plenty of boondocking sites), absolutely beautiful, with flat top mountain sticking out of the fog as we left, then Yellowstone and Tetons. jd
 
I'm going to get in touch with my friend in Challis. I just took a peek at the MT DeLorme and the segment from Horse Creek down to the Salmon River looks sketchier on that map base. I'll look at the digital USGS topos, too. Friend Steve may have been describing his Class C motorhome access as an out-and-back from Conner, MT, via Woods Creek Pass. I clearly recall him saying he'd been in and out of Horse Creek HS from Conner at some poin, perhaps referring to that as a preferable route to the knarlier Trail 038 and 044 route. Stand by, it can take Steve a day or three to respond to emails. In the meantime, and if time is of the essence, I recommend working the phone with the District Ranger's office, likely in Salmon. One can generally catch a field person in the office early and late in the day, M-F. Giving a field person the road/trail number you're interested in (from the Benchmark it's 044 and 038, or as designated on a NF map or NF MVUM) and telling he or she what you're trying to do is a great way to get the up-to-the-minute skinny on road conditions and overall feasibility.

I also renewed some map study of the long spur route out past the Green Mountain tower on the north side of the Magruder around 1/3 of the way in from Elk City. It looks like about a 15 mile each way spur off of the Magruder. It's got to be passable since York Outfitters (out of Elk City) has a base camp at the end of the road (FS 357) and they routinely pull stock trailers in and out of camp from the Magruder. And, the end of FS 357 is a trailhead for the Idaho Centennial Trail and a spur leading down Running Creek to the Selway River, all within the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness. I forget exactly where the secret hot spring is relative to York's base camp, but it's not far, if memory serves. I'm going to figure that out, too, with some hot springer buddies. The York camp location shows as a "T" trailhead symbol named Warm Springs Bar on my ID Benchmark.

Foy
 
Do you ever sleep, Foy? :)

We are interested in taking (reasonable and "worthwhile") spur roads off the Magruder. We've finally (after way too much rushing about and 16 hour days driving) arrived at the "less is more" philosophy. (Even though the total mileage of this 3 week trip will probably be 2500 or more miles!)

BTW, for anyone thinking about Idaho this book has been useful. (Even though I find the lack of an overall map showing all the drives on one page incomprehensible and would like to see their "most scenic", "toughest road", etc classifications.)

Thanks again, Foy, for your help and interest. Looking forward to what "friend Steve" has to report.

Steve
 
Steve,
I sleep like a baby every night, but I don't watch TV, play golf, or do much of anything other than work at my office, work in the yard, read, and piddle with my vehicles (excepting I do play with my grandchildren a lot!).

Steve from Challis got right back to me. He confirms having gone UP from Shoup on the "Spring Creek Rd" starting a little upstream (along the Salmon River) from Shoup. His motorhome is a 22' Class C with poor ground clearance. The elevation gain from the river to the dividing ridge is 4,000' according to Steve and the USGS topos show 4,532' gained from the river to Horse Creek Pass, which by the way is NOT the entrance to Horse Creek HS, and more elevation gain to total 5,052' of gain to the high point along Spring Creek Rd. Woods Creek Pass, a little farther north-northwest along the dividing ridge is the entrance to Horse Creek HS on the Idaho side. The HS is at 6,000' so there's + or - a 1,500-1,800' elevation drop to reach it from the dividing ridge/road.

The USGS topos show FS 038 carrying the name Spring Creek Road all the way to near Blue Nose Lookout where the road # changes to 044 for the rest of the way to Woods Creek Pass. Blue Nose Lookout looks very interesting! Just a short spur off of 038/044.

Steve said he exited via Painted Rocks on the MT side since he didn't want to descend to Shoup in his 2WD motorhome with no low range gearbox. There are 9 tight switchbacks between the Salmon River and the dividing ridge, and I'd definitely be in low range and off the brakes on that drop, myself. I most certainly recommend that method to any WTW-er planning the +5,000' gravel road slalom from Horse Creek Pass to Shoup! That's not a place to burn your brakes up!

Steve reminded me that the area around Horse Creek HS burned in 2013 and the USGS campground closed after that. The vault toilet is still there and disbursed camping is fine there and most everywhere along the whole route. He says good camping can be had at Spring Creek, likely at the mouth of it on the Salmon River, where the topos show a boat ramp and a loop driveway.

So there we are, ladies and gentlemen. Stay on the hunt/planning exercises and let's further discuss anything which comes up!

Foy
 
If you make it to the Steens, something a little different is the Diamond Craters a bit north. Below is a link to the brochure.

https://www.blm.gov/or/resources/recreation/files/brochures/DiamondCratersTourBrochure_August07.pdf

Page Springs is a nice campground. A nice walk from the campground is to head out the campground, turn left and walk over the canal, then immediately turn right onto a road that parallels the canal. No vehicles are allowed on the road. Might be good bird watching on the walk.

Dinner at Frenchglen Hotel is supposed to be nice. I tried for three nights to get in and didn't succeed. If you want to eat dinner there, here is the phone number (or it was the number a few years ago) 541-493-2825.

Also a walk to the Riddle Ranch is enjoyable and interesting.
 
searching for nowhere said:
I haven't gotten out my map and followed Foy's route but it sounds like it goes close to the Gravelly Range Backcounty Road. This road intrigues me. I may drive it in September. If you take, please report in.


http://www.bigskyfishing.com/scenic-drives/gravelly-range.php
Click to expand...
The Gravelly Range road to the southwest of Ennis, MT in fact ties in to the Centennial Valley at its southern end. It intersects the North Shore Rd and by turning east there you'll go right by the entrance to Elk Lake Lodge and passing that up you'll connect to MT 509 (South Shore Rd) near its eastern end at around Hellroaring Creek.

Both the Gravelly Range Rd and the Blacktail Creek Road (south-southeast of Dillon) are on my list, having never run either of them.

Foy
 
searching for nowhere said:
If you make it to the Steens, something a little different is the Diamond Craters a bit north. Below is a link to the brochure.

https://www.blm.gov/or/resources/recreation/files/brochures/DiamondCratersTourBrochure_August07.pdf

Page Springs is a nice campground. A nice walk from the campground is to head out the campground, turn left and walk over the canal, then immediately turn right onto a road that parallels the canal. No vehicles are allowed on the road. Might be good bird watching on the walk.

Dinner at Frenchglen Hotel is supposed to be nice. I tried for three nights to get in and didn't succeed. If you want to eat dinner there, here is the phone number (or it was the number a few years ago) 541-493-2825.

Also a walk to the Riddle Ranch is enjoyable and interesting.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Actually we spent three days camped at Page Springs 2 years ago. We almost always boondock but it is a nice CG. And we did the exact same canal walk you describe with great bird watching results.

I'm wavering on stopping at Malheur/ Steens this trip. Great stuff (and the Steens road was still closed by snow two years ago. But Foy is laying out an entire summer's worth of trips for us.

Also I'm intrigued by the "temperate rain forest" drives/hikes/bird watching north of Priest Lake in Idaho. Anyone have any experience with this area?

And Foy, I too am interested in the Gravelly Road. Will report back if we run it.
 
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