Going Greener (It's not easy being green!)

L

Len

Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
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This summer we spotted a Phoenix pop-up in a campground in BC. I googled the make and discovered, to my delight, the world of POP up truck campers. Hmm, low profile, lightweight...I wish we had more of these in Canada!! Since then I've discovered lots on-line, including this great forum!

We're headed toward a 'downsize' from our current Toyota 4Runner and tent trailer, for three reasons: 1. The Runner's pushing 400,000 kms 2. Our kids have grown up and still join us camping, but with their own vehicles/accomodation. 3. We want to find more ways to reduce our 'carbon footprint'.... do more to reduce our contribution to pollution and energy waste.... and save $ on gas, licensing and ferry tolls!

Apparently the 4 cyl Tacoma is an "industry leader" in fuel economy and low emmissions, which is why I'm considering one as my next vehicle. I had a compact truck before (85 Hilux) and it was perfect for my use. We also had a truck camper before, but not on the Hilux, it was an 8ft on an older Chev 3/4 ton. We enjoyed the camper but not the fact that our rig couldn't pass a gas station.

So what I'd like to explore with this forum's community of ingenious, crafty, experienced pop-up camper owners and industry reps is.... can we go greener and still enjoy the relative luxury of truck camper life? I'd like to hear from small truck owners, find out what campers they are using/have tried and specifically what they weigh. I'd like to hear from the industry reps... what do they recommend I look at? Shell model and modify? I have more questions, but I'll save'em for the thread.
 
My rig

I own a 2004 Nissan Frontier 4cyl 2.4L 4x2. I got my ATC Bobcat shell in July and have been really happy with the combination. I put a couch and furnace in the Bobcat and have tried to keep it as light as possible. With cooler, food, water, people, gas, etc. My gvrw is about 4400. I have a max of 4700 on my truck. I put the Firestone Ride-Rites on the rear leafs and run about 50psi to level it. I'm below payload and still get 21mpg fully loaded. The engine is only 143hp and it does slow down a little going up steep hills but on the flats will cruise at 70 easy. Even though a small, compact, the truck has a fully boxed frame which I think helps keep the camper stable, not sure about some of the other compacts. I think I've found the right balance between economy and comfort but I have to be very mindful to keep my load light. Good luck.
 
Len, welcome...you found the right place for camper and truck advice. feul economy is has been discussed on a number of threads here recently...personally, i have a 3.4L V6 and in the flats going around 65 mph i get around 18-22 mpg's fully loaded. i like the v6 and feel that while my gas mileage is a slightly worse and my footprint maybe a little larger, i am pushing the engine less with the larger v6, at least IMO and as a camper rig in the western us, resulting in less wear and tear on the motor. the toyota 4 bangers are awesome, we have an 86 4runner as our town rig and it has a 22RE with 187,000 mi on it and it keeps on tickin'. and we are looking into a new toyota truck with the 4banger for our new town rig. at least with my experience with the 86' i thin kit would be a bit of a dog with the camper and would surly be working overtime in the mountainous terrain in which we live.

lqhikers just upgraded fr a 4 to a 6 cylyinder tacoma and i am sure will chime in...i think in the long run it comes down to considering style of driving, where you are going, the weight and size of your rig, how much you drive and a host of other factors when considering feul economy and the footprint your leaving...just my .02! cheers
 
new member

Welcome to the forum. As to the 4 cyl truck it is a matter of personal choice. As long as you realize that you are not going to go up a hill at full speed with a camper on the back you will be ok. I have had a lot of customers over the years with 4 cyl motors and they learn to adjust. I prefer the 6 cyl myself but again, that is personal choice.

With the small truck you are looking at either a Bobcat model camper from us or an Eagle from FWC. For two people these seem to work fine. They are a bit small but there are a lot of customers out there that are happy campers with them.

The thing to really look at is what type of camping you are planning on doing, where do you plan to go and how do you plan to use the camper. What type of amenities are you looking for in your camper. Taking these into consideration, we can then better tell you if our campers will work for you or not and what amenities should go with your style of camping based on our experience working with other customers using the campers in similar circumstances as yourself.

Feel free to call anytime and we can go over what may or may not work for you in the long run.
 
Len and Eror

Len,
First off, welcome to the board and I think you joined a great group - there is a vast amount of knowledge here. Secondly, for my money I would get the 6 cylinder. I'm no expert, hopefully more knowledgeable minds will chime in, but to be the most efficient an engine should be matched to the work it is going to perform.

A co-worker bought a Ford F-150 with a V-6 thinking he would get better gas mileage. In town, with less work to perform (less drag at lower speeds) he did get slightly better mileage than my Dodge 1500 with the big V-8, however at highway speeds we got about the same... we didn't have enough data to make any firm conclusions. This was with mine carrying a shell (which may have improved my aerodynamics) and about 500 pounds, and his empty. Although a FWC/ATC is low profile and light weight compared to other campers, it is noticeable, especially while acceleratingly on to a highway or going up hill.

For a daily driver with occasional use hauling the camper, the 4 cylinder might be a good choice, but when hauling the camper, I think you'll probably want the extra engine. My FWC stays on the truck full time and I have small economy car as my daily and non-camping weekend car.

the toyota 4 bangers are awesome, we have an 86 4runner as our town rig and it has a 22RE with 187,000 mi on it and it keeps on tickin'. and we are looking into a new toyota truck with the 4banger for our new town rig. at least with my experience with the 86' i thin kit would be a bit of a dog with the camper and would surly be working overtime in the mountainous terrain in which we live.

Erod,
Something to think about... I had an '87 truck with the 22RE and had the following problem and heard the same from several others... The camshaft gear becomes a little loose, resulting in a slight wobble. It eventually wears a hole in the front engine cover and starts to leak water and oil. I didn't know this, but still made it to 200K miles before the timing chain broke. Because it is an interference design (the valves can't be open when the piston is at TDC) the engine was toast. I would probably still own that truck with over 300K miles by now if I had replaced the timing chain and gears... they're great little truck.
 
Len,
First off, welcome to the board and I think you joined a great group - there is a vast amount of knowledge here. Secondly, for my money I would get the 6 cylinder. I'm no expert, hopefully more knowledgeable minds will chime in, but to be the most efficient an engine should be matched to the work it is going to perform.

A co-worker bought a Ford F-150 with a V-6 thinking he would get better gas mileage. In town, with less work to perform (less drag at lower speeds) he did get slightly better mileage than my Dodge 1500 with the big V-8, however at highway speeds we got about the same... we didn't have enough data to make any firm conclusions. This was with mine carrying a shell (which may have improved my aerodynamics) and about 500 pounds, and his empty. Although a FWC/ATC is low profile and light weight compared to other campers, it is noticeable, especially while acceleratingly on to a highway or going up hill.

For a daily driver with occasional use hauling the camper, the 4 cylinder might be a good choice, but when hauling the camper, I think you'll probably want the extra engine. My FWC stays on the truck full time and I have small economy car as my daily and non-camping weekend car.



Erod,
Something to think about... I had an '87 truck with the 22RE and had the following problem and heard the same from several others... The camshaft gear becomes a little loose, resulting in a slight wobble. It eventually wears a hole in the front engine cover and starts to leak water and oil. I didn't know this, but still made it to 200K miles before the timing chain broke. Because it is an interference design (the valves can't be open when the piston is at TDC) the engine was toast. I would probably still own that truck with over 300K miles by now if I had replaced the timing chain and gears... they're great little truck.

ed, well said, i will look into that..thanks for the heads up! cheers!
 
welcome len,future at or fwc owner!

as erod said we just upgraded to a v/6 only because of space with access cab,never had any problems with i-4 eng (2002) yes you do have to take it easy on hills,but it is a small price to pay for the bullet proof engine! i would suggest getting the stick shift if you get a i-4,more control of power in 4x4 usage.as i tear into our new (2008)tacoma 4x4 i'm seeing a loss of the bullet proof build o f the older ones "Composite bed"(plastic)fake screws that are plastic plugs,yes i fell for it and tried to use screw driver to remove!elect connections with no water proofing,dont know what happens in water crossing with the electric locking rear diff.!anyway what ever you end up with drive slow and enjoy "its the journey"
 
Len,

Welcome to the forum. I drive a '02 Tacoma V-6 with an FWC Eagle on full time and love the extra power that engine delivers. The V-6 has excellent low end power for pulling capacity. My previous truck had the same 4 cylinder engine that erod has in the 4 Runner and was adequate, but I would have hated to haul a 850 pound camper around on it. As others have pointed out the larger engine will likely only cost you a couple miles to the gallon even if you drive a faster than the speed limit as I do. I'd sure recommend the larger engine unless you are very patient on the road. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
lq,

Sorry to hear about quality issues in the new Tacoma. I've had Toyota trucks for the last 23 years and have always found them generally great trucks. Oh well, at least the new Tacoma's have the rear doors to the extra cab which I'd love to have in mine. Makes for easy access to the ice chest.
 
Len, welcome.

This might be off-topic a bit, but it does offer some perspective re reducing our carbon footprint. First, as in previous posts I concur with the small engine/big engine in the same model having minimal impact on mpg. As I researched to buy a new truck and camper, getting a powerful V-8 bothered me as well. On Toyota's new Tundra, the smaller 4.7L V-8 gets 15/18 (city/hwy) and the larger 5.7L V-8 gets 14/18. To buy the smaller engine would save only 1mpg in the city and have far less power on demand when hauling a load or climbing hills. A smaller truck/bigger truck like Tacoma vs Tundra makes a significant difference in mpg. Anecdote: this weekend, I averaged 20mpg from Taos, NM to Denver (no camper:() at 70+mph. This truck replaced the vehicle we used to take on road trips, which got 14-16mpg empty or loaded. Net, net we boosted our mpg by some 25%+. Our investment in a tonneau cover probably helped get that additional 2mpg+. I have noticed a significant boost in mpg between 75 and 65, which would be expected.

The off-topic part is that I elected to pay a premium on my electric bill of about $7-15 per month to source 100% of my electricity from wind. That should cut my carbon footprint roughly in half, despite now having two trucks. I guess my point is that I tried to offset what I couldn't or wouldn't compromise.

I wonder if synthetic oil is 'greener' than conventional since you change it less often?
 
Hello Len


Welcome aboard.

The Eagle Model or the Eagle Shell Model might be a nice choice for a smaller truck like the Tacoma.

We have options for solar panel and a deep cycle battery now if you want to be more self-sufficient.

We have been building small campers for the smaller SR5 / Tacoma trucks for years and years.

It looks like you are getting some good advice from other owners as well.

I'm not sure how close you are to the US border, but we will be in Tacoma, Washington for the Fall RV Show Oct. 3 - 8th if you might want to take a day to visit. We will have an Eagle Model there on display, but no shell model.

I also have a new 20 minute DVD I can send you that beter covers all of the campers, models, options, etc.

If you want to e-mail me ... stan@fourwh.com

I would be gald to send out an info pack and DVD (no charge).

Just let me know if I can help with any of your questions.

Talk to you later.



.
 
Thanks Quint. That sounds like it is working well for you. Do you know either the curb weight of your vehicle sans camper or 2 the weight of the camper alone? It may have come with a GVWR stamp. I'd also like to know how high the camper is above the truck (cab roof to camper roof) if that's convenient.
 
erod et al... Thanks so much for the input. Many of you have commented on the tradeoff in size and power when there is minimal fuel difference... I agree. I've been looking at a variety of Tacoma's by year, and the ones where the 4 is very different from the 6 are the years when Toyota really added a lot of displacement e.g. 2.7 to 4L. In those cases the 4 might be a better choice, otherwise, I'd rather the 6 and stress it a bit less. As well, as EdoHart mentioned, you want to match the engine to the work. This I agree with 100% and I don't think I'd be doing my 'carbon footprint' any good by prematurely wearing out vehicles... you don't often hear folks talk about the energy costs of MAKING cars. I'm sure it's great.

Looking at this last point (matching engine to load) from another perspective, I want to engineer a load that is well within the carrying/muscle capacity of the truck... How light can I get my load?
 
as erod said we just upgraded to a v/6 only because of space with access cab,never had any problems with i-4 eng (2002) yes you do have to take it easy on hills,but it is a small price to pay for the bullet proof engine! i would suggest getting the stick shift if you get a i-4,more control of power in 4x4 usage.as i tear into our new (2008)tacoma 4x4 i'm seeing a loss of the bullet proof build o f the older ones "Composite bed"(plastic)fake screws that are plastic plugs,yes i fell for it and tried to use screw driver to remove!elect connections with no water proofing,dont know what happens in water crossing with the electric locking rear diff.!anyway what ever you end up with drive slow and enjoy "its the journey"

It's really good to hear that some folks have had a good experience with a pop up and 4-cyl.. I'm not a fast driver, but I don't like to be dangerously in the way either. 02 must have been a good year.
 
The off-topic part is that I elected to pay a premium on my electric bill of about $7-15 per month to source 100% of my electricity from wind. That should cut my carbon footprint roughly in half, despite now having two trucks. I guess my point is that I tried to offset what I couldn't or wouldn't compromise.

I wonder if synthetic oil is 'greener' than conventional since you change it less often?

brett... hopefully we're all trying to find ways.... good on ya! I've been a hold-out on synthetic oil... just can't bring myself to leave oil in crankcase longer.
 
I'm not sure how close you are to the US border, but we will be in Tacoma, Washington for the Fall RV Show Oct. 3 - 8th if you might want to take a day to visit. We will have an Eagle Model there on display, but no shell model.

I also have a new 20 minute DVD I can send you that beter covers all of the campers, models, options, etc.

If you want to e-mail me ... stan@fourwh.com

I would be gald to send out an info pack and DVD (no charge).

Just let me know if I can help with any of your questions.

Talk to you later.



.

Hi Stan;
Thanks to both you and Ben for Industry side comments... For sure I'll be directing some specific inquiries in the future. Just so you know, I'm a planner... I've got a daughter's wedding to get by before I'll be able to get much attention from the co-decision makers... so I'll be a while.

Interesting about the Tacoma show.... I plan to take my trailer into Montana on the 7th for some fishing.... wish I could make it.:mad: We're pretty close to the US border/ north of Spokane.
 
Mmmmmm.... Lake Koocanusa - :cool:

Montana+017.jpg


Montana+018.jpg
 
Mmmmmm.... Lake Koocanusa - :cool:

Yup, very cool.

Know where the only bridge is over Lake Koocanusa (South of Rexford) from Highway 37 going over to West Kootani and The Yaak?

In early 2009, I will be moving from Michigan to about 7 miles straight east from the bridge. :D :)

Mike
 
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