Features: The useful and not-so-useful

[trasko]

I've just recently acquired a mid-eighties Grandby that I'm very excited about. It's very dirty, leaks and has holes in the pop-up fabric but I'm not afraid of that. In fact, I'm excited to tear in to it and fix it up.

But here's the thing. I've never owned nor even slept in a camper before. I've done all my camping in tents and last year I used a shell on the back of my truck on a few trips. It's fine, but there is a lot of work each day shuffling stuff around (like setting up the kitchen, then breaking the kitchen down, then setting up the bed stuff, then putting it all away during the day, etc). Not to mention not being able to stand. I toyed with the idea of a "platform" but then I'd have so little room to maneuver it wouldn't be any fun.

So, I have a Grandby FWC now. It has a sink with a manual pump faucet, a 2-burner stove and an ancient (and dirty) icebox. There is a single interior light. What I am wondering is what sort of features do most people really get a lot of use out of? What is really great to have and what are the things that aren't such a big deal? I know this is often just personal preference, but I'd love to hear what ya'll have to say.


To get things started I'll state a couple of things I think I want:

* LED lighting all around. Incandescents and fluorescents are out, LEDs are in. I can wire them up. I am picky about light so these seem pretty mandatory. I want lights to read in bed, lights for cooking and lights for just seeing everything. I want LEDs on the outside. Do people find the exterior lights useful?

* Real fridge. This seems like a luxury to me, but why not? Using coolers for everything gets old. Do most people like the 3-way fridges or do people end up going back to ice boxes thinking "simpler is better?"

* (implied from above): Battery? Solar? Charger? all of a sudden it seems like I'm getting overly complex.


Thanks for any help. I am hoping to plan ahead of time more than I normally do so I'd like to incorporate all the features I might want into my design.

 

[Barko1]

One little $25 change I made was to install a 12v water pump with a little rocker switch, very convenient. As for refrigeration I'd look for a 12v high efficiency like the Coleman Stirling compressor types, an Engel or other variation (there was a recent post). A battery doesn't seem like an option, got to have it and a smaller solar panel can keep it happy. The only other thing that is essential to me and it depends on your camp plans is good heating that is simple and doesn't use much battery power. For me that meant a Wave 3. And you need a simple means to hold your grey water, I use a short piece of garden hose that stays connected to a 5 gallon water container which rides on the rear bumper when not in use. Since this picture I shortened the hose so it is just long enough to reach the ground when deployed.

 

[Argonaut20]

I like the 3 way fridge as it consumes no power when on propane. Put an automatic relighter on it for those windy days. Heat? Your choice. The catalytic heater is likely cheaper than a furnace and doesn't use power to heat. I would definitely get a solar panel. You can mount it on the roof or leave it loose so you can station it away from the camper when you want to park in the shade. (I made a mount between the cab and the camper to carry the panel. When I want to use the panel, I remove it from the mount, plug it in, and set it in the sun.) Battery with a charge line to the truck with an isolator is a no brainer as mentioned above. Shop around for plastic containers that fit in the storage areas of the camper. They keep litter and mess to a minimum and they help organize. I found that things like LED book lights are handy for easy on night lights. I clip one to the lift panel and use it to read with when bedding down.

 

[simimike]

I'll second the motion for the 12V water pump. It makes clean up so much easier. I have the 3 way refrigerator and the only problem I've had is remembering to turn down the temp control at night so I don't freeze the lettuce. LED lighting is the only way to go. I use a head lamp for reading at night. I also have the forced air heater and if I was going to do it over I would go with a Wave3 type heater. When I ordered the camper I didn't get the solar panels. In hindsight I wish I had, they may be in my future. Having a on board battery is a must in my opinion. Not worrying about draining the truck battery helps you sleep at night. Hope this helps.

mike

 

[MarkBC]

My 2¢:
I am glad to have the propane (3-way) 'frig -- especially with a freezer that really works. I enjoyed ice cream in the Trout Creek Mts of SE Oregon on July 4th! I don't want another appliance that draws down my battery -- propane 'frig is what works best for me.

I have a solar panel, but I don't have it mounted flat on the roof; I keep it separate so I can point it more-towards the sun, as I posted here. (I will soon have a less-funky panel-support system...bought some aluminum angle-stock).

 

[Desert Rancher]

I also have the water pump. I added a foot switch that connects to a small jack down by the floor. Using the foot switch to get small "bursts" of water tends to use less than using the toggle switch

For lighting above the bed, I went with this as it was about the thinnest I could find. They can be screwed or velcroed to the ceiling and don't get mashed into the bed to much.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=11151&partNumber=9361189&langId=-1

 

[dsrtrat]

I've just recently acquired a mid-eighties Grandby that I'm very excited about. It's very dirty, leaks and has holes in the pop-up fabric but I'm not afraid of that. In fact, I'm excited to tear in to it and fix it up.

But here's the thing. I've never owned nor even slept in a camper before. I've done all my camping in tents and last year I used a shell on the back of my truck on a few trips. It's fine, but there is a lot of work each day shuffling stuff around (like setting up the kitchen, then breaking the kitchen down, then setting up the bed stuff, then putting it all away during the day, etc). Not to mention not being able to stand. I toyed with the idea of a "platform" but then I'd have so little room to maneuver it wouldn't be any fun.

So, I have a Grandby FWC now. It has a sink with a manual pump faucet, a 2-burner stove and an ancient (and dirty) icebox. There is a single interior light. What I am wondering is what sort of features do most people really get a lot of use out of? What is really great to have and what are the things that aren't such a big deal? I know this is often just personal preference, but I'd love to hear what ya'll have to say.


To get things started I'll state a couple of things I think I want:

* LED lighting all around. Incandescents and fluorescents are out, LEDs are in. I can wire them up. I am picky about light so these seem pretty mandatory. I want lights to read in bed, lights for cooking and lights for just seeing everything. I want LEDs on the outside. Do people find the exterior lights useful?

* Real fridge. This seems like a luxury to me, but why not? Using coolers for everything gets old. Do most people like the 3-way fridges or do people end up going back to ice boxes thinking "simpler is better?"

* (implied from above): Battery? Solar? Charger? all of a sudden it seems like I'm getting overly complex.


Thanks for any help. I am hoping to plan ahead of time more than I normally do so I'd like to incorporate all the features I might want into my design.


First ask yourself how many levels of complexity you are willing to add to your camping experience. Then analyze the type of camping you primarily do. Do you do weekends, backcountry-off road, front country or established campgrounds, extended cross country trips?

You can then decide if you want to spend a lot of time maintaining your systems.
Look through the archives and see what the most common problems seem to be with the camper systems. I have found that anything that rotates (has a motor) or requires a lot of battery power tends to break down in the field. If you are the kind of person who likes to tinker you are in luck. I was surprised at how much maintenance camper systems require.

My ATC Panther was my first RV as well and I tend to do backcountry-off road trips. I mostly use the camper to sleep in and like to cook and stay outside most of the time.

I bought my camper used and it had a stove, sink, 3 way fridge and furnace. The furnace is nice and some type of heat is a good idea as the aluminum construction and soft material wall make for a pretty cold unit. I have had to change the igniter board and play around with the propane delivery system to get reliable operation in very cold weather. I would go with the simpler catalytic type heater if I did it again.

I found that the 3 way fridge was just too much work to keep level in the type of terrain I camp in. I like to be able just pull in and sleep in the middle of the night and not have to worry if I am level enough for a fridge. Others swear by then, most seem to swear at them. I finally went with an Engel and find it works well for me.
I seldom use the sink and would be just as happy without it, using a basin and water jugs. Do you really need to carry 12 to 20 gallons of water everywhere you go?

I added solar and modified a lot of the interior spaces and have now refined the camper to my satisfaction, but if I bought a new one I would buy a shell model and modify it to suit.

Just my opinion I am sure others will see things differently.

Dsrtrat

 

[pods8]

When I'm solo for a day or two I really like: Having a dry place with good lighting, heat (in the cold times), a built in stove to quickly cook a meal, and organized storage. The sink/fridge/etc. don't get much use then because I just use a cooler for a couple items and wipe up dishes.

When out longer, esp. when with the family the sink w/ pump and fridge come into play.

Solar to me really depends on how long you want to boondock verse how much battery you have. Since I'm usually out for shorter trips and have 210AH of battery I haven't had a need for it (not that I'd turn it down if it fell in my lap ) but would quickly want it if parking in the desert for a week or two. Currently I maintain my batteries pretty well when the truck is running at top them off at home with shore power.

 

[trasko]

Wow thanks for all the feedback. I'm keeping notes. I'm vacillating between stripping out the ice box and single incandescent light and just using the same cooler I've used for years (an awesome and big one) and portable battery powered LED lights (LED lantern, book light and head lamps). I'd have essentially no "features" to speak of. Hmmph.

Does anyone use a table in the camper? I've seen some that screw on to a mount in the floor. Seems like that'd be nice as when I've camped over there years a table and chair start to look real civilized.

Here are my notes thus far:

* Sink / water: perhaps not needed so much solo or for short trips; Good for longer trips or trips w/ family. A foot-actuated switch sounds like a great idea. There was a mention of storing grey water. Why? Is it to keep the campsite tidy? Keep animals from being attracted? Is it a rule some places?

* Fridge: lots of diff. opinions. A few say cooler is simplest. There seems to be a debate between 3-way fridges and 12v compressor types. I didn't know about this before. Looks like 3-ways take less energy to run but compressor types have better cooling and don't have the strong sensitivity to not being level. Is there is a difference in price between the 3-way and the compressor types?

* Interior lighting: can go all out or simple with use of LED stick-on lights, headlamps and book reading lights.

* Catalytic heaters seem to be preferred by most. I have a heater in mine but I don't know what type it is. Looks like a standard gravity heater/furnace to me.



I am concerned about storage space. Do people find that they have enough for their camping activities? I am spoiled by throwing tons of sleeping bags, tents, chairs, cooking stuff and whatall in the bed of the truck and hitting the road.

 

[Barko1]

Does anyone use a table in the camper? There was a mention of storing grey water. Why? Is it to keep the campsite tidy? Keep animals from being attracted? Is it a rule some places?


I am concerned about storage space.



I built in a dinette options, several threads on that. Don't use it a lot but good for eating if it's raining, or snowing.
Most campgrounds want you to contain your grey water and even where it is not a rule it seems better to contain it rather than let it drain right there. If you don't have a hose attached it'll just run down the side of your truck Some places get pretty obsessed about it and insist you drain everything into a designated waste water spot, I think Oregon state parks are like that but they are so cramped anyway I'd avoid them like the plague. I imagine the grey water could attract bugs or other creatures although I have never had it happen. Now I almost always collect it and when packing up just drain it under a bush.

 

[LuckyDan]

I'd venture a guess that no one associated with this Forum will state that they have too much storage. I also would guess that few will state they have really adequate storage. My personal guess as to why most people leave the smaller type slide ins for the Lances, Hosts etc. or the trailers is needing more room or wanting more amenities.

To answer your question more specifically, For myself I can easily get my stuff packed and stored for a week trip or maybe more. When my two teenage sons and all our fishing/rockhounding/hiking stuff is involved it takes some mission critical thought and general crap management. The sleeping bags, food, and clothing part is easy and non intrusive. It's the fishing poles, waders, float tubes for three, and such that gets problematic. Truth is I had to do the same thing with my previous RV, a Tioga motorhome but now I do it on less fuel and with better access to those places interesting to me.

 

[craig333]

I'm gonna disagree with a few people here, but if we were all the same that'd be pretty eerie. I like having onboard water. I use it all the time. Most probably out of the little spigot in the outside of the camper. Grey water container? I probably shouldn't say what happens to mine. Table, tossed it. Ice box, tossed it (my new 12v refer/freezer is supposed to show up anytime tonight). Heater a must. I have the forced air furnace and the wave3, see my opinions on that in another year.

I'm surprised no has mentioned the fantastic fan. Gotta have one (mine just quit one me /grrr but they're easy to fix).

Hot water heater hasn't that much use so far, but I think I'll really come to like that yet especially the outside shower.

Lights are another thing. I'm happy with flourescents. Work great. But I probably have more battery power than most (one in the camper, two in the truck) and don't spend weeks in one spot. Nothing against leds I just don't think the performance justifies the price, yet. And yes, definitely want some outside lighting.

 

[Desert Rancher]

Maintenance-Get some of this and start taking care of the vinyl.

http://www.303products.com/shop303/index.cfm/category/65/303-aerospace-protectant.cfm

 

[Overland Hadley]

I'm vacillating between stripping out the ice box and single incandescent light and just using the same cooler I've used for years (an awesome and big one) and portable battery powered LED lights (LED lantern, book light and head lamps). I'd have essentially no "features" to speak of. Hmmph.


I am going to build a camper along the "no features" line. But with a large sink and stove top, so it will have features, just not what most people have. I will not have a battery.

The details of my build plans are located here. The first post is updated with direct links to build plans.

 

[trasko]

I'm loving all the advice. I am going to to have to do somewhat of an overhaul to get things to my standards. Mainly getting rid of the old, stained ceiling fabric and pop-up fabric as well as replacing the bed materials.

I'm thinking what would be wisest is to fix up the fundamentals, but then stop there and use it for awhile to see what I want.

Desert Rancher: thanks for the tip on the 303. I expect to be replacing the pop-up fabric and I'll be sure to care for it once I do. Do you use the 303 anywhere else?

Overland Hadley: I read through your thread a few days ago. Awesome! I've got an early 90s diesel F250 so weight and size don't concern me too much (too late for that). I do like your eye for simplicity, though. I really dig your idea of using candle light for night time illumination. I have LED lanters and head lamps, but I want something fixed as a part of the camper. Candles sound like a great solution.

 

[pods8]

* Sink / water: perhaps not needed so much solo or for short trips; Good for longer trips or trips w/ family. A foot-actuated switch sounds like a great idea.

* Fridge: lots of diff. opinions. A few say cooler is simplest. There seems to be a debate between 3-way fridges and 12v compressor types. I didn't know about this before. Looks like 3-ways take less energy to run but compressor types have better cooling and don't have the strong sensitivity to not being level. Is there is a difference in price between the 3-way and the compressor types?

I am concerned about storage space. Do people find that they have enough for their camping activities? I am spoiled by throwing tons of sleeping bags, tents, chairs, cooking stuff and whatall in the bed of the truck and hitting the road.


You can either get a foot switch or this combo faucet/pump has a switch built into the faucet: http://www.americanrvcompany.com/Shurflo-94-009-20-Electric-Faucet-100-Pump-Combo-Kit-94-009-21-Trailer-Camper-RV_p_1012.html

3ways are decent with a relighter on the pilot but need to be level and some don't like to drive with them on propane. 12V compressor fridges use battery power but as long as you have a decent capacity they aren't too bad and they can run while tilted, etc. They also have the ability to freeze things if you set them low enough. Prices range depending on size and such, but entry level 3ways are around $500 if I recall and that is sorta the ball park for compressor fridges. ARB/ENGEL cost more like $700 range for 46qt sizing or you can go cheaper edgestar which go on sale for around $400 for that size often.

The extended cab on my truck helps w/ the storage.

 

[Overland Hadley]

Do you use the 303 anywhere else?



303 is a great product. I use it on everything that I can.


Overland Hadley: I read through your thread a few days ago. Awesome! I've got an early 90s diesel F250 so weight and size don't concern me too much (too late for that). I do like your eye for simplicity, though. I really dig your idea of using candle light for night time illumination. I have LED lanters and head lamps, but I want something fixed as a part of the camper. Candles sound like a great solution.


I am glad my build plans could be of some help.

I am excited about the idea of using candles, they have such a nice light. And I will be changing the campers light fixtures to LED for when I need a quick bit of light.

 

[cwdtmmrs]

What Dsrtrat said about defining what you want the camper for is the most important advice. I have a mid nineties Ranger II on a 1986 Toyota Turbo 4x4 and it is perfect for me. I do not "camp" and have never used a campground. I hunt and fish, usually by myself and am only in the camper at night to eat and sleep. I am rarely in the same spot for more than a day or two at a time so the camper battery stays charged fine through the constant duty 12v 40amp solenoid (I don't like isolators) from the truck's alternator. I carry a Honda EX350 generator that weights 19lbs and is not much larger than a lunchbox that will plug directly into the wiring harness to charge the battery or run the accessories just in case, but I have never used it for that purpose. I do not need or want solar panels. I carry a 12ft canoe on the roof most of the time. Like Craig 333, I also would not be without on board water and the electric pump with the switch on the faucet. I use the outside drain to fill water bottle and canteens all the time. I like the 3 way fridge as well and as stated previously, the only issues are getting it level and turning it down at night so food will not freeze. I do not care about ice or ice cream when I am in the outback. For me...meals, the simpler, the better and boiling water for freeze dried meals and instant drinks are fine, although I do carry a SS Magma marine grill that simply slides into brackets under either side of the camper under the "wings" in case I want to fry fish or whatever. I have not had any issues with the forced air furnace and mine is pretty quiet, but I do not use it when I am sleeping unless the temps are below freezing. A good sleeping bag fixes that. I do use the table and would not want a dinette. I like the couch for sleeping with the top in the down position on really cold nights to keep the forced air furnace from running non-stop. Storage is not a problem if you leave the stuff at home you do not need. I can pack everything except for water for a 2-3 week elk hunt and not be cluttered. The only thing I insist on is a hot shower and carry a Zodi #6185 with a custom enclosure so I can shower inside the camper. That's it it for me. Good luck!

CWD

 

[Accrete]

my wife and i are in the process of a van build. we recently sold our tacoma & trailer so my thoughts shared in this post relate to that first combo and what we are carrying over into the van build.

water: the off road capable traler had full amenities, including a shower BUT...
we used it year round so we didn't like the idea of having to winterize it so we instead used hot water from a kettle to fill a 1 gallon garden sprayer for shower use instead of the built in hot-water heater and plumbing.
For drinking/cooking water we have always preferred small bottled water containers.
===bottom line for us: no built in blumbing. will continue to utilize 3.5 gal reliance water containers (for showers) + bottled drinking water.

grey water: in the forestry system in the PNW it is allowed to dump bio-soap/shower-use-only water in the forest. We use paper plates and pack out our trash, so no food stuffs and no kitchen sink or "dish water".

cooking: we utilized the inside cook surface (propane stove) for boiling water for coffee/tea in the mornings. all other _cooking_ was done outside on a coleman stove.
We will keep it simple inside the van and most likely just use our Heatmate 5200 alcohol stove/heater to both boil water in the morning and take the chill off the air.

heating: (see cooking above)

electrical: after research, i've decided to not utilize solar as we have never camped in a spot that the sun shines...always shaded, even our home and workplace. We will continue to utilize LED lighting throughout the rv as we did in trailer and also simple reading lamps (such has the neck or head lamps as mentioned by others).

Fantastic Fan: FANTASTIC !

storage: under bed/sofa for us. and simple storage solutions to keep things organized. duffles for clothes, backs for hobby gear (kites or gold panning stuff, etc).

For us, since the van is my wife's daily driver, and we want to always be ready for a spontanious fun outing, we will keep it simple and always ready for a trip down the road.

cheers, and best wishes on your build.

 

[davinski]

Wow what a cool project. Always good to start off with a plan. Wish I had!

Anyhow, let me chime in on a few things others did not....

Mattress: my older hawk has the 2 inch mattresses over the bunk. A bit firm, thin, and not so comfortable. Consider something more comfy if you have not upgraded. Now, I use two REI thick camp mattresses that "self inflate". These are mondo versions of the thermarest and though I have to inflate them, boy are they comfy. A small battery operated pump keeps the moisture out of the mattresses. Don't forget a few nice pillows. I use down comforters or down sleeping bags for covers. Warm and toasty.

Clothing: I pack mine in those travel "cubes" you can get. Keeps every thing organized and I just take these out to the camper and put in the usual place. At the end of a trip, i put all the stuff in a pillowcase, wash, then repack for the next trip. Of course, pack for the season. I have them back in the camper in no time, ready for any adventure. This works for just me, but is great for company as well. Keeps things small and tidy.

Gear storage: I use some bigger "cubes" that are modular to store more stuff. I think it is made by mountainsmith, but others make them. Mine fit right behind the bench seat, along the window and keep things organized. Easy to pack in the house, then take to the truck. Not unlike my clothes.

Insulation: Some relfectix stuff for the windows, pass through, fan, rear window/door. Helps keep some of the cold out. Not so useful with the top up, but works wonders when the top is down and in stealth winter mode.

Dirty floor: This is always an issue and I hate a wet and dirty carpet on the floor. I have a small piece of indoor/outdoor carpet at the door. Only shoes go here. Easy to take out and clean off. In winter, take those lovely down booties to wear. Warm toes = happy camper.

Storage: Always an issue with space. i like to keep the couch and aisle clear to get maximum room in camper. Often, the modular storage stuff goes into the cab of the truck on long stays or at night. Surprising how things can pack down if you try. Still, everyone wishes for more space. Out in the middle of nowhere, I often store stuff under the truck. Some small crates help here. Don't work in crowded places so well. I also have a small locked box in the camper that I can store some valuable things in. Helps keep things away from the little ones. You might guess what you can store there.

OK. that is a few things. Hope it helps. Happy camping.

Dave in Seattle