FWC or ATC - Opinions? Facts?

[Lardogsurf]

Hello! I am looking to purchase our first pop-up camper for my 2010 Toyota Tacoma. I am looking at the FWC Fleet or the ATC Bobcat and can't seem to really find any major differences or advantages/disadvantages of one over the other. I would really appreciate some facts or opinions of one brand over the other. Thank you!

 

[rando]

I am sure others have stronger and more researched opinions, but when I was looking at the two options last year it seemed that ATC was a smaller company with more personal service and willingness to do custom work. FWC is a larger company with more innovative designs, and more modern materials, but unwilling to do custom work. Not that it helps in your decision, but I don't think you can go wrong either way.

 

[Ronin]

I have visited both factories and both have a quality product and friendly staff to assist you. I was going to order an ATC because the cost was going to be substantially less. The only option that ATC didn't offer that I wanted was hot water which I decided I could live without. Also, ATC was willing to build the cabinets to my specifications as well as building a custom wardrobe cabinet to sit to the right of the entry door. FWC will not depart from whatever is standard. Both factories worked on my first 2003 Hawk and both are very competent, but I found that ATC is far more reasonable on their labor costs. Marty actually found a few little problems when he was adding struts to my camper and fixed them for no charge. I ended up finding a 2005 Hawk that was setup pretty much how I wanted my next camper to be so I didn't order the ATC.

Marty and Jeff worked for FWC and the campers that they build are (at least the Panther that I was specing out) pretty much copies of 2003-5 Hawks. IMO the ATC is a little more spartan and practical than FWC which keeps the price down. FWC offers nice optional interior materials and I love the silver spur exterior, but I just can't justify the cost. Service wise you can't beat ATC. If you call ATC about a problem or doing some retrofits you'll usually be talking to Marty, not a service rep. Marty knows ATC as well as FWC inside and out. As you might know, FWC recently had an ownership change. Hopefully, this won't change the great customer interaction that their loyal following has come to expect. If I had to replace my Hawk today there's no doubt in my mind that I'd buy an ATC. Good luck with your decision!!

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Having previously owned a FWC Grandby, and now an ATC Bobcat, I can say that both are well built. What swayed me to purchase an ATC to replace my Grandby was learning about the intense loyalty that ATC owners have for that company, as well as the equally intense loyalty that Marty and Jeff, the owners of ATC have for their customers. Ronin's comment about aesthetics is accurate, and his experience with ATC customer service experience is exactly the same as mine, absolutely the best. I would not hesitate to purchase another ATC if I needed to replace the Bobcat.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Another pleased owner of a 2009 ATC Bobcat.
Looked at both companies in Sept of 2009 and got a price from both.
IMO same equipment FWC/ATC ,ATC was 3K less.
Both campers are very well made I find that the FWC has more "lookie" items than I needed.
Good luck shopping.
Frank

 

[Alley-Kat]

Rando, Ronin, Wandering Sagebrush and Casa Escarlata Robles Too, said it all.

I also went to both companies in 2010.

Didn't get the time of day from FWC.

Went to ATC twice (it was a long drive, might as well spend some time there), spent most of each day observing and talking about things with Marty & Jeff.

On the second trip I was already convinced to order from ATC, and we just worked out the details of what I wanted and didn't want.

I delivered to ATC the following; a FantasticFan for them to install, some left over flooring from a bathroom remodel, some flameproof marine headliner material (I didn't like what they were using at the time), and my marine LED interior lights.

As I was ordering a Bobcat shell, I wanted them to not use the standard staples at the bottom of the interior panels, I wanted them to use the same screws that they use at the top of the interior panels... no problem, I just wanted to completely remove the interior panels to add some 12 VDC wiring in the walls while I was building out the interior of my ATC Bobcat.

I ordered with a bit larger than normal deposit in mid-Fall and received the Bobcat right after Thanksgiving. I had a smile on my face from ear to ear all the way home (my face was tired after a 7 hour drive). When ever I'm camping in my Bobcat, I still have that smile.

So, you know where I stand.

 

[rando]

Another consideration maybe where you live. FWC now has a dealer network where you check out the campers, have it installed, and get service work done, where as I don't think ATC has dealers. If you are not in CA, this may be a factor.

 

[iowahiker]

My understanding is the ATC's are a little, 2", wider. The FWC roof has fewer screws or in my case no screws since I have a "slick top" (i.e. no roof options other than the second roof vent). The lift panels are made of different material (FWC), synthetic versus wood (ATC). The FWC roll over couch/bed has "better" hinges (no legs). FWC's cost more.

 

[Lardogsurf]

Thanks for all the opinions and information from everyone, I really appreciate it. Please keep them coming if you find you have more information to share, I certainly appreciate. I do live in CA so am considering a trip to each factory, maybe spend some time talking with the two companies. My wife really would like the hot water option so if ATC still doesn't offer a hot water heater that may well seal the deal for us. Thank again for all the help!

 

[Alley-Kat]

There are many ways to get a hot water for a shower (I'm assuming that is what you meant, as heating water on the stove is super easy).

Some of the hot water systems are much simpler, thus none of the issues that others have had with an FWC built-in hot water system, i.e., fails to heat water for various reasons (just when you really want it to have hot water) and of course, the maintenance requirements.

Some of the issues reported on WTW.
Over pressurization
No Hot Water
And, there are more just search for them.

I use a Zodi Extreme. I like the simple hand pump or air compressor pressurization, simple to heat, either on the stove or use a 1 lb. propane bottle like on portable camping stoves, and virtually no maintenance.

There are solar heated systems which are even easier than the Zodi Extreme, one which is the common water bag, and a neat one that is a roof mounted pipe/tube, both with gravity feed/pressurization.

Some use one of the shower/toilet privacy tent/hut set-up outdoors with or without some sort of something to stand on to keep the feet from being in the mud. Or, some have adopted my method of an indoor shower using a shortened utility sink as the portable shower base, and use only the curtain part of the shower/toilet privacy tent/hut hanging from the ceiling. Very nice to shower inside in a nice warm, and clean environment (my wife loves it).

 

[Ronin]

There are many ways to get a hot water for a shower (I'm assuming that is what you meant, as heating water on the stove is super easy).

Some of the hot water systems are much simpler, thus none of the issues that others have had with an FWC built-in hot water system, i.e., fails to heat water for various reasons (just when you really want it to have hot water) and of course, the maintenance requirements.

Some of the issues reported on WTW.
Over pressurization
No Hot Water
And, there are more just search for them.

I use a Zodi Extreme. I like the simple hand pump or air compressor pressurization, simple to heat, either on the stove or use a 1 lb. propane bottle like on portable camping stoves, and virtually no maintenance.

There are solar heated systems which are even easier than the Zodi Extreme, one which is the common water bag, and a neat one that is a roof mounted pipe/tube, both with gravity feed/pressurization.

Some use one of the shower/toilet privacy tent/hut set-up outdoors with or without some sort of something to stand on to keep the feet from being in the mud. Or, some have adopted my method of an indoor shower using a shortened utility sink as the portable shower base, and use only the curtain part of the shower/toilet privacy tent/hut hanging from the ceiling. Very nice to shower inside in a nice warm, and clean environment (my wife loves it).

The Zodi Extreme looks like a really cool system. In a prior post I had said that I wish I had hot water. I do a lot of hot springs and all I want to do is wash the sand and at times mud off after I'm done. I use a solar bag shower but I can see many uses for the Zodi. I'm looking into buying one based on your recommendation. Thanks!!

 

[PaulT]

Don't overlook the Nemo Helio pressure shower. http://www.nemoequipment.com/product/?p=Helio%20Pressure%20Shower%20(Grey)

Packs down to about 8.5" diameter by 5.5" tall in its storage bag. Filled, it provides a shower for two (depending on shampooing efficiency

We have inside & outside shower in our Hawk, but typically use the Helio instead as it is more efficient and more convenient. Can use non potable cold water and hot potable water to stretch water tank or just heat non potable water from stream if available. Gives one more options. There may not be a convenient rock for standing near outside shower or if a picnic table is available, lay down on the bench to wash hair. I like choices. Death Valley NP vs. Olympic NP may need different water decisions.

Paul

 

[DanoT]

I use a Hot Juggs pump up 2 gallon portable shower. At around $70 it is half the price of the Zodi.http://www.hotjugz.com/

It looks like the Hot Juggs and Nemo Helio are similar.

 

[DanoT]

I just re-checked the Hot Juggs price and they start at $45.

 

[Alley-Kat]

See... there are a bunch of ways to get a hot shower and all of them are pretty simple.

After all, we're camping, aren't we?

KISS.

Ronin, look at all the other options (mentioned above) as well, you might find one that is absolutely perfect for you!

 

[Ronin]

See... there are a bunch of ways to get a hot shower and all of them are pretty simple.

After all, we're camping, aren't we?

KISS.

Ronin, look at all the other options (mentioned above) as well, you might find one that is absolutely perfect for you!

Great options indeed! I've just lived w/o hot water for so long that I don't think about it except those occasional times when I wish I did. Reading about the problems people have with their built-in water systems makes me glad to not have something else to worry about. Whenever I think I need something for my Hawk I just keep reminding myself that it's just a big tent on wheels !!

 

[rando]

To offer a different view on the hot water - when we ordered our Fleet flatbed we didn't want the hot water heater. However the more we thought about it, we realized that when we do go to sell this, hot water would kind of be expected in a $20k+ camper and even if you never turned it on, an optional extra 6 gallons of water could be useful and is easier than mounting/carrying cans. So we added it to the order with no expectation of ever using it. We have never had a camping set up with any sort of hot water system previously.

However, now that we have Fleet, with hot water, we use the hot water almost every night. We turn it on when we set up and then turn it off once it is hot. We have the outside shower (which we use occasionally), but mostly it is doing dishes and washing our hands and faces in hot running water that makes it attractive. It stays warm enough over night that we have at least lukewarm water in the morning as well. The other benefit that we had not thought of is that during shoulder season and winter when it is going well below freezing you can turn the hot water heater on and it keeps your pump and plumbing warm and toasty and safe from freezing as it is all in the same cabinet. Heating the water morning and night provides enough thermal mass to keep things above freezing all day.

 

[Durango1]

After many years of backpacking and over 5,000 miles of multi-day rafting trips I still get a warm tingle when I flip the switch and hear my hot water heater kick on!

 

[Ronin]

See... there are a bunch of ways to get a hot shower and all of them are pretty simple.

After all, we're camping, aren't we?

KISS.

Ronin, look at all the other options (mentioned above) as well, you might find one that is absolutely perfect for you!

How long have you had your Zodi - any issues? some reviewers having problem with a valve breaking??

 

[Alley-Kat]

I purchased the Zodi Extreme in 2011. I have used it at least 150 times, maybe 200 since then. While I log a lot of my travel details, I don't keep a diary as to when I shower. Once every 4-5 days when camping is what usually happens.

I'm not sure what valve has broken for other people.

The little red handle for water ON/OFF seems a bit small and if a person is treating the unit roughly I could see that as a problem area, however, I take care on my possessions, so no trouble with that little red water ON/OFF valve, which has been operated probably 4x to 6x for each time I set up the Zodi Extreme.

See my build thread (soon, as Photobucket has yet to strike this album with the 3rd party hosting limitation) for the details on how I have the indoor portable shower working. You can wade through the entire build thread (actually two builds in the same camper, the thread has multiple pages, long messages on each page with lots of photos) or simply go to page 2, message #16 where the indoor portable shower description starts and ends at message #19.