Hot Water Heater Semi Winterizing

patrkbukly

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
224
Location
Fairplay, CO
Hey folks just a quick question please;

I live at 10,000 feet in the Rockies (Fairplay). I continue to camp i the Granby in the area and we have had some significant cold nights but all has been good as I learn to manage temps in the camper.

That said, the hot water heater worries me on some of the nights that get in single digits so I am going to not use it and keep it drained.

Can't I just turn the kitchen faucet hot water on, run the pump till it spits whats left/empty and I'm done? Or do I need to remove the anode as well?

Thanks in advance.

Patrick
 
I always remove the anode... it's easy and once removed I wash out some of the scale that develops over time. At the end, I know the thing is drained....
 
If you use the rest of your water system in winter, you may need to install some kind of valve to isolate the heater if you plan on draining the heater for winter. If my water system has water in it, so does my water heater, at least that it my assumption. For winter, I drain my entire system and pull the drain plug on the water heater. I use a water jug on the counter in winter.
 
On '16 Hawk the water heater can be drained back into the main water tank and then that drained out of the camper when draining the entire system..

That is the standard set-up...HOWEVER the 6 gallon hot water heater still retains about 1 gallon..my heater instructions and FWC say not to remove the plug on the outside of the heater to further drain it and by my judgement 1 gallon in a 6 gallon water heater has sufficient room to expand and not damage the heater...

Just my take and I could be wrong... :D

Phil
 
Camco sells a drainplug that incorporates a anode to fit hot water drains . it looks like a great way to ensure most of the water is out. Has anyone tried that ?? I have seen them on Amazon.
 
Wallowa said:
On '16 Hawk the water heater can be drained back into the main water tank and then that drained out of the camper when draining the entire system..

That is the standard set-up...HOWEVER the 6 gallon hot water heater still retains about 1 gallon..my heater instructions and FWC say not to remove the plug on the outside of the heater to further drain it and by my judgement 1 gallon in a 6 gallon water heater has sufficient room to expand and not damage the heater...

Just my take and I could be wrong... :D

Phil
Ok but just to clarify, can't I just turn on the pump, turn on the hot water till its spits empty and I have essentially drained the hot water heater (maybe as mentioned leaving no more than a gallon in it)?

Thanks for the replies by the way this is helpful.
 
patrkbukly said:
Ok but just to clarify, can't I just turn on the pump, turn on the hot water till its spits empty and I have essentially drained the hot water heater (maybe as mentioned leaving no more than a gallon in it)?

Thanks for the replies by the way this is helpful.
The water tank and hot water tank will still hold water. You are rolling the dice. I don't think there is such a thing as partial winterizing. I just winterized using the pink RV antifreeze for fresh water systems. I still plan a couple of short trips with 2 gallons of portable water with a spigot. Aweful expensive to replace the system.
 
patrkbukly said:
Ok but just to clarify, can't I just turn on the pump, turn on the hot water till its spits empty and I have essentially drained the hot water heater (maybe as mentioned leaving no more than a gallon in it)?

Thanks for the replies by the way this is helpful.
Not really. The way the plumbing works, the hot water heater is down stream of the pump. When you turn on hot water faucet, the pump pushes cold water into the hot water heater, which pushes hot water out the faucet. The pump doesn't really pump air very well, so once you drain the main tank it won't really push the water out of the hot water heater.

However it is as easy as Wallowa says - just open the hot water drain valve (inside, down below the hot water heater) and then turn on the hot faucet. You will feel air being sucked in the faucet as the water heater drains back into the main water tank. Then close the hot water tank drain valve and fill valve and empty your main water tank and run the pump dry as normal.

I have been doing it this way for 2.5 winters now with no issues and it is easy to refill/rewinterize when you want to use the water system in the winter.
 
Rando, do you ever use pressurized air to assist in clearing your water system? Do you think there is any residual water left in your hot water tank and, if so, is that little bit of any concern? What about pulling the nylon nut on the outside of the water heater; if the heater tank is drained inside using the 'bottom' drain-back-into-main valve, is there any need to remove the nylon nut?

Just winterized my Hawk for the first time; I finished the draining process with some air pressure added at the city water inlet. Managed to get a little water out of the shower and the faucet. I plan to go 'dry', without using any non-toxic antifreeze, gonna carry jugs for winter usage.

Finally, does anyone use any type of anode rod in the water heaters supplied by FWC? I saw what I believe is an anode rod/nut replacement for the nylon nut; think it has a drain petcock built in as well.
 
I do use pressurized air to blow out my outdoor shower, and I added shutoff valves to isolate that in the winter, and it stays isolated all winter.

I haven't needed to blow out the rest of the system, but I guess there is no reason not to. I have not removed the nylon nut on the water heater, just opened the drain back valve and the hot water faucet to let air in as the water drains out. I wanted to keep the process as simple as possible as we winterize/dewinterize at least half a dozen times a year.
 
A suggestion I would have for Stan on the hot water heaters would be;
#1) The door you open exposing the pump should also expose the valves for the hot water heater. In my Granby there is plenty of room to do so.
(It is also odd to me that the door accesses the pump perfectly. There is nothing to do to the pump, yet the valves in which you must access and manipulate as you use your camper are behind a panel that does not open).

#2) The inside of the door should have a simple sticker something like this;
lDdUD2PKPBTvjJySC2OH-9qMnGGKpkOlgCw-8htZOYzOePDza1xCAGObCZ9xOzQD1gZ1DL9z0LkjhZP7GnZG3B9blSx8ngurszYkqyVbsCIg6NOWPcsO2FyLwHnZRNZdv2zP9ePp3oI7CyNY9UBpiGp80sGEDEyx6PR322bKqKfRKSE8-Y5GUzL4lvceWLxh2hdsNeSVLtb6SJ5NO8bCBqrbtOJ1U6xcZZD02K2sQOyap2kusI7Q_X6s_EAQJxkYi8UKXgvGP6tiJE5KBuwNt4Q7nBiTdSeQZ0kHs2JGRMuuX_0tf2SYHrJRW-gBMFpJ3yZFAVn_9rRAwy7tdWw1-UkdL_wuA3FhlNdngZui3YSUN695Yh71tslfHKC67noKqfwO1PpkcdJNLh9VfQhswkwB17SmM0x-yctDyfC8rFxPuR6gkThe12eOIh_vZsPL6pacfN2BfRsiqzjhfAlxQdEcTnGMlo1fDsGyyXFCXeO_zxcbLXZc6gcxtuuaopOGLFSBvn9W66-3lekQkAq_MKZLpxbBWJZGicdt6FrWzshcZW-1faoACTgS2C4yZm8-u5lrsJ6ycKmR3YTZ-nXEQQkLp0JEvSErsha9XjRDHL9wFke4tl3HQzo34vXNP5s=w720-h540-no


or

-mW5rRCNtMgDo84qWwhJ7u3fDuKoIXO0MZNwaHqporCGHtVZCX_ZZyWA860izdjK9DTe13859LEGM06tUhAMFJptzv7fcOQNon1e87Nmp3vubrvtyYyllCcwPpObCNnp9JQ7OXDzmwT9AuxWMwKJkrcym9LuKfxyPeBe-_8XEdtqmjKsaQLFRH8GWMeBVwwcsx6QhCuU-Fk4DoOFq-KmC0fJLx5OvLdhs63gTYCBVP_UibWR_Vf7tGUZpubJ0zpdxIpDgtKn--eO5gvd57ell827dZKQREeCJy-ba2WD0HURG9Jh2EI0t8iPVcKPiqMLGunNeCnirE17cuZi7x69tb-975Mj8qElVs5nhHZjznGUQRYJDz87Kt4EyUS-Xxx0c4xNH9_CUs0f8hOmvYTQAJJDSUdrvAla-i428-0fSJqCSNH6rG7T3XAIFgQqdInTWTsHnT5txDVcXO7sQ_lIZEmrBh19mw6KNV5K65bxRoHNvYe-xI5qVDVLZagW_g_QD_sU67N-epnup6CiU4t9-ik1cYRsBhypmJp-N3PQEMlvyY_9zCxvlF_-bZSBwrHtbhxtxLHmDPFGXcllRGHJ9or98uZZ6MnHtQXNptUzIFs_aPziD7dAYGaYxN0Q-Fs=w720-h540-no
 
rando said:
I do use pressurized air to blow out my outdoor shower, and I added shutoff valves to isolate that in the winter, and it stays isolated all winter.

I haven't needed to blow out the rest of the system, but I guess there is no reason not to. I have not removed the nylon nut on the water heater, just opened the drain back valve and the hot water faucet to let air in as the water drains out. I wanted to keep the process as simple as possible as we winterize/dewinterize at least half a dozen times a year.

That white plastic plug accessed on the outside of the heater is exactly the one that Atwood and FWC say NOT to remove...
 
patrkbukly said:
A suggestion I would have for Stan on the hot water heaters would be;
#1) The door you open exposing the pump should also expose the valves for the hot water heater. In my Granby there is plenty of room to do so.
(It is also odd to me that the door accesses the pump perfectly. There is nothing to do to the pump, yet the valves in which you must access and manipulate as you use your camper are behind a panel that does not open).

#2) The inside of the door should have a simple sticker something like this;
lDdUD2PKPBTvjJySC2OH-9qMnGGKpkOlgCw-8htZOYzOePDza1xCAGObCZ9xOzQD1gZ1DL9z0LkjhZP7GnZG3B9blSx8ngurszYkqyVbsCIg6NOWPcsO2FyLwHnZRNZdv2zP9ePp3oI7CyNY9UBpiGp80sGEDEyx6PR322bKqKfRKSE8-Y5GUzL4lvceWLxh2hdsNeSVLtb6SJ5NO8bCBqrbtOJ1U6xcZZD02K2sQOyap2kusI7Q_X6s_EAQJxkYi8UKXgvGP6tiJE5KBuwNt4Q7nBiTdSeQZ0kHs2JGRMuuX_0tf2SYHrJRW-gBMFpJ3yZFAVn_9rRAwy7tdWw1-UkdL_wuA3FhlNdngZui3YSUN695Yh71tslfHKC67noKqfwO1PpkcdJNLh9VfQhswkwB17SmM0x-yctDyfC8rFxPuR6gkThe12eOIh_vZsPL6pacfN2BfRsiqzjhfAlxQdEcTnGMlo1fDsGyyXFCXeO_zxcbLXZc6gcxtuuaopOGLFSBvn9W66-3lekQkAq_MKZLpxbBWJZGicdt6FrWzshcZW-1faoACTgS2C4yZm8-u5lrsJ6ycKmR3YTZ-nXEQQkLp0JEvSErsha9XjRDHL9wFke4tl3HQzo34vXNP5s=w720-h540-no


or

-mW5rRCNtMgDo84qWwhJ7u3fDuKoIXO0MZNwaHqporCGHtVZCX_ZZyWA860izdjK9DTe13859LEGM06tUhAMFJptzv7fcOQNon1e87Nmp3vubrvtyYyllCcwPpObCNnp9JQ7OXDzmwT9AuxWMwKJkrcym9LuKfxyPeBe-_8XEdtqmjKsaQLFRH8GWMeBVwwcsx6QhCuU-Fk4DoOFq-KmC0fJLx5OvLdhs63gTYCBVP_UibWR_Vf7tGUZpubJ0zpdxIpDgtKn--eO5gvd57ell827dZKQREeCJy-ba2WD0HURG9Jh2EI0t8iPVcKPiqMLGunNeCnirE17cuZi7x69tb-975Mj8qElVs5nhHZjznGUQRYJDz87Kt4EyUS-Xxx0c4xNH9_CUs0f8hOmvYTQAJJDSUdrvAla-i428-0fSJqCSNH6rG7T3XAIFgQqdInTWTsHnT5txDVcXO7sQ_lIZEmrBh19mw6KNV5K65bxRoHNvYe-xI5qVDVLZagW_g_QD_sU67N-epnup6CiU4t9-ik1cYRsBhypmJp-N3PQEMlvyY_9zCxvlF_-bZSBwrHtbhxtxLHmDPFGXcllRGHJ9or98uZZ6MnHtQXNptUzIFs_aPziD7dAYGaYxN0Q-Fs=w720-h540-no
The valves to control flow and to drain my hot water tank are right beside the pump in my front dinette 2017

Hawk. Easily accessible and simply marked in the diagram in my owners manual.
 
trikebubble said:
The valves to control flow and to drain my hot water tank are right beside the pump in my front dinette 2017
Hawk. Easily accessible and simply marked in the diagram in my owners manual.
Mine are not.
 
I think the 'sticker' idea is excellent - I may just make my own in the future.

I'm satisfied that the water system designed by FWC is fairly easy to make 'frost proof' by following the instructions provided by FWC. The sink and (outside) shower seem to be the 'highest' points of the system, so draining water from them is simple. Everything drains back into the main tank, which is emptied by the rear drain petcock. Even the inside drain for the water heater seems to drain 'downward', implying that the water heater is truly empty. I have, however, seen videos in which users remove the outer (nylon) drain plug to facilitate winterizing; not sure why that method is discouraged but it is likely related to the difficulty of accessing the nylon nut and/or the likelihood of damaging other components in the removal process. I've concluded that a little water left in the HW tank is not going to damage the tank or associated components, hope that's correct!

Rando's process of winterizing/dewinterizing several times a year is likely the process I will use as well, I'm thinking that the designed-in ease of draining the system is FWC's way of making winterizing simple.
 
deezlgeezr said:
I think the 'sticker' idea is excellent - I may just make my own in the future.

I'm satisfied that the water system designed by FWC is fairly easy to make 'frost proof' by following the instructions provided by FWC. The sink and (outside) shower seem to be the 'highest' points of the system, so draining water from them is simple. Everything drains back into the main tank, which is emptied by the rear drain petcock. Even the inside drain for the water heater seems to drain 'downward', implying that the water heater is truly empty. I have, however, seen videos in which users remove the outer (nylon) drain plug to facilitate winterizing; not sure why that method is discouraged but it is likely related to the difficulty of accessing the nylon nut and/or the likelihood of damaging other components in the removal process. I've concluded that a little water left in the HW tank is not going to damage the tank or associated components, hope that's correct!

Rando's process of winterizing/dewinterizing several times a year is likely the process I will use as well, I'm thinking that the designed-in ease of draining the system is FWC's way of making winterizing simple.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Couple of points...first I am sure to some degree the plumbing and components in the FWC water system has evolved, changed, over the years..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Having said that even a cursory look inside the cabinets where the plumbing is visible makes the valving and movement of water within your system obvious. In my opinion a diagram is totally unnecessary, the pipes and valves make the options apparent. The outside shower, which we have, does not on ours have a pathway to drain it...Rondo did what I need to do is put in a valve to isolate the shower and allow draining...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]On my water heater the manual states that all but about one gallon can be drained back into the FWC main tank...that manual also warns against removal of the white plastic plug mentioned in this thread; why FWC and Atwood say not to remove it is at best speculative...either way if that one gallon is in a 6 gallon tank and it freezes solid the ice expansion will not damage the 6 gallon tank as you mentioned...same, same with main water tank and whatever water stays in it.[/SIZE]

Sink drain "trap" is something I never addressed, but assume that since it is open on both ends expansion of ice will not damage it...just no certain on that.

The water pump and water pump filter need to be drained as well...all this assumes a hard freeze and ice forming inside the camper.

Plumbing and electrical wiring are not my area of expertise or areas that I am skilled in...just a duffer! :D

And all my assumptions could be wrong.........

Phil
 
"I'm satisfied that the water system designed by FWC is fairly easy to make 'frost proof' by following the instructions provided by FWC. "

Yes I am right with you here and I am not necessarily complaining but rather pointing out that the manual provides the following instructions;
Step 1: Drain the 20 Gallon Freshwater Tank and Drain Line
The 20 Gallon Freshwater Reservoir is usually located under the camper's front seat area (near the front wall of the
camper), and the exterior drain valve is located on the rear / exterior wall of the camper (outside), usually near the
camper entry door. To drain the 20 gallon fresh water tank, make sure your truck is parked level, or better yet parked
on a slight incline. Parking the truck on a slight incline will help to ensure gravity to completely drain the water out the
fresh water tank. Next, open the hot and cold water valves on the sink faucet and leave them open. Next, open (twist)
the exterior drain valve on the rear wall of the camper and leave it open until the 20 gallon fresh water tank is drained
and water stops coming out. If your 20 gallon water tank is full, the draining process might take quite a while. After
the main water tank is empty, leave the small tank drain cock on the outside of the camper “OPEN”.
Step 2: Open the Low Water Valve.
Open the low point water value inside your kitchen cabinets (if your camper is equipped with it). Leave it open.
Drain Cock
Open
Open
Four Wheel Campers, LLC.
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Step 3: Drain the Hot Water Tank
Be sure to first release any built up pressure in the hot water heater before draining it. This can be accomplished by
opening the hot water faucet at the kitchen sink to release any built up pressure (Note: The hot & cold faucets should
already be open if you have been following Step 1 & 2 from above). Drain the Hot Water Heater (6 Gallon Hot Water
Tank) by opening the hot water valve at the kitchen sink (should be open already) and then opening the low point
water drain valve inside your kitchen cabinets (step 2 above). The water in the hot water tank should slowly drain
down & out into your 20 gallon fresh water tank, as long as the fresh water tank is already empty. As the hot water
heater tank starts to drain, you will probably also notice water start to drain out of the 20 gallon main water tank drain
cock located on the rear / outside of the camper.
Step 4: Drain the Shower Head and Hose
Turn off your electric water pump. Make sure the low point water drain value inside the camper is “open”. Then open
the access door to the exterior & interior hot water shower compartments (if equipped). Insert & connect the shower
wand & hose. Extend the shower hose until it is straight. With the hose straightened, position the shower head so
that it is lower than where the hose is attached to the shower compartment. This will allow gravity to drain the water
out for you. Next, open both the cold and hot water valves to allow any trapped water to exit. Leave the hot & cold
water valves “OPEN”, but disconnect the shower wand & hose, shake the shower wand & hose to release any
possible trapped water from it, and put it way for storage.
Step 5: Drain the Water Pump
Run the electric Water Pump for approximately 15 to 20 seconds, or as long as water is flowing out from the sink
faucet, with both the hot & cold water at the kitchen sink valves opened. This should help to remove as much
remaining water from the system as possible. Turn the electric water pump “OFF”, and leave both the hot & cold
faucets on the sink “OPEN” position so that any excess water that could potentially freeze will have room for
expansion (instead of cracking a water line or fittings).
Four Wheel Campers, LLC.
53
Step 6: Add Non-Toxic Antifreeze (optional)
If you are going to add Non-toxic RV Antifreeze to your camper water system for possible freezing waiter
temperatures, you will need to add the correct amount of properly prepared “non-toxic” RV Antifreeze and water
solution to back into your 20 gallon fresh water tank by pouring it into the fresh water filler port located on the outside
of the camper. See antifreeze manufacturer's Water / Antifreeze mixture recommendations. Once you have a few
gallons of properly mixed water/anti-freeze in the fresh water holding tank, turn on your electric water pump. Open
the cold water valve at your sink faucet and run until you can see some of the antifreeze/water mixture flow from the
sink faucets. Close the sink faucets. Next, operating just one shower fixture at a time, hook up both the inside shower
wand & outside shower wand (if equipped) and turn on the electric water pump. Open the cold water valve, and run
for a few moments until you can see some of the anti-freeze mixture come out. Close both shower water valves and
disconnect the shower wand. Once disconnected, drain the shower wand & shower hose before storing it away.
Drain the kitchen sink (if needed) and replace the cap on the sink's gray water spout (exterior of camper).
Once you have drained the hot water heater, drained the 20 gallon fresh water tank, introduced
the non-toxic RV antifreeze, then go back through and open your sink faucets are open, open
the shower valves, open the hot water tank valve inside the cabinets. Open the low water valve
inside the cabinets, and open the plastic drain cock on the rear wall of the camper. This will
allow any possible trapped water a place to move freely (instead of expanding outward and
possibly cracking a water line) if it were to freeze

Which I believe could be reduced to a set of procedures listed in simple visual language on one small simple page.
Remember the early Mac commercials showing the user manual for IBM PC's that was thick like an old phonebook? then they would drop the tiny pamphlet with a mac. I guess I'm just thinking that would be a good direction and probably even broaden their sales.
 
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