House battery questions

[DYNOBOB]

Our new (to us) 2010 Hawk has I'm assuming the original Deka AGM 79ah @ 20hr battery. I don't know how well it was cared for (kept charged) in the past, I do know the PO hadn't used camper in 2yrs.
- Is this considered a deep cycle battery?
- Is there a typical life expectancy on these?
- I unscrewed a couple of the caps and it looks pretty dry in there, does anyone add a little electrolyte/water to theirs? I know some of the gas escapes when opened up, but I also know boiled dry batteries are dead ducks...
- One cap vent is bubbling/releasing a small spray just around the vent, the rest of the vents are dry.
- The fridge ran on house battery for a couple hours Sunday and it pulled the battery down to ~11v (one led lit on the panel). Does that seem normal or should I be shopping for a battery?
- The battery was not charged last night and is still at 12.8v today.

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[cerve137]

If you are able to access the battery and look inside, it's not AGM from my experience. If your battery is inside the camper, you owe it to yourself to swap to AGM, in my humble opinion. No chance for leaks, spills or off-gassing into the camper. They just perform better and you will know its history then.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

I would add the IQ4 smart charger to your IOTA 30amp Power Converter inside the camper.

http://www.amazon.com/IOTA-Engineering-IQ4-Smart-Charger/dp/B0030G7ZHM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459882598&sr=8-1&keywords=iota+IQ4+smart+charger

The DEKA battery should typically be a sealed, deep cycle, AGM (glass mat) battery.

With a smart charger and the camper plugged in, the master kill switch turned on (pulled out), it might (might?) bring the battery back a little.

If the battery is shot, it would be best to replace it.

Something like the Exide, DEKA, Sears Die Hard Platinum --- "Sealed AGM Deep Cycle Battery".

If you run a 3-way refrigerator (AC/DC/Propane Refrigerator) on 12 volt battery, it will be dead in just a few hours, even if you have a brand new battery.

If your refrigerator can run on propane, it is always best to use the propane mode.

Hope this helps.



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[JaSAn]

Our new (to us) 2010 Hawk has I'm assuming the original Deka AGM 79ah @ 20hr battery. I don't know how well it was cared for (kept charged) in the past, I do know the PO hadn't used camper in 2yrs.
- Is this considered a deep cycle battery?

A model number would be helpful. A deep cycle 12V battery should weigh > 100 lbs. (lots of lead in there).

- Is there a typical life expectancy on these?
- I unscrewed a couple of the caps and it looks pretty dry in there, does anyone add a little electrolyte/water to theirs? I know some of the gas escapes when opened up, but I also know boiled dry batteries are dead ducks...

If electrolyte is below top of plates some damage has occurred. I check mine (2 X GC2) once a month, check specific gravity, add distilled water as needed (shouldn't need to add water unless equalizing or if you are overcharging the batteries).

- One cap vent is bubbling/releasing a small spray just around the vent, the rest of the vents are dry.
- The fridge ran on house battery for a couple hours Sunday and it pulled the battery down to ~11v (one led lit on the panel). Does that seem normal or should I be shopping for a battery?
- The battery was not charged last night and is still at 12.8v today.

Voltage is a poor indicator of battery health. Best = C/20 test. Very Good = Specific Gravity should be 1.275 (temperature compensated) or better. OK = battery voltage measured with voltmeter 24+ hours after full charge. Indicator lights = usually inaccurate.

I disagree with cerve137 on necessity of AGM batteries. My reasons:

• Myself and many others i know have used flooded lead acid batteries in living compartments for years with no issues. (Some people have allergies or sensitivities that FLAs can affect.) YMMV
• FLA ~ half the price of comparable AGM.
• ability to check specific gravity.
• ability to check and add fluid as needed. Water saver caps are available for FLA batteries if you have a charging system that causes fluid loss.
• more forgiving of charging irregularities.
• can accept a more aggressive equalization.
• AGMs do vent gasses but at a higher internal pressure differential than FLAs. Once lost, you cannot replenish AGMs fluid.

More than you ever want to know about batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com

jim

 

[DYNOBOB]

The DEKA battery should typically be a sealed, deep cycle, AGM (glass mat) battery.


If you run a 3-way refrigerator (AC/DC/Propane Refrigerator) on 12 volt battery, it will be dead in just a few hours, even if you have a brand new battery.

If your refrigerator can run on propane, it is always best to use the propane mode.

Hope this helps.



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Thanks Stan, Mine is definitely a Deka AGM, I wasn't sure if it's a deep cycle.

I feel better knowing it's normal for the fridge to draw the house battery down pretty quick.

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[DYNOBOB]

If you are able to access the battery and look inside, it's not AGM from my experience. If your battery is inside the camper, you owe it to yourself to swap to AGM, in my humble opinion. No chance for leaks, spills or off-gassing into the camper. They just perform better and you will know its history then.

I had to remove a small spot of silicone to be able to unscrew a cap.

I disagree with cerve137 on necessity of AGM batteries. My reasons:

• Myself and many others i know have used flooded lead acid batteries in living compartments for years with no issues. (Some people have allergies or sensitivities that FLAs can affect.) YMMV
• FLA ~ half the price of comparable AGM.
• ability to check specific gravity.
• ability to check and add fluid as needed. Water saver caps are available for FLA batteries if you have a charging system that causes fluid loss.
• more forgiving of charging irregularities.
• can accept a more aggressive equalization.
• AGMs do vent gasses but at a higher internal pressure differential than FLAs. Once lost, you cannot replenish AGMs fluid.

More than you ever want to know about batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com

jim

Thanks Jim, You can never know too much. I actually just researched this a couple months ago for the 6yr old AGM on my Husqvarna bike. I read then that the "liquid" in a AGM gasifies and then condenses with normal use. Since my FWC Deka was obviously out-gassing thru the cap vent I wasn't too worried about opening. On the Husky I did add a fair bit of distilled water and it was absorbed. I'm no stranger to flooded bats - have about 2 dozen to keep track of here on the farm...Ram batteries are 11yrs old now and my Powerstroke batts lasted 12yrs - only because I don't let them get dry.

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[Wallowa]

I had to remove a small spot of silicone to be able to unscrew a cap.



Thanks Jim, You can never know too much. I actually just researched this a couple months ago for the 6yr old AGM on my Husqvarna bike. I read then that the "liquid" in a AGM gasifies and then condenses with normal use. Since my FWC Deka was obviously out-gassing thru the cap vent I wasn't too worried about opening. On the Husky I did add a fair bit of distilled water and it was absorbed. I'm no stranger to flooded bats - have about 2 dozen to keep track of here on the farm...Ram batteries are 11yrs old now and my Powerstroke batts lasted 12yrs - only because I don't let them get dry.

.

OK..the old man [me] here is confused. 'AGM battery on the Husky', or anywhere, is a sealed battery. But you added water? None of the AGM batteries that I have used have anyway to add fluid; sealed. I use one in my BMW GSA since all riding is off-road and the bike tends to lay down for naps...hence no acid spilled during these naps. Also the AGM is less prone to internal damage due to shocks; such as motocross racing or in a FWC pounding through the boonies or my bike augering in during a rest period.

We live in an arid part of the country and evaporation from a lead/acid battery requires constant attention to keep acid/water level above the plates. Not so with the AGM and most quality battery tenders will run the requisite types of current programs to keep the AGM charged.

In the end this will be a Chevy vs Ford decision; whatever works for you. Your money your call.

Phil

 

[DYNOBOB]

Both of the batteries I'm referencing are AGM. The Husky is the OEM and has the round rubber plugs that are joined in a strip. It is not obvious at first glance that they are removable, but with a pick tool you can get a section started and slide a small screwdriver under. Looking inside cells you see the white glass mat material. The FWC Deka says AGM on the sticker and has screw off caps. I have seen AGMs that you can't access though.

 

[daverave]

Dumbass, semi-newbie question and this seems as good a thread as any to ask it:

If I am running my 3-way Dometic refrigerator on 12v in my 2016 Hawk while driving, does the refrigerator draw power faster than the standard FWC house battery is being recharged? I know from experience that the 12v will drain the refrigerator while camping in a matter of hours but I would think that this is not as much of a problem while driving.

Cheers, Dave (headed for a warm week in central Nevada on Sunday)

 

[Beach]

Your truck should have no problem charging the house battery while the fridge is running on 12v. Most all trucks these days have a big enough alternator to do the job. Fridge on 12v will affect the amount of charge your house battery will receive over a given amount of time. House battery charging will also be affected by the amount of charge the vehicle requires to get fully charged. If the house battery is way down and you have a short drive and want max charge applied I would run the fridge on propane while driving. I always run on propane when off grid or driving.

 

[fireball]

When did FWC start including the IQ4 as standard equipment?


Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

DynoBob,
Our Decka AGM started leaking after about 3.5 years use. Warranty 2 years plus FWC extends warranty 12 months.
If you take it to Sears or your mechanic they will be able to put it on a device to check its condition.

Replace with a sealed AGM. You don't want a battery that vents into the " cabin".

 

[PaulT]

When did FWC start including the IQ4 as standard equipment?
Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West

For a point of reference, my July 2014 Hawk came with the IQ4.

Paul

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Daverave,

A 3-way (absorption) draws 12.5 amps per hour on battery. As I understand the alternator should run the fridge and maintain the temperature AFTER the 110 volt cooled it off in 80* temperature. If its hotter it may not hold temperature. As Stan reports "Absorptions" are most efficient running on propane or 110 volt. Purpose of running on battery is to NOT have an open flame because of the fire danger in an accident.

My experience with 3-ways is from my motorhome and large Lance campers days which we had in the '80's and '90's. I have "heard" the new propane emergency shut-off systems make running on propane while driving is much safer. I would check with Stan at FWC to confirm. - stan@fourwh.com.

You would have to check the amps output of the alternator to see if output is high enough to run fridge and charge the battery. or have a battery monitor system - Trimetric model 2030-RV or Zamp or that displays amps - charging and dis-charging and percentage of full.

 

[DYNOBOB]

When did FWC start including the IQ4 as standard equipment?

My 2010 did not come with the IQ4 but has the place to plug it in.


I did end up opening all my caps and added water to all the cells except one. Curiously, the cell at one end already had liquid visible around the glass mat material. This was the cell that had vented a small amount of spray through the vent in the cap.

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[Ronanmd1]

My 2013 (Sept) did not come with the IQ4 but has the place to plug it in. I have since added it.

 

[daverave]

We got back to Sacto last evening. We thought our trip to central Nevada was fairly hot until we got here and back-to-back 105* days. Oh well, comes with the territory.

Anyway, back on topic, we found that the 3-way Dometic fridge had a hard time maintaining a steady/safe temperature in the basins of Nevada. The 12v merely kept the fridge closer to the temperature it was when we started driving (after turning off the propane) and the 12v charge more or less maintained where it was before driving and recharging (using just the 4 idiot red lights provided.) In other words, all of the 12v charging while driving went to the fridge while the temperature slowly climbed.

Even the propane was struggling to keep the temps in the safe zone while parked in the shade during the low to mid-90s afternoons... often getting up to 40-42. It was also a hassle finding a semi-level spot since none of them seemed to be in the shade of course! Once night came the propane did its thing to get the fridge to a proper temp.

We drove up to FWC in Woodland today for some spare turnbuckles and a conversation with Aaron of service department. He was very helpful in making us understand that the fridge basically performed as designed. He also thought that the current design of the Dometic 3-way would support driving the vehicle with the propane on (except when refueling at gas stations of course.) I will do some research on how comfortable I am with that but it should solve some of our fridge temp problems. He also thought a fan in the upper vent cabinet would be helpful. I might try installing that myself :-} as FWC wanted a bunch of money for that option post-build. It should probably be a standard IMHO.

 

[DrJ]

I've been a big proponent for the fridge fans for quite a while. The 3 way fridge is for sure under vented in the FWC setup. Even compressor fridges benefit from venting. Just put a thermometer up in the top of that back compartment of your fridge and you will likely see temperatures 20-40 degrees higher that outside. Really tough to cool your food fighting that.