Electric Pickup Truck

buckland

buckland

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A few years ago I started a thread on this ... it fizzled ... poo-pawed as not in our lifetime... but excuse me ... IT is coming faster than you might think. All that weight down low. Independent 4 wheel drive motors. No oil ..no diesel/gas few moving parts...QUIET... it is a perfect platform for leave no trace. Sit long enough with a panel and get a basic fuel recharge. 400 mile range (I get 500 with diesel 2.8 l).

All sounds good to me... I'm a cheerleader for quiet

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/06/gm-shares-hit-new-record-on-plans-for-electric-chevy-silverado-pickup.html

Buckland...aka Rob
 
Good cheer leading.Yes it will come hopefully sooner then later.
Also in the mix will be Hydrogen fuel cell,maybe a better way to go for
large non oil uses.
The future will be here sooner then we might be ready for it.

These vehicles may be priced out of sight for the general public though.

Be interesting what other remarks are posted.
Frank
 
Hopefully they will figure our a way to recycle the batteries. As far as I know, they all go in the dump for the most part since companies do not have to disclose what their makeup is so most places will not take them.
 
Yup I too think Hydrogen is the real cheap way to go... it is real close... at my age I probably won't have one but it would be fun to see the youth buy into it. Batteries... even Tesla decided to switch from ion to the LiFePo4.... much longer lasting and can be recycled albeit now at a cost.
 
I live boonies but hep cat about recycling ... we do well ...we haver a special box for anything lithium... AA batteries, Vacuum etc... I think they are starting too realize there is more lithium in there they can extract... just now not = to virgin.... that will change real soon
 
Taku,

There is a lot of concern around the much larger scale mining for the copper, cobalt, nickel, manganese, lead, lithium and rare earth material that will be needed to make the millions of electric motors and batteries for electric vehicles. As most of us know mining has a history of being hugely destructive and both polluting and contaminating. Add to that the disposal of the batteries and motors containing all those processed materials and the potential environmental impact is very large.

I am no expert on this but I have read quite a bit on the concerns expressed by a number of knowledgable researchers as well as minimization of the concerns by others.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/cobalt-battery-evs-shortage

I hope this is taken simply as an informative comment which may or may not stimulate others to dig into the facts and detiails. I am not seeking a debate on this.
 
Definitely not a long term solution yet.... Hydrogen seems to be the cleanest option. The ugly side of electric is the battery. Germans have been working on a salt based battery which is easily dismantled and recycled but it is still not able to deliver the storage lithium does.
 
I am all for long term solutions driven by free market forces.

I am strongly against long term solutions driven by either Congressional or Executive Branch action. I was a participant in the "Cash For Clunkers" fiasco and while laughing all the way to the bank after receiving $4,500 as a trade allowance for my barely running 1990 Suburban, I was and remain appalled at the foolishness behind the program. That said, it was exactly what I expected it to be and when combined with Solyndra just a year later, it reinforced my innate opposition to Gummint intervention on such a grand scale.

For the record, I am a Registered Cynic.

Foy
 
Do you have any actual data to back these claims up? From the research I have seen, the lifecycle emissions (which includes manufacturing and disposal) are generally lower for electric and hybrid vehicles and can be substantially lower where the electric grid has significant renewable energy.

I am looking at getting a Tesla in the near future, they seem like fun, sporty and efficient vehicles to me, not an 'abysmal failures'.
 
Ya just wanted a chit chat about something new wave.... certainly don't want to argue about it. Hydrogen is the cleanest and... someone just made a semi soiid paste of hydrogen so like a solid fuel... no pressurized booms!... somebody will make it work...Toyota has been betting on it in steady research. Anyway.... glad this forum is here and the exchange of ideas...expertise ... help to make the travels fun. As my dad used to say.... "gonna be dead a long time.... might as well be nice while here such a short time"
 
Folks, let’s focus on the pros and cons of the technology and not our opinions about the role of the Government or any other entities that we believe may or may not have a role in developing the proposed trucks.
 
I am a little mixed on hydrogen as fuel source. Part of the reason it was pushed so hard last decade was that the vast majority of hydrogen actually comes from reforming methane (aka Natural Gas), so it isn't really a move away from fossil fuels and it doesn't reduce carbon dioxide emissions. In the future, hydrogen could be made from electrolysis of water using renewable electricity, however the overall efficiency of this is lower than using the electricity to power cars directly. On the other hand even if produced from methane it does reduce air pollution in cities.

I could see a pretty cool application of using hydrogen to power a small fuel cell, which could then charge an EV. Kind of like a hydrogen gerry can, but I have no idea on how efficient that would actually be.
 
The following reports are worth a read (as well as some of the referenced documents)

However, there is always the issue of who is paying for the research and was there a target conclusion in mind or was the research allowed to come to an independent conclusion independent of the motives of the funding.

Another question is if the research truely looked at the total life cycle impacts considering all potential impacts from mining through disposal and recycling.

I'll leave those questios for readers to sort out.


"Lifecycle Analysis Comparison of a Battery Electric Vehicle and a Conventional Gasoline Vehicle"

https://www.ioes.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/ev-vs-gasoline-cars-practicum-final-report.pdf

"The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil cars"

https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/2833-the-environmental-footprint-of-electric-versus-fossil-cars


Enjoy,
Craig
 
ramblinChet said:
I am happy to concentrate on the pros and cons of different technologies on a fair and level playing field.

The simple fact is the electric vehicle industry is being subsidized by our taxpayer money that can be measured in not just hundreds-of-millions, but billions of dollars. The well has already been poisoned and it will never be a fair and level playing field since the advanced technologies being developed will continue to benefit those same companies for an indefinite amount of time. Any fair discussion must include these details.

And this is not an opinion - these are facts.
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Would it not also be true that the fossil fuel industry and 'conventional' vehicle makers (many of whom are now also EV makers) have also been subsidized by taxpayers (of various countries) for 100's of billions of dollars for around a century now? To suddenly call for no subsidies for EV makers when they are trying to compete against entrenched industries that were built on these subsidies for a century does not seem like a level playing field to me.

I do think that EVs would eventually take over the market on their merits alone, but given the inertia they are competing against as well as the trajectory we are currently on, this would take too long.

This is my opinion :)
 
Well put Lars. The Petroleum Industry has enjoyed a long history of 'support'. Encouraging new ideas and tech much of the work is overcoming entrenched mindsets. For the most part people hate change...even when it is good for them.
 
rando said:
Would it not also be true that the fossil fuel industry and 'conventional' vehicle makers (many of whom are now also EV makers) have also been subsidized by taxpayers (of various countries) for 100's of billions of dollars for around a century now? To suddenly call for no subsidies for EV makers when they are trying to compete against entrenched industries that were built on these subsidies for a century does not seem like a level playing field to me.
Click to expand...
Agree completely. To call the EV industry out for subsidies while completely ignoring the long history and continued subsidies to the petroleum and standard vehicle industry just doesn't make sense.
 
Some thoughts:

In any emerging technology informed persons will disagree on what the facts are and their relevance. Unfortunately, our press has taken upon itself to determine what facts should be advanced and what facts should be suppressed.
true.jpg

The best technology doesn't alway win. Beta vs VHS comes immediately to my mind.

I'm not against subsidizing new technology but it seems that the technologies our government subsidizes is mostly a way to funnel money to their friends and supporters.

I have not seen a good plan on how we are going to power all these electric vehicles that are going to be running around.
- wind turbines have serious environmental effects that are not being discussed.
- it will take huge solar farms to replace fossil fuel powered transportation.
- nuclear has a 10+ year lead time and a lot of resistance.
- natural gas fired plants are doable in a couple but also have a lot of resistance.
- our electric grid is 70+ years old and is not being updated very fast.

i don't expect to have an electric vehicle in my lifetime.
- the current technology doesn't meet my needs.
- I cannot afford another vehicle.
- I probably won't be overlanding long enough for used EVs to be affordable.
 
Ted said:
Agree completely. To call the EV industry out for subsidies while completely ignoring the long history and continued subsidies to the petroleum and standard vehicle industry just doesn't make sense.
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As a practicing CPA and a one time mineral exploration geologist, I see lots of debates concerning Federal subsidies, particularly concerning the oil and gas business. What I see most often is a misuse of the term "subsidy". Most debaters refer to the O&G business as recipients of "billions of dollars of subsidies" when in fact they are referring to the fact that O&G businesses claim billions of dollars in deductions for the expenses incurred in the exploration for, production of, and refining of their products. To the greatest extent, these deductions are ordinary in every sense--just like my little CPA firm deducts office rent, payroll, payroll taxes, housekeeping services for cleaning the office, and the costs of our computers and software, and just like my plumbing contractor client deducts his payroll, tools, vehicles, and office rent on his sole proprietorship Schedule C. Our deductions are not subsidies in any sense, and I would argue that O&G companies also benefit primarily from simple deductions rather than subsidies.

By contrast, the $7,500 tax credit for purchasing hybrid automobiles, the 30% of cost tax credit for purchasing home solar equipment, and the loan guarantees obtained by companies like Solyndra are actually subsidies--they are direct payments by the government to purchasers of certain favored products which is a clear inducement for consumers to purchase the products, and the loan guarantees are the principal manners by which otherwise shaky industries which are poor credit risks can obtain credit in the regular capital markets, so when the guarantees are paid, they're subsidies, too.

I've opined for much of my 36 years in practice that large scale tax code simplification will never happen for one principal reason: As important as the Code is in terms of collecting revenue, it provides an equally important power for the government to exercise economic and social engineering. I can't envision either the Federal or state government giving up that power.

So, in discussions about the various merits and demerits of developing technologies, it's helpful to properly distinguish between real subsidies and simple tax deductions for ordinary and necessary business expenses. All businesses get the latter, and the chosen few get the former.

Foy
 
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