How to determine fair price for buying used FWC/truck combo

[Doff]

Hi all

We are buying a FWC/truck combo from a coworker. We want to agree on a fair price for both of us. Just not sure how to figure out what that price is. Wondering if anyone has any input?

The truck is a 2010 F150 4x4 supercrew with about 45,000 miles on it. The truck has about all the options including Sony Navigation System, preferred equipment package, Fx4 luxury package and several other options. They also have after market options including 6" suspension lift with airbags, 20" wheels and 35" tires, tubular side bars, front bumper with winch and light bar. I was told the aftermarket stuff is the "RBP Rolling Big Power Package" The truck is in great condition and very clean. it has rarely been taken off road.

The FWC was built and purchased in 2015. Hawk model with front dinet. it has 160W solar, 2-way 80L fridge, furnace, heated outdoor shower, power roof vent, 8ft side awning,, yakima roof rack bars, thermal package, 2nd battery, Silver Spur Package. The camper is also super clean and well maintained.

We want to figure out a fair price for both parties. Anyone have input or suggested price? I can post pictures later today.

THANKS

 

[larryqp]

FWCs really hold their value, they don't really depreciate like other campers, add to that the long wait for a new FWC and you will find that used late model FWCs sell for close to what the person probably has invested in the unit. I would suggest you go to the FWC website and build the same unit online. That will show you what it would cost to buy one new. Then ask your co-worker what he has invested in it. Also, do a search on this forum for similar units recently sold.

If this camper is what you want and it is in almost new shape, I think it is probably worth close to what the co-worked has invested, minus any repairs needed, or cosmetic damage, because the co-worker could probably get that value on the open market, sans cover-19 issues.

As far as the truck goes, I think that is best done with online searches, its 10 years old, there are lots of used trucks on the market and some great deals and financing with new trucks. You may want to consider buying a new truck unless you get a really good deal on this truck.

Good luck

 

[BBZ]

Personally, I wouldn't want to deal with a truck with a 6 inch lift.. its simply overkill.. So many things to consider there, did they change gearing to accommodate the bigger tires.. What type of MPG would a truck like that get? Hopefully you would never have to unload the camper because I am not sure the jacks would even go that high??

The FWC is worth a lot.. they really hold their value.. although I am seeing more for sale with the current state of the economy..

 

[rando]

This is not an entirely straightforward thing to do.

As for the camper, it is probably worth ~$20K. The best metric is what similar campers are selling for, unfortunately there are not a huge number of comparison points, but here are a couple:
https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/19209-sold-2015-fwc-hawk-side-dinette-on-2016-toyota-tundra-trd-pro/?hl=%2Bhawk+%2Bfront+%2Bdinette
https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/19715-four-wheel-hawk-for-sale-loaded-ready-to-boondocks/
https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/19627-for-sale-2017-fwc-hawk/

These campers don't change all that much year to year, so age is not as important as condition. I imagine there will be a lot fewer buyers and more of these on the market in the next few months, so that is in your favor.

As for the truck, I would skip this one. A 6" lift, 20" rims and tubular side bars are all thing you would NOT want on this setup. They certainly don't add any value. If you were to buy it, I would take whatever the bluebook/FMV/comps for an un-molested truck and go from there.

 

[Doff]

Thanks for the input so far. We are not 100% stoked on the truck. But, I think we can get a great deal for the whole set up. Our thoughts being, we can ride the truck into the ground and then put the camper onto a new truck. The seller is thinking of selling it for $45-$48K. I have some pictures of the set up I want to share...but....I don't know how to load them onto here. (Im not a very techy person). Any help on how to load the pictures?

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Look at the pinned threads in the support forum for tips about loading photos

Thanks for the input so far. We are not 100% stoked on the truck. But, I think we can get a great deal for the whole set up. Our thoughts being, we can ride the truck into the ground and then put the camper onto a new truck. The seller is thinking of selling it for $45-$48K. I have some pictures of the set up I want to share...but....I don't know how to load them onto here. (Im not a very techy person). Any help on how to load the pictures?

 

[rando]

My non-expert feeling is that is significantly too high, and is certainly not a screaming deal. I am no expert on F-150s, but the book on the truck is about $19,000 in very good condition with the actual (low) miles. That puts the camper at $26 - $29K, which is too much for a 5 year old slide in.

Here is a Granby front dinette, with slightly fewer options, but newer, that apparently sold for $18K:
https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/19472-2018-grandby-for-sale-sold/

 

[Wildcat]

Another non-expert opinion. My observations and thoughts... as I used to watch the ads for 4 wheel campers and check them out if within a reasonable distance from home...

Most truck/rig combinations will sell for less than the individual items. I see this frequently, as the buyer has to make a decision about whether they want or like the camper and the truck. Also, it seems that the sellers of these rigs usually don't want the hassle of having sold either the camper or the truck and then try to find a buyer for the other. The sellers also realize they are taking a discount for selling the combo as they see it as a cost/benefit decision (one sale, no removing the camper, potential storage of camper, etc).

That said, the potential buyer has to assess whether it meets their needs. I think most truck/camper combos come onto the radar screen of potential buyers because they are already looking for that particular camper (4wheel, Northstar, etc) and just happened to see the ad for the combined unit. Unless the truck is exactly what the buyer wants, then there's always a purchasing hesitation (maybe I'll get it if the price is right).

All that gets factored into the ultimate selling price of the rig. Many potential buyers of campers already have a truck, so I think there's a stronger market for camper-only. On the other hand, if the price is right, it's a quick way for the buyer to purchase a ready-to-use rig. There's no hassle for trying to mount the camper to your truck (will it fit correctly, or does the bottom need to be raised to get it higher than the bed?). And there's a cost of installing a camper on a rig (the tie-downs, installation fees, maybe stronger suspension, air bags, maybe new tires, etc).

One final note... as a truck owner for the past 30 years, I would never buy a rig with a 6-inch lift. Too many issues with drive train alignment, suspension, emergency handling characteristics, etc. I have found a one to three inch lift can be managed with the appropriate after-market parts. Anything beyond that is questionable at best.

So my quick thoughts on the particular rig you are looking at is to figure the price of the truck and camper separately and then discount the truck significantly. After-market lifts and add-ons hold very little value in the used truck market. It doesn't matter how much the original owner spent for them. The original owner has to figure that he will get about 10 cents for every dollar of add-on. However the base truck can be easily priced on Edmunds, Kelly, etc.

I know it's hard to go to a friend with a low offer and try not insult them. Perhaps the friend needs to try selling it himself first to get a reality check.

 

[pvstoy]

Personally, I wouldn't want to deal with a truck with a 6 inch lift.. its simply overkill.. So many things to consider there, did they change gearing to accommodate the bigger tires.. What type of MPG would a truck like that get? Hopefully you would never have to unload the camper because I am not sure the jacks would even go that high??

As for the truck, I would skip this one. A 6" lift, 20" rims and tubular side bars are all thing you would NOT want on this setup. They certainly don't add any value. If you were to buy it, I would take whatever the bluebook/FMV/comps for an un-molested truck and go from there.

One final note... as a truck owner for the past 30 years, I would never buy a rig with a 6-inch lift. Too many issues with drive train alignment, suspension, emergency handling characteristics, etc. I have found a one to three inch lift can be managed with the appropriate after-market parts. Anything beyond that is questionable at best.

.
There is a theme going on...

A 6 inch lift I would stay away and not trust the longevity of the replacement products or what effects it has on wear and tear acceleration. Not to mention how safe is it? Is it a good quality aftermarket system? If I have a accident how it ties into the liability and working with the insurance companies.

Just a opinion... one could look at a new truck or one that is near stock as a cost comparison.

 

[rando]

Here is another data point - a recently sold Tacoma/fully optioned FWC. It listed at $48K and sold quickly, so probably well priced. The Tacoma has a private party blue book value about $10K over the F150, which would seem to suggest that $38K may be a more reasonable price.....

 

[Doff]

Ya, definitely, getting the theme here. Thats a bummer, I thought I was a nice setup. But everything ya'll are saying makes sense. Anyway...I think I got the picture thing figured out, so I uploaded some photos of the rig. Who knows... maybe seeing it will change some peoples minds haha. I didn't get any shots of the inside of the camper because....well its tough to get pictures of the inside of a FWC.

 

[BBZ]

Kelly Blue Book has that truck for private party at 17k-21k..without the upgrades (which essentially are downgrades)... I think the price is very high considering my 14 F150 is around the same with 78k, 6.5 bed XLT and 5.0 motor (5.4 is a known problem).. even if it was worth 17k, which it is not, and the camper worth 20k.. that makes 37k.. Dude is crazy to think he will get more, just preying on your hope of getting a rig..

 

[esimmers]

Lots of good advice here. Of course I'm biased because I have a heavily-optioned 2009 Hawk listed here on the forum for sale. Nevertheless, I agree that, given how much a new FWC costs, a used camper in excellent shape is probably worth around what the owner has invested in it.

On the other hand, truck values (as others have said) can be had easily from comparable sales. Lifts and other aftermarket products aren't worth that much on the used truck market and may actually be a detriment because of the cost to remove them to return the truck to stock or near-stock configuration for the intended purpose. And, considering radical changes like 6-inch lifts may actually have caused damaged to the rig, one needs to be very careful.

A good comparison is the truck that the owner paid $2000 for a beautiful graphic of his girlfriend on one side of the bed and another of his dog on the passenger side. You as a buyer don't want either so the truck value is actually less than normal because of the expense involved in removing the graphics. If your buddy doesn't understand that, then you'd better shop elsewhere because friendships are more valuable that hardware. In my opinion, of course.

Good luck.

Ed

 

[Wildcat]

Even though my prior post and all the other posts have questioned the value of the truck and the resulting asking price of the combined rig, I will reiterate that there is some value in having a ready-to-go rig in your driveway. Many of the people on this forum who purchased their camper from a prior owner have spent some time and resources in tracking down their purchase and then getting their truck ready to carry it (and I include myself in that group). Since finding a good condition unit may involve travel time for viewing/inspection, negotiation, and related transaction costs, you'll have to weigh the benefit vs costs of buying from somebody you know. Worst case it will be a learning experience and maybe overpaying by an extra $5k (his $43k vs a more reasonable $35-38k) won't be a big deal if you own the truck for several years before upgrading it. Who knows, maybe after owning the hawk you might want to get more room in a granby and decide to sell the whole rig. I'm not sure if you had your heart set on buying a 4wheel camper before this deal came to your attention. This rig could be a good intro for you, if you can reach an acceptable price with your co-worker.

 

[Wildcat]

Doff, from your prior few posts on this forum it looks like you are an experienced truck camper owner from having previously owned a ranger, a hawk, a new ATC. What's prompting you to consider this rig vs your ATC that you mentioned in your November post?

 

[rando]

The photos definitely show a nicely maintained truck and camper. However, that doesn't make up for the price being about $10K high. Probably best just to walk away from this, it seems unlikely you would have a meeting of the minds without hurting some feelings, which is an added factor in a transaction between acquaintances. With the current market conditions, there is likely to be a number of competitively priced toys coming on the market in the next few months.

 

[Pax2525]

Walk away from that deal, its not worth it. Yes the truck has low miles but its not even the proper bed length. Its the 5.4L engine which is hit or miss. Some are amazing some people have horror stories. Dont even get me started on the 6" lift.....o boy

You can find a newer truck for the price he wants. The only catch is the fact its turn key and he has a camper to sell.

This is not a deal, actually its a terrible purchase for 45K-48K

I know its hard but walk away from this deal, as this is no deal and the owner is asking waaaay too much

 

[BBZ]

Walk away from that deal, its not worth it. Yes the truck has low miles but its not even the proper bed length. Its the 5.4L engine which is hit or miss. Some are amazing some people have horror stories. Dont even get me started on the 6" lift.....o boy

You can find a newer truck for the price he wants. The only catch is the fact its turn key and he has a camper to sell.

This is not a deal, actually its a terrible purchase for 45K-48K

I know its hard but walk away from this deal, as this is no deal and the owner is asking waaaay too much

Completely agree.. its a 10 year old truck, sure the miles are low, but its a 10 year old truck.. with an engine know for issues..

I would say, go find a truck (never been a better time to buy if you are in a good position).. and then go find a camper, lots for sale right now in comparison to better economical times...